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Forged lowers

49 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi All,

I posted this in the General Discussions.  I probably should have posted it here.  Hope that's OK!  Thanks

_____________

Hi All,

As some of you know, I have a small company that makes AR15 - 80% lowers. I want to also offer 308 lower receivers (80%’ers)  Although I am a new member here, I have already  had the pleasure of talking to a couple of you about 308 lowers.  I am posting this tonight in hopes of getting feedback from any of you that care to respond.

Objective:

1) I want to offer a 308 (AR style)  80% lower in a forging, much like a standard AR15 forged lower.

2) I want the price to be close to  the AR15 line of lowers. ($120-$140)

3) I want it to be DPMS compatible.

4) I want it forged and heat treated- 7075- T6 aluminum.

5) I want it readily available.

6) I can not make it an Armalite AR10 exact copy (nor do I want to).

I have been talking to a forging company about this project.  They are willing to produce the necessary tooling (forging molds) and supply me with as many as I might need. They have requested of me that I supply them with the CAD drawings needed to make the molds. I can get my hands on a few lowers that I can spec out and produce the needed CAD drawings.

My question for all of you:

1) Am I correct in  my thinking that these should be DPMS compatible?  If so, why. (or why not?) 

2) If it is DPMS compatible, that opens doors to other upper manufactures, doesn’t it?

3) Will the same 80% 308 lower be suitable of the SR-308 uppers

4) Do you know of other upper “kits” that could work with this lower?

5) Are there specific features that you would like to see on a 308 lower? If so, I'd love to hear your ideas.  This is the time to include cool features.

Any suggestions or ideas will really be appreciated. 

Thanks all and I look forward to your feedback.

Best regards,

Larry Myers

Colfax Tactical

http://www.colfaxtactical.com

530-346-6494

Email: sales@colfaxtactical.com

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Posted

Hi Larry,

It seems that most of the manufactures who have decided to build 308AR lowers/uppers have went the DPMS type route, the SR25 type mags are a better choice for the AR type rifles, that mag is what Stoner designed for it.

One thing that I dont find appealing about the DPMS lowers is the shelf that sits just above the fire control section of the receiver, I know its there because of the upper contour of the DPMS upper.

I have seen more and more manufactures omitting this shelf, but only when they are also making an upper that matches there lowers.

I dont know how much could be dont about this short of you making your own uppers as well, I think you would be on the right track if you did...........   

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Posted

Hi Metamole

I aggree.  I will have to wait until I revieve our first batch of forged lowers to really evaluate what I might (or might not) be able to do about it.

We are hoping to receive our first samples in about a month.  I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,

Larry

Colfax Tactical

http://www.colfaxtactical.com

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Posted

Hi All

Although it has taken many months to finally receive our first forgings, they are finally here.  These are DPMS compatible, 308-7075-T6 forgings.

We can now go to work making them into 80% lowers. I’ll keep you all posted on the progress.  Although we do not have a price yet, my goal is the $139-$159 price range, but please do not hold me to that.  It is only a goal!    Once the 80% design work is done, we will design a jig as well.

You can see the raw forgings on our web site if interested.

Thanks all and we look forward to your suggestions.

Larry Myers

Colfax Tactical

http://www.colfaxtactical.com

530-613-3994 (new phone number)

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Posted

Hey Larry PM me for my email if you want to get content and pictures on the main site.

Drew

Hi All

Although it has taken many months to finally receive our first forgings, they are finally here.  These are DPMS compatible, 308-7075-T6 forgings.

We can now go to work making them into 80% lowers. I’ll keep you all posted on the progress.  Although we do not have a price yet, my goal is the $139-$159 price range, but please do not hold me to that.  It is only a goal!    Once the 80% design work is done, we will design a jig as well.

You can see the raw forgings on our web site if interested.

Thanks all and we look forward to your suggestions.

Larry Myers

Colfax Tactical

http://www.colfaxtactical.com

530-613-3994 (new phone number)

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Posted

Larry, I like the design - very good job.  I'd definitely be happy picking a couple of these up.

Raw%20AR10%20Lowers.jpg

.308 forging and AR15 forging comparo:

308%20and%20AR15.jpg

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Posted

Larry,

Will these be available in raw forging form??

John

NRA Life Member 1976

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Posted

Hi John

Thanks for your interest. !

Yes, I will make 0% raw forgings available once I am purchasing them in large quantities.  My initial order was for less than 50 in order that I complete all of the necessary R&D.  Once I have confirmed that all is well and start ordering in large quantities, I will indeed make them available.  I’ll have a better understanding of prices then.  The shipping costs really play into the retail cost of a raw forging.  I expect that the retail cost will be around $30, but please do not hold me to that!  Thanks

Larry

Colfax Tactical

http://www.colfaxtactical.com

530-613-3994

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Posted

Larry,

I recently tried to add a better bolt release to my DPMS 308.  No one make a tac style release the fits the contours of the 308 lower. It should be a simple machining process to open the spot where the upper portion ot the bolt release goes to allow a DPMS 223 tactical release to fit.  I had a local gunsmith modify one (reshape teh upper pad) and it works great on my 308.  Just a thought.

Gregg

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Posted

I moved this thread to the Colfax board now that we have one.  <thumbsup>

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Posted

Hi Greg

I'll look into that as time and R&D allows.  Thank you.

Larry

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Posted

Hi Larry,

Any idea yet on a time frame for the 308 forgings? I'm currently working on an AR-10, but I am going to need a winter project and would like to line up something...

Thanks much.........

Johnny V

NRA Life Member 1976

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Posted

Hi Johnny V

Believe it or not, we are actually working on them. The forgings finally arrived after months of delays.  I am currently developing the machine code to turn them into 80% ers.

I should know more in a month or so.

Thanks

Larry

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Posted

So no integral trigger guards on these lowers, right?  Where I'm living I'd pretty much need a larger-sized trigger guard at minimum, if not the ability to fold the trigger guard out of the way to use with mittens.

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Posted

You should make a fail-safe hand carving kit for these for those who don't have their own mills. Will broadly open up your customer base and give you a personal holding in the market.

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Posted

You should make a fail-safe hand carving kit for these for those who don't have their own mills. Will broadly open up your customer base and give you a personal holding in the market.

There are two companies, that I know of, that already have these available - probably cross right over to these receivers.  <thumbsup>

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Posted

I've never understood why the .308 lowers have been so much more expensive than their 5.56/.223 little brothers.  I always assumed it's a supply/demand thing.

Anyway, I finished up a couple TM10 billet lowers after an extensive search for forged DPMS style 80% lowers.

If you could come up with forged DPMS style .308 lowers near the AR15 forged lower cost, you will have accomplished something that hasn't been done before.

I'd order some from ya!

Oz

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Posted

.308 lower receivers ARE more complex and probably start from a billet nearly twice as large as that of the 5.56 lowers. This definitely means a hike up in price, but I don't see any real reason why it should be 3x as much as your average 5.56 lower.

I DO think the price of .308s is a matter of supply and demand, but I have also noticed that the firearm industry is often not living in the real world when it comes to customer preferences. In this case, that means I get the impression that few are considering that the steep price might be the main reason why the demand is as small as it is. Ever since .308 prices have been growing closer to .223 prices, demand and sales have gone through the roof. I think it was something like 7 years ago that .308 ARs cost at least $1500 and usually over $2000 and were VERY limited in availability. Now you can get them for as little as $800 despite the rise in firearm costs over the last 7 years and now .308 ARs are starting to become common place.

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Posted

MaDuce,

I agree with everything -except about the .308 lowers being more complex.  They use the exact same FCG/LPK's except for the bolt release, pivot and take-down pins.  Some have a built in trigger guard I suppose... They do use a bit more aluminum.  Maybe 25%?  And you do make a more chips when machining, so there will be more machine time and tool wear.  Wild guess, I'd give it a 25% cost difference just looking at that.

I was thinking about this more last night and I bet the real difference is in economy of scale.  If you price a 10,000 piece run of AR-15 forged lowers VS a 1000 piece run, the 1000 piece run is going to be WAY more expensive from the foundry.  Until .308 lowers are being purchased in the quantities that AR-15 lowers are being purchased, they're going to cost more.  Thankfully, you're also right that .308 AR's are much more popular.  I think quantities are going up, so prices are going down.

Oz

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Posted

That's pretty much it. Though you missed one detail about the .308 receiver machining. There's a protrusion that runs along the sides of the top of the upper receiver that isn't found on the AR-15 receivers. Not a big deal, but it all comes down to my point that; while a LITTLE more complex and expensive, I see no reason apart from economics to justify a x3 price increase over AR-15 receivers. You seam to already be on that same page from what I gather.

BTW.

I don't think the aluminum is 25% more, at least at the start. The .454 Casull is only a few mm longer then a .357 Magnum and only about 9% of an inch wider. Put the two together and you have something that almost is or is twice the size in terms of bulk. The finished LR-308/AR-10 receiver may only be 20-25 % more aluminum, but the billet it's carved out of is probably close to double that of the billet the AR-15 receiver is machined out of.

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Posted

Yeah, if you're talking billet, true.  I guess I was looking to the forgings which are more efficient in their material use.

I just hope Colfax can do a big run of forged .308 lowers.  I'd like to stock up.  I know their website says Mid-October before they have anything new to say.  Colfax hasn't updated this thread in a looooong time. (July 26th.)

Oz

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Posted

I just hope Colfax can do a big run of forged .308 lowers.  I'd like to stock up.  I know their website says Mid-October before they have anything new to say.  Colfax hasn't updated this thread in a looooong time. (July 26th.)

Just remember this. Everyone gets antzy about this stuff and impatient, while manufacturers often struggle between that demand and the maintenance of quality and performance. I've designed and built my own guns before and can tell you that it's a huge challenge. It's allot like video game design. Some may seam simple and straight forward, but if you look at what it takes to design them, work out the bugs etc., it takes an ocean of work to accomplish and get it right. The same is true with firearm design.

I love everyone's optimism, but as a realist, I won't be surprised if the laws of nature win over our optimism and the receivers take longer then expected. In the world of firearm mechanics, you don't really know for sure until you're done. Until the receivers start shipping, I'll be ready for and expecting something to come up and put things off a bit. That's just how it works.

That all said, I'm really looking forward to getting one and intend to do so, assuming something else doesn't come my way first.

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Posted

Still nothing?  :(

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Posted

Bueller.jpg

Hello?  Beuller?

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Posted

Probably safe to call this one.  Time of death... now.  That's too bad.

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