Comparing Short .308 Buffers

[98Z5V]

Gonna compare two short (2.5") .308 AR Carbine buffers.  Aero Precision vs. DSG Arms.

This specific Aero Part:

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/308-carbine-buffer.html

vs. this DSG Arms part:

https://dsgarms.com/dsg-4201-0021

The body on the AP shorty buffer is aluminum.  The body on the DSG shorty is stainless steel. Bonus.

Here's the whole DSG Arms shorty buffer. Comes in at 3.55oz.  Not quite H1-weight, but close. H1 weight would be 3.8oz. It's a sexy little bastard.

Here's the AP short buffer, complete.  It's 3.8oz, so it's a true H1-weighted buffer. 

What?!  How the hell is the Aero buffer heavier than the DSG, when the DSG is a stainless body?!  Hehehe...  Tungsten.

Here's the DSG body weight, stripped down.

Here's the Aero body, stripped down...

Quite the difference in the body weights, right there...

The DSG stainless-body shorty buffer is filled with the two pads and two steel weights, each weighing 0.65oz.

The aluminum Aero shorty body is filled with TWO tungsten weights!   Each one is 1.40oz.

So, let's slap those two tungsten weights in that DSG Stainless body, and come up with an almost-H3 buffer! 5.15oz.  True H3 buffers weigh 5.4oz, but this is pretty close.

For shiits a grins, lets load up that Aero body with the steel weights... Pretty light...  2.15oz buffer right there...  Not worth anything, at that weight, really.

 

 

[98Z5V]

Lesson here - That DSG Arms buffer is $22.  The AP buffer is $30.  For $52, you can get an "almost H3" shorty buffer.  That's pretty damn great, right there, if you HAVE to run a shorty buffer.

Here's another lesson - Geissele is the only one that I know of that sells tungsten replacement weights, at about $17 each IIRC.  That would be $34 for two. You can get the AP shorty buffer for $30, have two tungsten weights, a spare bumper and it's roll pin.  That light little aluminum body isn't worth anything afterwards, but you're not out anything on it, either...

Edited July 24, 2018 by 98Z5V

[Chuck Plissken]

Good to know and awesome find. I noticed to see KAK makes the 2.5" weighing in at 5.3 ounces. 

I have an AP carbine buffer I might swap the weights out of and get a DSG body for cheap like this. Good info!

[survivalshop]

19 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Lesson here - That DSG Arms buffer is $22.  The AP buffer is $30.  For $52, you can get an "almost H3" shorty buffer.  That's pretty damn great, right there, if you HAVE to run a shorty buffer.

Here's another lesson - Geissele is the only one that I know of that sells tungsten replacement weights, at about $17 each IIRC.  That would be $34 for two. You can get the AP shorty buffer for $30, have two tungsten weights, a spare bumper and it's roll pin.  That light little aluminum body isn't worth anything afterwards, but you're not out anything on it, either...

Are you sure those Tungsten weights will work in other Buffers & not proprietary to Geissele's own Buffer , which will only work with Geissele's own Braided wire Spring ? Of course his Buffer /Spring combo is for AR 15"s  ( so far )

Edited July 24, 2018 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

ID on a buffer body is 1/2".  It's standard, across the board.  You might run into some weird shiit from a cheapass company, but I doubt it - they all have "the buffer plans."  Geissele sells those weights for all buffers, so I doubt you'll find anything different out there.  I don't think any cheapass company is that stupid, brother...

[jtallen83]

6 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

Are you sure those Tungsten weights will work in other Buffers & not proprietary to Geissele's own Buffer , which will only work with Geissele's own Braided wire Spring ? Of course his Buffer /Spring combo is for AR 15"s  ( so far )

Pop that Geissele buffer open and let us know SS!

There was a source for tungsten buffer weights on flea bay but all the guy has right now is weights for the JP system. He was getting around $22 for three weights.

[98Z5V]

19 hours ago, Chuck Plissken said:

Good to know and awesome find. I noticed to see KAK makes the 2.5" weighing in at 5.3 ounces. 

I have an AP carbine buffer I might swap the weights out of and get a DSG body for cheap like this. Good info!

At $55 MSRP, that's a deal, and you don't have to do any work.  Here it is:

https://www.kakindustry.com/lr308-carbine-buffer-heavy

If you don't mind the work, this method saves you 3 bucks, get's you a spare buffer bumper and roll pin, and you get to MONGO-SMASH!!!  the shiit out of that light little aluminum buffer body when you're done.

In my eyes, that saves me thousands in therapy down the road... 

[98Z5V]

4 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

There was a source for tungsten buffer weights on flea bay but all the guy has right now is weights for the JP system. He was getting around $22 for three weights.

That's a damn good deal - the tungsten has to cost him more than that...  ?

[Chuck Plissken]

3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

That's a damn good deal - the tungsten has to cost him more than that...  ?

It is a good deal. $55 for a 5.3oz. 

98, do you plan to run or do you run suppressed? I'm thinking a 5.0-5.5oz with most gas port sizes running suppressed might not be enough weight. Hence why im going vltor buffer system and a 6.9oz PWS H4 buffer for good measure.

It's a headache for me yet fun to experiment. But...the wallet is always empty with my 308ar builds lol!

[98Z5V]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Plissken said:

It is a good deal. $55 for a 5.3oz. 

98, do you plan to run or do you run suppressed? I'm thinking a 5.0-5.5oz with most gas port sizes running suppressed might not be enough weight. Hence why im going vltor buffer system and a 6.9oz PWS H4 buffer for good measure.

It's a headache for me yet fun to experiment. But...the wallet is always empty with my 308ar builds lol!

No suppressors on this house, no matter how much shiit I take for it.  I should have 17 of the damn things by now, but I don't. That's my fault.  Will be corrected someday, with 17 suppressors. 

I think that you should build a functional gun for your ammo, and always start with basic parts. Always.  Don't complicate shiit with complicated shiit.

Once your basic functional gun is really fully functional, trick it the fuk out however you want. I don't believe in adjustable gas block to get a DI gun to run - if you need an adjustable gas block to make your DI gun run, then you fucked up the basics somewhere along the line, and your gun isn't right to begin with. My $0.02 on that BS.

Now, I DO believe in adjustable gas blocks, for their intended purpose - run suppressed, and run without suppressor.  That is where I believe they have their true function.

I think you need a 5.4 oz buffer to run a .308AR.  If everything is right, you should never need more.  After that, if you're running suppressed as well, you need an adjustable gas block (Yes, I said it). If you ONLY run suppressed, get into some of that crazy buffer weight that's way higher, and reduce the beating on your gun.  No sense in beating up parts, at all.

My opinion is that you should never run anything LESS than 5.4oz in buffer weight on a .308AR - it was designed that way.  Once you're lower than that, you have to make other compromises, in weaker recoil springs, smaller gas ports in the barrel, etc.  This is fine for "race gun guys," but not in the real world. Build your race gun anyway you want.

Off my soapbox...  

[survivalshop]

11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

Pop that Geissele buffer open and let us know SS!

There was a source for tungsten buffer weights on flea bay but all the guy has right now is weights for the JP system. He was getting around $22 for three weights.

Oh , now your going to make me work & disassemble one ? , I do have couple in AR's , I kinda like the system , so far , haven't had time to do comparison testing yet . Geissele doesn't say the weight is just for their Buffer , so its probably universal , but you never know any more , I try to not take anything for granted in the AR world .

[survivalshop]

That freaking Nylon Bumper or what ever its made of was a bitch to get out, but I stuck with it to bring all they important info for all of you .? 

Total weight , 3.8 oz. ( AR 15 Carbine )

Three weights , the middle one is heavy , three rubber pads , at least I think it was in the middle ,I had to put the beef into getting the bumper out & ended up with a lap full of inside components .   The black weights were really magnetic , the Silver looking one was magnetic , but not as much as the black ones .

The Buffer Body was Magnetic also

length of complete unit ( AR 15 Carbine )

length 3.25 "

Inside Diameter 0.557"

outside diameter , 0.684"

 

Weight Diameter , 0.543"

weight of Buffer Body , 0.08 oz. 

black weight or Spacer , weight , 0,06 oz. ( 2 )

The Silver weight , weight , 1.5oz. ( 1 )

Buffer Spring shelf on Buffer diameter , 0.752

 

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

Yep, that's an H1 alright - that one different weight is the one tungsten weight in it, the other two are steel.  The buffer body should be aluminum, and the magnet only stuck to it because the weights were inside it - that magnet was after the weights... 

[98Z5V]

I didn't even think about it - never grabbed the length of the weights in the buffers.  Just popped that AP shorty back apart to measure one of the steel weights I stuck back in it - 0.607" long, both of them. Just call it 0.600" for planning purposes...

Found some 1/2" tungsten rod on A-zon.  Prices vary WILDLY!  Wow!  Some people are really proud of their tungsten rod...

The best deal (I think) that I saw was a 1/2" diameter pure tungsten rod, 12" in length, for $128.80, with free shipping.  There's a 36" piece of it up for $505!  What?!...  There's C2 Tungsten Carbide on there, Copper Tungsten, etc.  Just watch what you find there, and in any general search for it. Look for "pure tungsten" or something that says the percentage; saw several listings that said "99.95% pure tungsten..."

So, that 12" piece for $128.80.  12/0.6= 20 pieces of tungsten, out of that 12" rod.  You won't get that,because of kerf, so throw one piece out, right away - call it 19 pieces of tungsten from that 12" rod.  $128.80/19= $6.78, each piece. That's not bad, right there.  You can afford to build your own heavier buffers that way, if you want to brave cutting the tungsten.  Shiit is harder than woodpecker lips.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by 98Z5V

[survivalshop]

8 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Yep, that's an H1 alright - that one different weight is the one tungsten weight in it, the other two are steel.  The buffer body should be aluminum, and the magnet only stuck to it because the weights were inside it - that magnet was after the weights... 

Nope , magnet suck to it with out the guts in there .  I don't think that Magnet is strong enough to go through Aluminum anyway .

[98Z5V]

Gonna be hard to make a 3.8oz H1 buffer combination, two steels weights and one tungsten, with anything but an aluminum buffer body, brother. If it was anything but aluminum, it would be heavier than 3.8oz.  Look at my aluminum buffer body (2.5" buffer body) weight of 0.65oz.  Your 3.25" buffer body weighs in at 0.8oz.  How is that anything other than aluminum?

If you messed around and invented the "aluminum magnet," I"m gonna be pis$ed. I've been trying to do that for YEARS!...  

[survivalshop]

I'm no metallurgist , it is , what it is .

[jtallen83]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:47 PM, 98Z5V said:

Geissele is the only one that I know of that sells tungsten replacement weights, at about $17 each IIRC.

Found a few sources;

$26.49 for three weights shipped;

https://midwesttungsten.com/tungsten-h3-recoil-rifle-buffer-weights-1-45-oz-each-ar-15/

$16.75 shipped for one weight at KAK

https://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/buffer-weight-tungsten

$19.99 + Shipping for three but sold out right now:

https://tungstenjunction.myshopify.com/products/tungsten-recoil-rifle-carbine-h3-buffer-weight-3-pack?variant=6843803041846

$25.85 shipped for three;

http://www.unbrandedar.com/buffer-weight-p/7097-0003-6500.htm

[392heminut]

$22.99 w/free shipping for 3 weights;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tungsten-Recoil-Buffer-Weights-T-D-Materials-Manufacturing/263862652559?hash=item3d6f708e8f%3Ag%3Af1EAAOSwODtbaGO4&_sacat=0&_nkw=tungsten+buffer+weights&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

[98Z5V]

This thread is AWESOME!  I search 1/2" diameter tungsten bar, and the prices were good - but cutting it would SUCK.

Just in from Roman - the Slash RRA 308 Carbine heavy buffer.  Here's some more buffer tech for us.  Thanks, @sketch!!!

(Slash, if you want this info pulled, just let me know...)

So, the RRA LAR-8,and all their .308ARs are even different yet. The upper and lower receivers are longer, the BCG (complete) is another 1/4" longer - and the buffers have to be another 1/4" shorter than what we're used to. 

This is a 5.7oz SHORT carbine buffer, at 2.25" total length.  The buffer body is a little shorter, but not the full 1/4", but the buffer bumper itself is a little shorter, too. The length reduction is via both the body and bumper.  It's a stainless steel body, and the diameter is not reduced at all...  Most buffers are; they have a reduced body, and it only flares up where it captures/fits into the spring.  There are two tungsten weights, and there are no pads in between the weighs - there's not enough room.  Checked that, and tried to put pads in it.  Nope, not happening. With the SS body, it probably won't need them anyway.

Standard tungsten weights, at 1.4oz each.

All buffer components, at 5.7oz weight:

Buffer body itself - this is impressive

Compared to a 2.5" shorty buffer - Aero on the left, RRA buffer on the right.  I wasn't putting that bumper all the way back in there, because I have a plan...

Here's the RRA buffer (2.250" OAL) with a standard bumper in the end of it:

What is 2.431" + 0.069" ?...   That's 2.500" right there, and I can run this in a DPMS-based recoil system. Oh, what's 0.069" thick?...   A quarter... 

 

[sketch]

welcome bro. this buffer is actually to short to run in my rra .308. i had bcg bashing but didnt know it for a few hundred rounds and then learned about it here. i reinstalled the original buffer and spring. no more bashing. rifle runs fine. i havent shot the beast in over 2 years and thought i might sell it. but who does that!?

id be curious if this length is the same from when i bought it in 2014?  i have to measure my tube next.. silly rra?

 

tube is 8"

og buffer is 3-1/8"

weight is 61.35 g. or 2.164 oz

Edited August 8, 2018 by sketch

[98Z5V]

42 minutes ago, sketch said:

welcome bro. this buffer is actually to short to run in my rra .308. i had bcg bashing but didnt know it for a few hundred rounds and then learned about it here. i reinstalled the original buffer and spring. no more bashing. rifle runs fine. i havent shot the beast in over 2 years and thought i might sell it. but who does that!?

id be curious if this length is the same from when i bought it in 2014?  i have to measure my tube next.. silly rra?

 

tube is 8"

og buffer is 3-1/8"

weight is 61.35 g. or 2.164 oz

With an 8" internal depth receiver extension, you could run (damn close) a regular AR15 H3 carbine buffer in that thing, brother!  5.4oz!

@sketch will you measure the internal depth of that receiver extension again, brother?  I have an idea...

Edited August 8, 2018 by 98Z5V

[sketch]

its 8" all day long!

[98Z5V]

@sketch You sure this thing is an RRA, right?  I'm gonna build you a 5.4oz buffer that will crush it in that receiver extension. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by 98Z5V

[sketch]

yup its my first born 308 factory rifle