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supertux1

Yet Another Build Thread - My First Large Frame AR

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40 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

$1000+ part, why a cheap peel washer that looks like crap and deforms?

The short answer is that profits are in the margins, in conjunction with the fact that peel washers work just fine when they're installed correctly. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 5:32 PM, 98Z5V said:

Tux, you see this gun right here?  12.5" 6.5 Grendel.  At 845 yards, it was 10.6 mils of drop.  This thing was center-massing all the impacts on full-size IPSC steel.  That's 18" wide. So if it's center-massing an 18" wide plate of steel, is that pretty damn close to1MOA?...  Yeah it is.  I wasn't the only one to do it, either.  Someone that had never shot a Grendel before hopped on it, and put a full mag right in the same places - right in the middle of the steel.

Oh, and yes, there was wind. 5~8mph, from the right, full value...  Running a Leupold 1.5~4 scope, at 4x, no less...   :thumbup:

 

P1060143.JPG

5

That's great, now put a 5.56mm in it and pull the trigger. You know, the round you made these claims with.  🙂

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44 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

I was under the impression that one shim of the exact thickness needed is the best way to mount a muzzle device that will have a can screwed on to it, and that for such an expensive part the manufacturers could include a $5 kit. Flash hider, who cares, $1000+ part, why a cheap peel washer that looks like crap and deforms?

You just showed, once more, what you don't know.  Excellent job.

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1 minute ago, supertux1 said:

That's great, now put a 5.56mm in it and pull the trigger. You know, the round you made these claims with.  🙂

Smartass, you're showing again what you don't know.

The 5.56 guns that have done this are my Mk12 Mod 0 and Mk12 Mod 1 guns.  850 yards with those two are easy - yes, even with wind. 

What I attempted to show you - and you FAILED to grasp - was the superiority of the 6.5 Grendel cartridge in the small-frame AR. 

That 12.5" barreled Grendel that you quoted me on - 12.5" barreled small frame AR - hit 846 yards with less drop than a .308 Win.

You can't see the forest, for the trees...  

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3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You just showed, once more, what you don't know.  Excellent job.

This is the kit I used: 

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrel-hardware/washers/shim-kit-for-mounting-flash-suppressors-prod103512.aspx

It cost $4.

Here is what it says:

"The GEMTECH 5/8-24 shim kit is ideal for mounting flash hiders, muzzle breaks or suppressor mounts. Crush washers and split-ring washers can cause canting of any brand of suppressor. By replacing those crush washers with a precision-made set of GEMTECH shim washers you can achieve perfect alignment and timing. "

Did I get fucked out of $4 on something that might not be 'better' but certainly isn't worse? Who do I call? 

 

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1 minute ago, supertux1 said:

Did I get fucked out of $4 on something that might not be 'better' but certainly isn't worse? Who do I call? 

Call Ghostbusters since we're already in the delusional realm. 

Seriously, you passed up the solution that came at no charge with your brake, which works by the way; and now you want to know why the frivolity that costs more to ship than the actual product value isn't a better solution?

Where to begin....

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WHOA!  Look at Mister Wizard!!!

Good job on your choice there!  I use Precision Armament Accu-Washers on mine, now.  Want me to take a picture of all of them, in my hand, for you? You can have a fistful of 1/2", and another fistful of 5/8", if that'll satisfy you.  I'll even combine them all in ONE FIST for you, in ONE PIC, and worry about separating them later...  :laffs:

Before those were invented... I used peel washers.  Every branch of the military also uses peel washers, and they always have - never have they used crush washers.  You know, just so you know.  It's all about education in this thread apparently, since you don't know much...

Lemme know if you want a pic of a handful of Accu-Washers in my hand, or not. Since you know it all, already...  :thumbup:

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10 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

Here is what it says:

"The GEMTECH 5/8-24 shim kit is ideal for mounting flash hiders, muzzle breaks or suppressor mounts. Crush washers and split-ring washers can cause canting of any brand of suppressor. By replacing those crush washers with a precision-made set of GEMTECH shim washers you can achieve perfect alignment and timing. "

This is a Thunder Beast Brake & Suppressor combo right?

GEMTECH is a competitor to Thunder beast, so it doesn't make a lot of business sense to put money into a competitor's products (like spacers) regardless of their cost, especially when there's a more economical way to approach the same problem that works equally well. 

It's in GEMTECH's best interests to say, "No, those peel washers are utter crap, buy our far superior precision spacers instead!".

Whether or not you want to buy into the marketing hype is fine. Just don't get too wound up when the folks that know better shake their heads and giggle at you.

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2 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

Call Ghostbusters since we're already in the delusional realm. 

Seriously, you passed up the solution that came at no charge with your brake, which works by the way; and now you want to know why the frivolity that costs more to ship than the actual product value isn't a better solution?

Where to begin....

1

Ok, let's start.

Exhibit A) I bought the brake from silencershop.com. Here is the product page. Show me where it says it comes with anything to mount it. https://www.silencershop.com/thunder-beast-cb-muzzle-brake.html

Exhibit B) Scroll up, a member suggested I use a shim kit for brakes that will be used in conjunction with a can. Maybe they're full of poop right? Hmm, the product pages for all the various shim kits suggest this particular use. But their business is selling shims so you know, huge conflict of interest here. 

Exhibit C) I have found a solution! I used that $4 item as a Brownell's filler item to get a discount and free shipping. $200 = $25 off and free shipping. 

Do I need to show you guys the receipts? 

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Tell you what, tux, I'll give you a very specific picture tomorrow, and it'll be my Mk12 Mod 0 5.56 gun, my Mk12 Mod 1 5.56 gun, and another Mk 12 Mod 1 6.5 Grendel gun - all three in the same pic.  The Mod 1 Grendel hasn't even been shot yet, but it's completed.  You'll get all three in the same pic, and I'll give you a very specific "bonus identifier" that guarantees it's from me, and they're real.  :thumbup:

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1 minute ago, supertux1 said:

Do I need to show you guys the receipts? 

Shiit no - I don't care about your receipts.  Not one bit.  I don't care about your apparent attitude that you know everything, either.  Which you think you do...

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You don't even know what a fucking peel washer is, but you think it's shiit.

You've already - numerous times - shown what you know. 

And what you don't know. 

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5 hours ago, supertux1 said:

The muzzle brake came with peel washers which was odd considering it’s for a can.

So much for exhibit A.

 

5 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

Scroll up, a member suggested I use a shim kit for brakes that will be used in conjunction with a can. Maybe they're full of poop right? 

No, you would've been advised within moments of being given any bad advice here. Ball busting aside, we really do care about people being able to come here and find sound advice.

That'll do it for exhibit B.

8 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

I have found a solution! I used that $4 item as a Brownell's filler item to get a discount and free shipping. $200 = $25 off and free shipping. 

So Brownell's swallowed the shipping cost. Fantastic! Wanna bet their shipping cost for the item was less than $4? I wouldn't take that bet, but that's just me.

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3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

This is a Thunder Beast Brake & Suppressor combo right?

GEMTECH is a competitor to Thunder beast, so it doesn't make a lot of business sense to put money into a competitor's products (like spacers) regardless of their cost, especially when there's a more economical way to approach the same problem that works equally well. 

It's in GEMTECH's best interests to say, "No, those peel washers are utter crap, buy our far superior precision spacers instead!".

Whether or not you want to buy into the marketing hype is fine. Just don't get too wound up when the folks that know better shake their heads and giggle at you.

1

It's not the combo, I haven't put the paperwork in for the can yet. The one I want that works with this brake is out of stock.

You know that my argument isn't 'Why didn't TB put in their competitor's parts!' right? I was honestly going to buy the ones the member linked above, but then I found GEMTECH's cheaper on Brownell's and I was buying stuff from there anyway.

I'm shaking my head and giggling that you're all giving me crap about $4 shims...

 

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2 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

You know that my argument isn't 'Why didn't TB put in their competitor's parts!' right?

I'm well aware of that. How many companies that are not suppressor or muzzle device manufacturers are selling precision timing shim kits?

I'm aware of none. Therefore in order to accommodate your preference, there's a problem of procuring and paying for precision shim kits. Since they aren't going to source them from their competitors, they don't necessarily come at the same cost or from the same source. Therefore it's not as simple as including the $4 shim kits with the $1000+ muzzle devices, is it?

So once we know where you would source your theoretical $4 shim kits from, besides competing companies naturally, we would be better informed as to how reasonable such a demand is...

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14 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

you're all giving me crap about $4 shims...

Not really so much as just busting your balls about not needing them if you had  peel washers.

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3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

I'm well aware of that. How many companies that are not suppressor or muzzle device manufacturers are selling precision timing shim kits?

I'm aware of none. Therefore in order to accommodate your preference, there's a problem of procuring and paying for precision shim kits. Since they aren't going to source them from their competitors, they don't necessarily come at the same cost or from the same source. Therefore it's not as simple as including the $4 shim kits with the $1000+ muzzle devices, is it?

 So once we know where you would source your theoretical $4 shim kits from, besides competing companies naturally, we would be better informed as to how reasonable such a demand is...

Here you go: https://www.mcmaster.com/#shim-kits/=1de371r

 

 

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51 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

That's great, now put a 5.56mm in it and pull the trigger. You know, the round you made these claims with.  🙂

 

25 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Tell you what, tux, I'll give you a very specific picture tomorrow, ...

I didn't feel like waiting, so  I dug them all out tonight.  Just for you, tux.

Here are SOME of the accuracy/precision guns.  I didn't dig everything out, or there would be alot more in this pic. 

You have, from top to bottom, ...

Mk12 Mod 0 5.56

Mk12 Mod 1 5.56

Mk 12 Mod 1 6.5 Grendel

SPR 18" 6.5 Grendel, on the AP Service Edition Army set

18" 6.5 Grendel Light(er) Hunter

P1060397.JPG.f5adc47592dc8b109a1bc2c96dc03f0c.JPG

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1 minute ago, supertux1 said:

That's some cheapass shiit, and not even firearms rated.  Yet, here you go again, attempting to show some knowledge - but showing what you really DON'T know.

Good try, though. 

Peel Washers are better on a rifle than that McMaster-Carr shiit.  FAR better. 

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This is for you, tux, because you think I'm full of shiit...  Can't fake this one - notice the background.  I just couldn't wait until tomorrow...

P1060399.thumb.JPG.d0cfff146e8d492ce1e1c92b4f4e1072.JPGP1060400.thumb.JPG.d46ebdc5df5b9082d7dde85711d6e062.JPG

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Just now, Matt.Cross said:

Here you go:

Screenshot_20180622-030305.thumb.png.a01ff086c560e0dee02e4bf57a90c7ea.png

 

Where's the $4 kit?

I didn't say they were cheap, only that they exist, and that places that aren't competing firearms manufacturers are making them. Want me to put a quote request out on Alibaba.com? We could probably find someone overseas willing to take orders for a million of them.

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4 minutes ago, supertux1 said:

I didn't say they were cheap, only that they exist, and that places that aren't competing firearms manufacturers are making them. Want me to put a quote request out on Alibaba.com? We could probably find someone overseas willing to take orders for a million of them.

So what? Hypothetically there's not much that isn't possible...

... but if you've got even a miniscule amount of common sense, you're not going to put McMaster-Carr 18-8 stainless washers behind your muzzle device between a 416 SS muzzle device and a even higher-grade SS barrel, or other differential metals.

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1 minute ago, Matt.Cross said:

 

... but if you've got even a miniscule amount of common sense,

That doesn't exist with this guy, Matt.  It's not there.

He's a hero, read everything about long distance on the internet, he's buying a gun, and he's gonna show EVERYONE...  

Hell, the only thing he has left is his optic, and he's already at 800 yards...   :thumbup:

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2 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

So what? Hypothetically there's not much that isn't possible...

... but if you've got even a miniscule amount of common sense, you're not going to put McMaster-Carr 18-8 stainless washers behind your muzzle device between a 416 SS muzzle device and a even higher-grade SS barrel, or other differential metals.

Again, I didn't suggest anyone do this. Only that it's fairly easy to find a source for shims (small discs of metal with varying degrees of thickness in whatever alloy you want) if muzzle brake manufacturers really cared to and it wouldn't cost that much in volume. McMaster doesn't make them, they're an engineering supply reseller, they get them from somewhere, probably China.

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