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2018 308AR.com Fall Shoot Info


Matt.Cross
Message added by Matt.Cross

Shoot dates are now confirmed.

Oct. 18th-21st 

Can't wait to see you there!

 

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I'll try to get ahead of this a little bit, for planning purposes.  I'll be running Long Range and High Angle (two separate events, two separate days).  I'm planning for this to be a true 4-day event, overall.  Others will be running the short course events, and medium range events (out to 660 yards max). If you can attend all 4 days, that's great. 

On Long Range day, we will physically be in a different location, than "normal camp."  We will truck over there, with gear.  All the short course and medium range can go on without interruption at the base location, in conjunction with Long Range.  The Long Range location is not that far from base camp, but you wouldn't want to walk it, and haul your gear - you'll just get there tired, and that will affect your shooting.  So, we truck it.

For the Long Range event, you don't need anything specialized, besides gun/ammo/magnified optic, but you will need to know the performance of your ammo.  You need to know the ballistic coefficient of the projectile, muzzle velocity, weight of the projectile, etc.  You need the data on your ammo. You also need to know your scope.  It would be highly, highly preferrable that you bring a drop chart for your rifle/ammo combo with you, for each rifle that you want to shoot at longer distances.  You can make your own DOPE chart right here:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

The "Trajectory Simplified" chart linked above is more than sufficient for what you will be doing.

Since we're trucking over there, supplies and gear will not be an issue - we can pack whatever we'll need; that's not a concern.  This will be a daylight event, so we'll be back at base camp for dinner.

Now, High Angle day is different.  There are no trucks going anywhere up that hill.  This event will shut down much of the short course action, due to ricochets and what-not.  Not going through that again.  It will shut down the primary shooting for short course, up into the draw that we shot out to 450 yards (and night shoots) on previous events.  We're going UP that bigass hill, and shooting downwards. Primary firing direction will be due south, away from camp (which is due west from the hilltop firing positions). 

With that said, you need to be able to haul your gear (and your a$s) up that hill.  You will need a water-carrying capability. I recommend a 3L Camelbak, or similar product, at a minimum.  100oz bladder, minimum.  Carry more if you want, but water is 8lbs per gallon, for load carrying planning purposes.  Ammo weight is also a concern - AR15 30rd mags weigh 1lb, loaded.  .308 AR 20rd mags weigh 2lbs, loaded.  Rifle weight is, what it is.  If you're carrying multiple weapons, plan for that weight as well, both rifle and ammo.  You WILL need a sling on each weapon - you want to walk uphill basically hands-free of your weapon/s.  You will need gloves - you don't want to stop a fall, or a "tip" and catch your body weight on those sharpass rocks, with unprotected hands.  You will need a basic calculator.  Yes, you will.  I will walk you through rudimentary angle calculations and cosign information that will aid you in making angle shots - and I will give you that info prior to going uphill - you'll need to take that info, and use the calculator to compute your horizontal distance to target, over multiple targets.  You MUST be able to estimate range, through your scope.  Mil-dots, MOA, whatever. Cheat and use a laser range finder, quite alright - but that doesn't help you learn, that way.  It's like map reading and land navigation - any monkey can run a GPS, but if you can't truly read a map, use a protractor, and a compass - what good will your GPS be when the battery dies. You have nothing to fall back on...   Know how to estimate range with your magnified optic.  Your DOPE chart will also come in handy, from the day prior, on the Long Range event.

You will need sun protection - we'll be on that hill for a big chunk of the day. I recommend a boonie hat to keep the sun off your neck, and a long sleeved shirt to keep the sun off your arms - no matter what the ambient air temp is.

You will need the appropriate "carrying devices" to pack your gear and get it up the hill, be it a backpack, chest rig, ALICE gear, whatever.

I will be carrying limited Med Gear - gunshot wound/bleeding  items, bee stings/anaphylactic shock, wraps and SAM splints, and snakebite kit. Don't sweat the Med Gear, I got it.

Edited by 98Z5V
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For Attendees - Long Range and High Angle are not mandatory events.  In fact, we will certainly need people back at the base camp during the Long Range event.  Short course work can go on unabated during the Long Range work, and it provides people back at the base...

Reason for posting all that was for financial planning purposes, as the Fall Shoot is closer than we all think it is - we're 5 months out, right now.  I have multiple chest rigs configured for other things, but I just ended up getting a new setup specifically to haul my shiit up that hill for High Angle day - a dedicated rig for long distance shooting, and walking it all in.  For planning purposes, figuring out the money for stuff like this needs to be accounted for, in addition to everything else...

Edited by 98Z5V
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5 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

@Matt.Cross, any other input, from what you saw during the Spring Shoot?

Bring or arrange to have a shooting mat. Even if you don't employ the thing in the standard manner, it can make a weird-shaped rock into a very workable supported position.

You covered hydration and sunblock and hats, so that's good. 

If you wear contacts like I do, have adequate changes to cover each day you'll be there, as well as eye hydration and contact rinse. Eyes and ears are important, protect them at all costs. Wind and sand defy even very good eye protection, so have a way to get that cleared up ahead of time. There are precious few times that we go cold range, so have good hearing protection on your person at all times.

Bee & wasp spray would be nice to have on hand, not an issue in Spring but definitely a needed feature for Fall.

Temperature can fall off pretty steeply at night, pack something warm because the really interesting conversations happen in the coldest part of the night and you don't want to miss out.

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2 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

Temperature can fall off pretty steeply at night, pack something warm because the really interesting conversations happen in the coldest part of the night and you don't want to miss out.

:thumbup:  Ain't THAT the truth!   :laffs:

Bug-A-Salt x 2 will be present, with plenty of ammo.  I've gotten pretty damn good with these things, so one of the challenges will be:  Who can outshoot me with them...  :lmao:

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It's also impossible to have too much covered shelter, so if you have a portable open tent, they're terrific for providing shade for firing positions if you have them to spare.

A small, light, stowable backpack would be a great investment for Long Range day. You want to be able to be able to bring all the small gear you may need over the course of the day directly with you to the firing position without shutting down the firing line.

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I have a couple EZ-Ups, and have failed to bring them to previous events. They will be present for the Fall Shoot, this time.  Anyone else that has them should bring them as well. 

NOTE:  Bring the stakes/pegs for them, and we pound them into the ground.  Wind can kick up quick-like, and send an EZ-Up on an unexpected trip through the desert, faster than you can grab onto it - even when you're right under the damn thing...

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1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

For the Long Range event, you don't need anything specialized, besides gun/ammo/magnified optic, but you will need to know the performance of your ammo.  You need to know the ballistic coefficient of the projectile, muzzle velocity, weight of the projectile, etc.  You need the data on your ammo. You also need to know your scope.  It would be highly, highly preferrable that you bring a drop chart for your rifle/ammo combo with you, for each rifle that you want to shoot at longer distances.  You can make your own DOPE chart right here:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

Here's the primary reason I stated this, and why it's important for you to know.

From a technology standpoint, I stepped up for the Spring Shoot this year, and we all grew in "capabilities" for distance shooting.

MSRP:
$820 range finder ($1,490 with Kestrel Sportsman)

Street prices are closer to $700 for the rangefinder alone and $1,150 combined for the Kestrel bundle.

I didn't pay nearly that, not even close, when I found the range finder on sale for $299 (with a 30% back promo running from Bushnell at the time, making the thing $200) and $360 for the new and improved Kestrel 5700 Sportsman...  I killed this deal, and jumped all over it, and had it rushed here before SS18.  We didn't even know the capabilities of it yet during SS18, as it all arrived the day prior to the shoot...

 
 

 

506996779_KestrelandCONX.thumb.jpg.2ad62aa6983cd7dbe387b39273e9d3f2.jpg

Here's the last shot we computed through it, during SS18 - this was for the 12.5" Grendel, too.  10 mils of drop at 846 yards...   ?

P1060277.thumb.JPG.b58dbac5b39423be3658055281a1e4a1.JPG

If you know your ammo data, I can input it into this system, and we can make long distance shots MUCH easier. You need to find that data. You need to bring that data.  We will input that data.  This will shortcut everything on Long Range day, and aid in your shooting. It's not a "replacement" - but more of an aid in getting what's really going on with your gun/ammo.  We will perform "ballistic truing" on your hits, and come up with the real DOPE on your scope. 

If you know your load, and you can send me that data ahead of time, I can build your profile before you get here, and have it in the menu to select, on the Kestrel.  Ready to go.  This is an unreal advancement in capabilities, it's just nuts...

Here's a bitchin' article from Recoil Magazine on the technology available, and this combo is in it.  "Pull out your laptop and get your geek on..."  :laffs:

http://www.recoilweb.com/ballistics-in-the-palm-of-your-hand-109258.html

Edited by 98Z5V
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42 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Here's the last shot we computed through it, during SS18 - this was for the 12.5" Grendel, too.  10 mils of drop at 846 yards...   ?

P1060277.thumb.JPG.b58dbac5b39423be3658055281a1e4a1.JPG

 

Now, again, here's why I say you need to know your scope, and you need to be able to estimate range with it...  I'd set this same target up before, and shot this same target, from the same shooting position, before - before I had this equipment.  When Matt and I set this target up during SS18, we went out there, and I found the same holes that the t-posts were driven into previously.  Through my mil-dot scope, previously, I estimated this range at 833 yards - through the scope - and made hits with .308 Win and .300 Win Mag, based on that range estimation. That's pretty damn close to it's actual range, once I had the capability to use this laser range finder.

Range estimation is the biggest issue with long range shooting, and wind-calling is the second biggest issue.  There's a ton on the www about this, so study up prior to the Fall Shoot...

Edited by 98Z5V
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For comparison purposes, the .308 Win Rem700 AAC SD (20" barrel,1:10 twist) with 178gr Hornady HPBT handloaded accuracy ammo - was 9.0 mils at this distance.

The 18" Grendel was 8.2 mils of drop to get this distance.

The 12.5" Grendel is seen above... to get this distance, accurately, repeatedly.

Someone needs to pay me to sell Grendels.  I might have made my money back on Matt, though...   :thumbup::laffs::banana:

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7 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

:thumbup:  Ain't THAT the truth!   :laffs:

Bug-A-Salt x 2 will be present, with plenty of ammo.  I've gotten pretty damn good with these things, so one of the challenges will be:  Who can outshoot me with them...  :lmao:

Been using one on biting sand flies, mosquitos and bumble bees for four years. My best single day tally: 114 sand flies. All in a pile on my patio.

more fun: taking out bald face wasps with an electric tennis raquet bug zapper.

Edited by Sisco
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For the Long Distance day, here's something that needs to be considered, and I've been doing this for a long time now.  Ammo selection, for distance.  You need heavy projectiles (except for the MRAD, that thing doesn't care...  :banana:).  If you plan on shooting the Long Range day, get the right ammo for your rifle, and it'll be alot better on you, for that event.

A quote from this article:

http://www.recoilweb.com/preview-a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-target-78247.html

For example, a Sierra 175-grain HPBT bullet has a listed B.C. of 0.505. If we changed the bullet to a lighter Sierra 168-grain HPBT with a listed B.C. of 0.462, then it will drop 46 inches more at 1,000 yards because it is less efficient and therefore takes longer to reach the target. Even if both bullets leave the rifle at 2,600 feet per second, the more efficient bullet will be traveling over 100 feet per second faster at 1,000 yards.

I've been running Hornady 178gr HPBT projectiles for all my longer distance .308 Win loads for a few years now.  The sectional density is .268 and the G1 drag model BC is .530.  Way better than the Sierra 175gr HPBT listed above, at .505 G1 BC.  This load performs.

For the SS18 event, Matt and I loaded up 50 rounds of Hornady 195gr HPBT rounds in the .308 Win, and we didn't get to shoot them.  That's my .300 Win Mag projectile.  Found a load in the Hornady 10 Manual that listed this projectile at a 2.800" COAL, under the .308 Win loading section, so we figured "WHAT THE HELL!!!" We loaded them, but didn't shoot any of them - we were "overcome by events" out there.  The sectional density on that beast is .294 and the G1 BC on that 195-grainer is .550 - it'll be a better load, at distance, then even the 178s.  It will leave the barrel a little slower, but it will get to the longer target in a more efficient manner.

Get the correct ammo for the event, guys, if you plan on shooting it.  :thumbup:

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On 5/6/2018 at 11:56 AM, 98Z5V said:

I hate getting hit in the ear.  I lose it...  I'd rather have the primitive edged weapons battle...

I loose it if I get hit anywhere on the head. A couple of my patrolmen from back in the day could tell you stories!

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On 5/6/2018 at 12:56 PM, 98Z5V said:

I hate getting hit in the ear.  I lose it...  I'd rather have the primitive edged weapons battle...

I got punched in the top of the ear at road America breaking up a fight, hurt like a motherfucker trying to put a helmet on! 

Dude got kneed in the dick and tossed on the ground,  I knew the guy I was like mother fucker you just puched me in the damn ear?!?! 

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I have 400 rounds 175 gr Sierra Federal Gold Medal Match, 400 rds 175 gn SMK’s w 42 grns RL 15, and 300 rds M118LR, will that work? I will save the 600 rds 168 gn for shorter distances.

Edited by Sisco
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