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I have heard the Lucas oil "guy" on late night radio, maybe a truck driver type of program. Well he was telling people to put the product "right on top" of the full crankcase of engine oil, and that it would "soak into" the metals in the engine. I totally discounted the company after hearing that line of ^&%$#.

Bill

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43 minutes ago, willbird said:

I have heard the Lucas oil "guy" on late night radio, maybe a truck driver type of program. Well he was telling people to put the product "right on top" of the full crankcase of engine oil, and that it would "soak into" the metals in the engine. I totally discounted the company after hearing that line of ^&%$#.

Bill

I’ve seen documented accounts of guys running amsoil and losing oil and the motor ran because the oil “soaked” into the pores of the metal. I wish I could remember what it was on, I wanna say it was a drag car. I’m also certain that’s why you can’t go back to conventional oil after running synthetic 

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98’s stuff is good stuff. So is Amzoil. Love their gun lubricant and also their penetrating oil. Don’t know yet about their gun cleaner. Seems it is almost a lubricant.

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10 hours ago, Ravenworks said:

It's pretty obvious that you never had to keep an M60 clean.

I have, extensively. 

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15 hours ago, shepp said:

I’ve seen documented accounts of guys running amsoil and losing oil and the motor ran because the oil “soaked” into the pores of the metal. I wish I could remember what it was on, I wanna say it was a drag car. I’m also certain that’s why you can’t go back to conventional oil after running synthetic 

Basic stuff 🙂 metal does not have pores :-). make a plain steel tank, tig welded would look nice, fill it with any of those snake oils, see if any leaks out :-). Make a tank out of cast iron, one of aluminum, again no oil will leak out of the tanks :-). Some general consensus from way back in the day is that stuff like that that simply vanishes, goes out the exhaust because it was mostly petroleum distillates. There is no "magic" to synthetic oil. it can be slipperier...which means an engine that ran 150k on dino oil might leak like a %$#@ on synthetic :-). But it does not have the ability to penetrate solid metal, nope. if you setup a used cast iron part in a grinder and remove even a few .0001" your into clean metal. There are intentionally porous parts made from bronze, some are filters, others are self lubricating bushings. But they are a part pressed from granules and sintered with heat.

Bill

Edited by willbird

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11 hours ago, willbird said:

Basic stuff 🙂 metal does not have pores :-).

Really now...

 

1334443491_crankshaftfigure1.jpeg.6c108c28b347e849e9f523db2036bbef.jpeg 305342037_crankshaftfigure2.jpeg.a8060b2a7bbb26e1524516c5888e77f6.jpeg

Quote

Figures 1 & 2 show the top and cross sectional surface views of an engine crankshaft bearing shell under 4,500 times magnification. This view consists of peaks and valleys, not the smooth polished surfaces we see with the naked eye.

The roughness of the asperity induces turbulence in the oil film between the bearing surfaces and in the boundary (marginal) lubrication mode. This turbulence encourages oil film breakdown, allowing the bearing’s surfaces to contact each other.

Edited by 98Z5V

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6 hours ago, willbird said:

Basic stuff 🙂 metal does not have pores :-). make a plain steel tank, tig welded would look nice, fill it with any of those snake oils, see if any leaks out :-). Make a tank out of cast iron, one of aluminum, again no oil will leak out of the tanks :-). Some general consensus from way back in the day is that stuff like that that simply vanishes, goes out the exhaust because it was mostly petroleum distillates. There is no "magic" to synthetic oil. it can be slipperier...which means an engine that ran 150k on dino oil might leak like a %$#@ on synthetic :-). But it does not have the ability to penetrate solid metal, nope. if you setup a used cast iron part in a grinder and remove even a few .0001" your into clean metal. There are intentionally porous parts made from bronze, some are filters, others are self lubricating bushings. But they are a part pressed from granules and sintered with heat.

Bill

This has been bothering me all day and finally in my drive home I’ve come to my rebuttale, yes you’re correct metal is not like a sponge or a sieve. BUT is does have nooks and crannie (pores) for the molecules to fill into and coat and that was my point. You don’t have to believe in it, but I’ve seen First hand of motors under major and reckless abuse succeed greatly under the use of magic oil AKA amsoil brand. 

 

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There are all kinds of "stuff" they add to lubricants to make them behave a certain way, to cling to surfaces longer for example. But no way on earth are there enough peaks and valleys in the average engine to "absorb" a quart of some snake oil additive :-).

IE the pan is full to the dipstick mark, you pour in a quart of Orvilles snake oil 500,000...drive it a week and the oil level is back at the mark because somehow the engine retained that quart of "stuff" on the surfaces of moving parts :-).

As in all things in life it is totally OK if we do not agree, but when I hear such claims I just totally discount the whole company and everything it sells...BINGO....done with them. 

I have a friend on another spot that swears WATER comes out of steel when you cut it with a torch :-)....same kinda malarkey :-).

Bill

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7 hours ago, willbird said:

Basic stuff 🙂 metal does not have pores

Depends on your definition of pores, for the layman "pores" makes it easier to understand. Some metal surfaces will will hold more lubricant than others and some lubricants will stick to the the surfaces better than others. Start using the lube that 98 passed around and the difference becomes very obvious.

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1 minute ago, jtallen83 said:

Depends on your definition of pores, for the layman "pores" makes it easier to understand. Some metal surfaces will will hold more lubricant than others and some lubricants will stick to the the surfaces better than others. Start using the lube that 98 passed around and the difference becomes very obvious.

IMHO the simplified explanation creates a deeply entrenched mis conception :-). I guess I was raised by a father whose father was an Engineer, and pretty much using accurate descriptions was drilled into me at an early age. When a sales pitch involves a product soaking into metal I'm done :-).

 

Bill

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33 minutes ago, willbird said:

and pretty much using accurate descriptions was drilled into me at an early age.

When your child is born holding a gun and a micrometer, you naturally waste no time ingraining such principles.

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1 minute ago, Matt.Cross said:

When your child is born holding a gun and a micrometer, you naturally waste no time ingraining such principles.

LOL that is for sure :-). Mom and Dad sure had it rough sometimes :-). Somewhere between 2 and 3 years old I woke up early and got a Philips screwdriver and took the metal drip edge off the kitchen counter. I can remember being fascinated by the "stuff" that would seep out when mom wiped it with a towel. Of course first I dumped out the sugar and flour containers, and the dog peed in that and she and I tracked it all over. Dad heard something an woke up, went to see what was up and saw mom just sitting in the middle of the kitchen crying :-).

 

Bill

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1 hour ago, willbird said:

IMHO the simplified explanation creates a deeply entrenched mis conception :-). 

 

Bill

Well I’m just a refrigeration monkey, so you  you gotta speak slowly and use small words. Plus side is we’re smarter than plumbers 

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7 minutes ago, shepp said:

Well I’m just a refrigeration monkey, so you  you gotta speak slowly and use small words. Plus side is we’re smarter than plumbers 

it is good that the oil does not leak through the pores in the copper tubing ;-).

Bill

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7 minutes ago, willbird said:

it is good that the oil does not leak through the pores in the copper tubing ;-).

Bill

Or compressors 

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The pictures are showing now.  I fixed that post up there ^^^...

That's the bearing and bearing surfaces on a crankshaft.  So, no pores to fill in, huh?  Think again.

Ever sent trans gears out to get micro-polished?  The purpose of that is to reduce gear-to-gear contact friction and make more power and lower operating temps.  They come back looking chrome plated.  Fucking amazing.  Before, the contact surfaces "looked good," but when they come back, it's a completely different world.  Issue: they were rough as hell before - you just can't see that small.   

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4 hours ago, willbird said:

IMHO the simplified explanation creates a deeply entrenched mis conception :-). I guess I was raised by a father whose father was an Engineer, and pretty much using accurate descriptions was drilled into me at an early age. When a sales pitch involves a product soaking into metal I'm done :-).

 

Bill

That's YOUR opinion.  In MY opinion, you're neither familiar enough nor educated enough on the process to understand what you're saying, let alone argue against it.  That's MY opinion.  If you were, we could have a conversation about it, and you could learn something. 

Not all products are created equal, and you don't know about all the products out there.  Fuk me, you didn't even know that skin oils and sweat have acids in them- for everyone.

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6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Really now...

 

1334443491_crankshaftfigure1.jpeg.6c108c28b347e849e9f523db2036bbef.jpeg 305342037_crankshaftfigure2.jpeg.a8060b2a7bbb26e1524516c5888e77f6.jpeg

Just so nobody misses the top view and cross section view of a crankshaft bearing surface, magnified 4500 times.  That's a "smooth bearing surface" when we look at it.

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Yeah I am on the pores side of the argument, maybe not like pores that we have on our skin. but I have stripped guns while cleaning them, especially with machine guns in the military, that I needed to put two coats of gun oil on it because the first coat just soaked right into the metal leaving the surface dry. 

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12 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

That's YOUR opinion.  In MY opinion, you're neither familiar enough nor educated enough on the process to understand what you're saying, let alone argue against it.  That's MY opinion.  If you were, we could have a conversation about it, and you could learn something. 

Not all products are created equal, and you don't know about all the products out there.  Fuk me, you didn't even know that skin oils and sweat have acids in them- for everyone.

Yes it is MY opinion that oil does not soak into metal. Sorry to irritate you by daring to disagree, sorry to ask exactly why some folks skin oils and sweat are way more prone to causing rust than the average person.

I guess the handicap of being poorly educated and unfamiliar with the world puts me in a place where I pretty much should just nod my head and agree with others.

Here anyway.

Oil soaking right into metal........ermergerd :-).

Bill

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Kind of looking like there is some agenda with the company name I mentioned maybe, I dunno. Or just a general theme that open discussion and or debate is not welcome. That is fine with me.

Bill

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