98Z5V Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 3 hours ago, jtallen83 said: I'm not going to bother my LGS with it. I'll keep after IMI for all the good it will do. I'll continue to post reviews on forums to warn others. Already unsubscribed to midway emails, they will not see a dime of my money. I replied to the email letting them know I was not ignorant of the regulations and had returned faulty ammo to reputable dealers on two separate occasions. I'll be curious to see if they post my review of the ammo with pictures. Sounds like it's time to track down the personal email of Larry Potterfield, himself. Forward the thus-far info to him, and get in his a$s a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) That was TOO EASY. Even got you a phone number... larrypotterfield@midwayusa.com JT, I might also explain to Mr.Potterfield who your employer is... Edited July 4, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 2 hours ago, jtallen83 said: I replied to the email letting them know I was not ignorant of the regulations and had returned faulty ammo to reputable dealers on two separate occasions. I'll be curious to see if they post my review of the ammo with pictures. Now I'm curious if the two previous occasions you returned ammo was something the sellers simply decided to do on their own without regards to legality or if there actually is a loophole somewhere in the DOT code (that's IF this DOT code reason isn't a bunch of nonsense) ... ??? Let us know if your comments are posted. We'll be out and about tomorrow and if I run in to a dealer I know I'll ask. I've all but stopped dealing with Midway since about the past 2 years. I ordered some soft cases from them once and it turned out they were 2-rifle cases however they weren't designated as such on the website. I looked at returning them but since I bought them on sale it cost almost as much as the purchase price to return them at my own expense. They said they would review the "circumstances" before they would reimburse me since they did not have the proper replacements available at the sale price of the wrong stuff they shipped me. The person I was corresponding with seemed like a real young female with a smartass attitude so I just blew it off. I cannot think of anything I've bought from them since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: That was TOO EASY. Even got you a phone number... larrypotterfield@midwayusa.com Sent one to larry as soon as I read the response from Rebecca..........might have to call at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 48 minutes ago, Sisco said: Won't be buying IMI products or from Midway, if this is the way they deal with things. Absolutely not. You see this stuff is dangerous beyond a normal hazard for ammo. This is the kind of stuff that you get squib loads from that results in barrels blowing up on gun ranges and hurting other folks around the shooter and/or hurting someone when they're out hunting in a remote place that is hard for EMT(s), etc., to get to easily. Midway needs to pull ALL that crap until something can be determined and resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, GRA said: Now I'm curious if the two previous occasions you returned ammo was something the sellers simply decided to do on their own without regards to legality or if there actually is a loophole somewhere in the DOT code (that's IF this DOT code reason isn't a bunch of nonsense) ... ??? That DOT line is crap! I've shipped ammo and had tens of thousands of rounds shipped to me. The rule is it has to go ground and has to be properly marked. Mass Ammo exchanged some Federal M1A ammo due to excessive case dents, they sent M118 LR back to me in exchange. I shipped some crappy 175 gr 308 back to Freedom munitions due to poor accuracy and many cases not fitting a case gauge, they credited my account and shipped me the ammo I selected. Freedom was the actual manufacturer but MassAmmo is just a resale outfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 1 minute ago, jtallen83 said: That DOT line is crap! I've shipped ammo and had tens of thousands of rounds shipped to me. The rule is it has to go ground and has to be properly marked. Mass Ammo exchanged some Federal M1A ammo due to excessive case dents, they sent M118 LR back to me in exchange. I shipped some crappy 175 gr 308 back to Freedom munitions due to poor accuracy and many cases not fitting a case gauge, they credited my account and shipped me the ammo I selected. Freedom was the actual manufacturer but MassAmmo is just a resale outfit. That's good to know. I've never returned (shipped) any ammo but I'm sure it stands to happen eventually. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Found some before pictures of the bolt, granted this is before any use; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: Found some before pictures of the bolt, granted this is before any use; What does the firing pin and extractor look like? Kind of looks like the ejector is a bit mushroomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Just now, GRA said: What does the firing pin and extractor look like? Kind of looks like the ejector is a bit mushroomed. They are fine, the ejector is an Armalite replacement as the NIB ejector picked up brass and caused it to hang up, Dave sent me replacements I just never got around to putting an NIB back in it. Mushroom is just an optical illusion as the sides of the ejector are polished bright and the top comes with a slight radius on the edges. Ran 90 rounds of LC M193 through it this morning as fast as I could, no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) I've got a good friend that holds the FFL for a LGS. I have to go see him on Wednesday. I'll pull him to the side and see what he says. He may even have some information on Midway and how to handle them. Will get back with you as soon as I speak with him. Edited July 4, 2017 by GRA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Just got an email from a representative of IMI, this was not connected to Midway but contacting IMI from a google search; Dear Mr. Allen, My friends at IMI Systems of Israel referred your complaint to me. I have worked with IMI for many years and manage their US customer relations. If you will send me the ammo you have remaining, along with a copy of your original purchase receipt, I will either refund you for the full amount of the purchase or replace the M193 with ammo from a different production lot. The choice is yours. I will also send you a check to cover the cost of shipping the ammo to: Phoenix Defense Group 3013 Old Orchard Lane Parrish, FL 34219 We apologize for the problems you experienced. Sincere regards, Mike L Michael Swingley Phoenix Defense Group, LLC +1-727-455-0761 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Sounds positive. At least you got a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 I'm wondering if replacement ammo would be a good idea? At least you got a favorable response. I sure as hell won't be buying ammo from Midway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 1 hour ago, GRA said: I'm wondering if replacement ammo would be a good idea? At least you got a favorable response. I sure as hell won't be buying ammo from Midway. I'm tempted to try some. There are lots of good reviews out there so it isn't all bad stuff, hopefully they have a confirmed good lot to ship out. When it comes down to it at the price I paid it would be hard to replace the stuff with factory ammo for the same money. If it is bad I'll have to start the process over again......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 I buy all my range ammo at https://www.targetsportsusa.com They always have cases of 556 at $300 shipped. All cases ship free. Recent sales had wolf gold, magtech, and pmc bronze at that price. The mag and pmc came in an ammo can. I had a buddy buy some wolf from them that was out of spec and no questions they sent a return label for the remainder and his choice of a new case of magtech or a smaller (equal value) case of federal to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 JT, sounds like they need that stuff back - they need all that you have remaining so they can pull it down and find out what's messed up. That's good business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 1 hour ago, blue109 said: I buy all my range ammo at https://www.targetsportsusa.com They always have cases of 556 at $300 shipped. All cases ship free. Recent sales had wolf gold, magtech, and pmc bronze at that price. The mag and pmc came in an ammo can. I had a buddy buy some wolf from them that was out of spec and no questions they sent a return label for the remainder and his choice of a new case of magtech or a smaller (equal value) case of federal to replace it. I've bought some from them also and yes they are a very professional company. I haven't bought that much from them but everything I have bought has been very well packaged and never a loose round in the box. I've never had to return any ammo so far but like everyone else Im sure my luck will eventually run out. A couple of years ago I stumbled on the IMI military-grade M193 rounds and noticed they were cheaper but had good specs. I bought about 100 rounds to try them and suffered no problems so I went ahead and ordered a 500 round case. I bought the case for stash but now that this has happened I'm going to break the case open and try some to see what happens. Right now PSA is selling the 55 grain 5.56 for a little over $5 per box but I don't think they are actually the XM/M193(s). I think JT just might've received a very bad lot of them but the problems he's had is quite dangerous so I hope if he tries for some more of the same they turn out better. Good to know somebody will make good on this problem. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. It will be even better if the company that takes this back does an eval and then follows up with what they've found. They definitely need to recall it all. Too many ambulance-chasing lawyers out there just itching to find a deep pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 2 hours ago, blue109 said: I buy all my range ammo at https://www.targetsportsusa.com They always have cases of 556 at $300 shipped. All cases ship free. Recent sales had wolf gold, magtech, and pmc bronze at that price. The mag and pmc came in an ammo can. I had a buddy buy some wolf from them that was out of spec and no questions they sent a return label for the remainder and his choice of a new case of magtech or a smaller (equal value) case of federal to replace it. I buy lots of 9mm and 45 ACP from Target. I'm a big fan of LC NATO marked ammo for 5.56 and haven't been able to get that from them for the same price as a couple others. I may be getting theirs in the future though, MassAmmo no longer has those $135 cans of M193. Been buying lots of Speer Gold Dot from PSA lately, a little pricier than regular 5.56 but a damn good round in any of the weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 2 hours ago, 98Z5V said: JT, sounds like they need that stuff back - they need all that you have remaining so they can pull it down and find out what's messed up. That's good business. I'm also impressed they offered to replace all of it, even what I have shot. So far so good, I told them to send the replacement ammo, won't get a chance to run it till maybe Labor Day though, work has me tied up till then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 So, IMI = win. Midway = FAIL. Step up, Larry Potterfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Send it in for replacement & that would include all that you shot ! IMI is a very good company , all ammo makers sooner or later have bad lots . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 7/3/2017 at 10:52 AM, jtallen83 said: Midway punted, sent me a link to IWI. I have already emailed them, I'm starting to see this go nowhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) I went to see if your review was on Midway's site but I don't see it. There were several other people who reported blown primers in the 55gr ammo. They all seem to be in the last couple of months. Here is a review one guy posted. Looks like quality control issues By Mike from Minnesota About Me Enthusiast See all my reviews I am also having some pressure issues with this batch. After seeing all the reviews and having some issues myself, I did some basic testing. My lot is #00218/G and after blowing a few primers and seeing other obvious signs of high pressure (primer cratering, witness marks on case left by the ejector hole in bolt and extreme "scrubbing" of head stamps), set up the chronograph. On several 20 round strings, the extreme spread was 119 to 140 fps. I checked each round after firing and found that the rounds that had blown primers (or gas leakage due to stretched primer pockets - primers fell out after tapping the case on a bench) were running about 80fps faster than the average of rounds that did not show issues. After editing strings taking out the 2-3 hot rounds, the strings ran pretty consistent with an average velocity of 3168fps with extreme spread in strings of 39 to 53fps, which is typical out of this rifle - a stock 5.56x45 M&P15. The cartridges with blown primers were all running around 3240fps with one as high as 3280fps. Some 30 round boxes had no issues, while others had two or three of these "hot" rounds. There is no way to tell which ones are bad until you drop the hammer. This seems like an obvious quality control issue. I like IMI ammo and have been very happy with it up to this point. While they do group quite well, I can't recommend this ammunition until this issue is worked out - at least not this lot number. Edited July 5, 2017 by Armed Eye Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Glad to see they are posting these now, too late for me but at least others have a chance to pass on it. Seems like the right thing for Midway to do is pull the whole lot of it off the site. Noticed his lot was one number from mine so it isn't just a one lot issue. Edited July 5, 2017 by jtallen83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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