PA10 GEN II, My Findings On Parts Info and Range Data (Log)

[mley1]

So, you fire one round, and the next won't fire. Did you take the upper off, and ensure the fire control group is functioning properly? Ensure the hammer spring is on correctly? If all is good there, and the trigger, disconnector, and hammer all function correctly, then look at your bolt carrier group. Sometimes, if there's heavy grease or lube in the firing pin channel it can slow the firing pin down so it doesn't strike the primer with enough force. Check to ensure the firing pin isn't damaged.  Also, check to ensure your bolt carrier group goes into battery properly. If it's out of battery a touch it will cause a light strike and not fire off the cartridge. If it's not one of those three things, I don't know what else to look at.

Another thing to look at will be your extractor. If your extractor is too tight it may not be slipping over the cartridge rim. This will cause the bcg to not fully be in battery, and thus not fire the rifle when the trigger is pulled. Early PA10's had this issue. The quick, easy, fix was to put an AR15 extractor spring in the bolt. The lighter spring allowed the extractor to slip over the case rim properly, thus allowing the bcg to go into battery, and subsequently fire off the round.

Those are the things I would be looking at in this situation. Take them one at a time, and eliminate them as the problem. And, yes, run it wet with oil. I use 5W20 Mobil one. Seems to work real well for me.

Edited May 6, 2018 by mley1

[GoodByNAair]

7 hours ago, Gopher said:

Sorry got busy at work and had family come in, so:

I went to the range and had issues but think its because I did not lube up the gun after every 3 shots and that's my bad, but all in all I love this gun.  So, I did use a mix of steel and brass, I know don't yell at me but I did not have a lot of choice.

 

Steel ammo: I would get 1 shot off and it would chamber new round but not fire, I would discharge that round and it would load new round and would not fire, then again discharge that round and chamber a new round and it would fire.  This would be a common theme as I would get 1 round off and have to discharge 3 others.

 

Brass:  I would get 1 shot off them chamber a new round and then a click and nothing, I would then have to discharge that round and chamber a new round then get a shot off.  It would not jam and it would load new round but then again a click and nothing.  I would have to discharge that round and then I could get a round off.

 

This seemed to be a theme, I would get a round off then either have to manually eject 1 or 2  before I could get next round off deepening on either brass or steel round.  I think I did not run it wet enough and will try to be better prepared for this next go.  I also want to say I did use cheap ammo and this was only for range use and will be using better ammo when it gets close to hunting season.

 

I had this happen for my 1st 2 rounds, needed the forward assist for full battery. I also ran the gun very wet. I also cleaned the gun before shooting it. I used 5w40 full syn motor oil. The B5 A4 and the PA10 both run well on the same oil! 

[GoodByNAair]

Short update. Shot 40 rounds of steel with not problems! Note I used a hexmag that's sold as a 10 round mag in a 20 round housing with a spacer. I took the spacer out and it worked fine as a 20round. Just something to note.

I am very busy right now, I plan to find some time and get more rounds and info out of the PA10.

Edited May 17, 2018 by GoodByNAair

[GoodByNAair]

 

Update, will not have time for a weeks to shoot. 

In the mail.

Primary Arms 4-14X44mm Riflescope - ACSS HUD DMR .308/ .223 Reticle

Aero Precision Ultralight 30mm Scope Mount, SPR, Anodized Black

JP Enterprises Enhanced Ignition Reliability Spring kit

Thanks optics planet for adding a $40 gift card to the order! 

[Bigfoot]

Great insight.Looking forward to more posts.Initial run of PA10 did not go as expected.Will start a new thread.

[GoodByNAair]

5 hours ago, Bigfoot said:

Great insight.Looking forward to more posts.Initial run of PA10 did not go as expected.Will start a new thread.

Thanks,

I wish I had more time, but I saw this coming with the way life has been going. That's why I called this a log of info. I can't wait to really get some  testing in with the new optic.  

[cheap-bastidge]

I just recently put together a gen 2 PA10, and I found the extractor was not working at all right out of the box, the springs were all gunked up, causing it to not allow it to go over the shell when closing into battery. I had to take it apart, clean all the gunk out, and lube the heck out of it and put it back together. THEN it worked as it should. I found it odd they choose to use 2 o-rings (stacked)  and 2 springs (1 inside the other) , never seen one done like that before. Once this was done it functioned perfectly when I took it to the range and fired it. If I had not done this, I am sure there would have been major malfunctions.

Edited May 23, 2018 by cheap-bastidge
adding a missed thought

[ARTrooper]

I ALWAYS clean a new part or weapon when I first get it. often times companies will put a lubricant on it that is not good for shooting. they just want to get the rifle to you without any rust or other issues. 

At the very least, always field strip and thoroughly clean. Then lubricate it yourself with something you know works before shooting it.

[cheap-bastidge]

6 hours ago, ARTrooper said:

I ALWAYS clean a new part or weapon when I first get it. often times companies will put a lubricant on it that is not good for shooting. they just want to get the rifle to you without any rust or other issues. 

At the very least, always field strip and thoroughly clean. Then lubricate it yourself with something you know works before shooting it.

That is part of my normal practice, which is why I was able to identify and correct the problems before attempting to fire the gun. That being said, there are a lot of folks out there who would just spray so lube in it, slap it on a lower and go to town with it, (or not, if it fails)

[GoodByNAair]

I did not pull my extractor apart but did field strip clean and lube everything. Other than my small errors mine seems to be working. still have a few things to test  and check.

[cheap-bastidge]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:09 PM, GoodByNAair said:

I did not pull my extractor apart but did field strip clean and lube everything. Other than my small errors mine seems to be working. still have a few things to test  and check.

I didn't have a choice on taking off the extractor, it was bound up tight, no movement at all.

[GoodByNAair]

Got 50 rounds trough the PA 4-14 x44mm ACSS optic zeroed at 50yr due to time again. Also tested the JP springs. 3 light strikes on steel WMC 100% reliable on brass. 

I would like to say that it is an AWESOME optic! 

[98Z5V]

  You'll get into it even more, as time goes on.  It's one hell of a smart reticle, that's for damn sure. And it works. 

[bfoosh006]

i'm gonna check and see if the 2 PSA BCG's in mine have 2 o'rings as well.
And I will check the various other ones... PSA dual ejector, AIM Surplus, Toolcraft

My first ones ran well enough that I don't remember checking .... but I am forgetful, Lol

[GoodByNAair]

Been super busy working on my house. will check my o'rings at some point will also get more rounds out at some point. After the house I have to do some car work too. one day i'll just shoot guns lol. 

[mley1]

On 5/30/2018 at 9:21 PM, GoodByNAair said:

Got 50 rounds trough the PA 4-14 x44mm ACSS optic zeroed at 50yr due to time again. Also tested the JP springs. 3 light strikes on steel WMC 100% reliable on brass. 

I would like to say that it is an AWESOME optic! 

Did you get the JP spring kit with the red hammer spring, or the yellow hammer spring? The red hammer spring is part of their enhanced reliability spring kit. It's supposed to help with preventing light strikes. I put the JP enhanced reliability spring kit in mine, and have no light strikes on steel cased ammo. I agree though, the PA10 definitely needs a better trigger. That's on my list of things to get as well.

[GoodByNAair]

On 6/13/2018 at 9:40 AM, mley1 said:

Did you get the JP spring kit with the red hammer spring, or the yellow hammer spring? The red hammer spring is part of their enhanced reliability spring kit. It's supposed to help with preventing light strikes. I put the JP enhanced reliability spring kit in mine, and have no light strikes on steel cased ammo. I agree though, the PA10 definitely needs a better trigger. That's on my list of things to get as well.

Yes I did get the reliability red spring. I changed it back over the weekend to mill hammer spring and JP everything else. It ran 100% with steel and the trigger feel was still better than all mill spec. Its better for sure. I Will pick up a JP kit for my 5.56 next 

 

50 rounds was just blinking with my brother in law. He has been thinking about a Big platform AR. He liked mine and its not even top of the heap. He was impressed for the price. Buck per bang is good! 

Edited June 21, 2018 by GoodByNAair

[Bigfoot]

PA10 with EPT trigger appears fine to me.

[GoodByNAair]

The PA EPT setup is not bad for sure I'm just saying its not a GSA set. But for the money + JP springs best bang for your buck. 

[bfoosh006]

On 6/20/2018 at 9:42 AM, Bigfoot said:

PA10 with EPT trigger appears fine to me.

Lol until you shoot it for accuracy for 8hrs... then it is exhausting.

It is a perfectly good Mil-Spec'ish trigger.. at a good price.

However, the longer pull compared to a target trigger will get old at the bench.

So just sayin' ?

 

[GoodByNAair]

AR15 adjustable trigger screw + jp springs Help a lot with feel and creep. again its no match trigger but not bad. 

[bfoosh006]

BTW... Right To Bear.com has the RRA Varmint 2 stage ( 3.5lbs ) and RRA Match 2 stage  (4.5lbs ) on sale for $80 bucks.... not as completely smooth as a Geissele's but very practical ... and serviceable.
Also the Strike Industries Extended Charging Handle latch... basically making the charging handle like a BCM Mod 4 Med.

https://www.righttobear.com/Rock-River-2-stage-trigger-p/ar0093nmk.htm

https://www.righttobear.com/Rock-River-Arms-Two-Stage-Varmint-Match-Trigger-3-p/ar0093nmkv.htm

https://www.righttobear.com/strike-industries-charging-handle-extended-latch-p/si-ar-latch-bk.htm

[jtallen83]

2 hours ago, bfoosh006 said:

BTW... Right To Bear.com has the RRA Varmint 2 stage ( 3.5lbs ) and RRA Match 2 stage  (4.5lbs ) on sale for $80 bucks.... not as completely smooth as a Geissele's but very practical ... and serviceable.
Also the Strike Industries Extended Charging Handle latch... basically making the charging handle like a BCM Mod 4 Med.

https://www.righttobear.com/Rock-River-2-stage-trigger-p/ar0093nmk.htm

https://www.righttobear.com/Rock-River-Arms-Two-Stage-Varmint-Match-Trigger-3-p/ar0093nmkv.htm

https://www.righttobear.com/strike-industries-charging-handle-extended-latch-p/si-ar-latch-bk.htm

Do some research before buying the RRA triggers, not long ago there were lots of reports on them going to crap really fast. Fast being relative to how much you shoot.

[98Z5V]

^^^  I second that.  There's tons of info out there on the .www about it.  Maybe they changed the materials?  Maybe they changed the design?  Not worth the risk to just blindly order, and hope for a good one, without doing the research first. There's information out there that goes back more than a decade...

Hell, I'm pretty sure it even happened to blue109 here. 

[mley1]

I got tired of fighting the PA EPT trigger at the bench. It isn't as good as folks make it seem. It's better than a milspec, but not as good as a decent aftermarket trigger. I've become a fan of CMC triggers. I picked up a CMC Lantac ECT1 flat trigger for my PA10 from Primary Arms on one of their sales. Got it for 99.00. I really like it a lot. I have one on a Seekins Precision AR15, and it is very nice. I haven't had a chance to shoot the PA10 with it yet, but I'm expecting better results at the bench.

Edited July 7, 2018 by mley1