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FWD assist


Rabbit79
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Question to toss out... 

Can you and I, if  we wanted to take it on, modify a upper w the boss lug of aluminum where the forward assist would be ..drill out hole install a fwd assist..

Simplified version..

Can u buy a jig for installing a forward assist that, doesn't assist? 

 

Expand on fellas!

Jay

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Yes.  At the basic level.....it is just drilling holes.

 

Now to make the operation come out with operational parts that function in the way they are originally designed to......either a mill or lather should be employed. 

Same thing done at factory or forge......just more personal time involved. 

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It's been my experience that if you need to use the forward assist, that will be the last time you use the forward assist -- or the rifle -- until you forcibly extract that case from the chamber.

Personally, I'd just as soon run a slickside upper, but the 2 uppers I have that aren't slickside have SSS gas vents installed instead of a FA.

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6 hours ago, Cliff R said:

It's an appendage added to the AR design that probably isn't needed for what most of us do with these weapons in the civilian sector......IMHO.....

I'd have to agree, but my friends who have served pull the charging handle and then smack the FA in a single motion. Probably due to muscle memory and training. I started doing it just cuz. As mentioned earlier, if you have to do it it's most likely the last time you do it.

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34 minutes ago, PaddyMac said:

but my friends who have served pull the charging handle and then smack the FA in a single motion.

Yep, I catch myself doing it all the time, amazing how that muscle memory hangs in there for so many years. Never did understand why they made us do it but I tended not to ask many questions like that.

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In Marine Corps boot camp marksmanship training  way back in 1960 we were taught to hit the operating handle of the M1 and M14 every time after loading a new clip or magazine and releasing the bolt to be sure the bolt was locked, that has carried over for me on the M1A and the Ar15 and LR308.

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Well now I'm going to start doing it with my M1A as well. If thats the way you guys were taught it makes sense to me. I'll probably never find myself in a firefight to foul things enough to need the smackdown but may as well be consistent. I have to coach my kids constantly to not push bolts gently into battery. Let the springs do things as they should. Smacking the FA or bolt handle after release seems like a good idea.

They seem to have no problem hitting the slide release on a pistol minus magazine and rounds which pisses me off. Go figure.

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8 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

Yep, I catch myself doing it all the time, amazing how that muscle memory hangs in there for so many years. Never did understand why they made us do it but I tended not to ask many questions like that.

You not question something....what happened that changed all that?

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It's been proven for the most part when the chit-hits-the-fan you will "play" like you practice. 
 

This is why I NEVER, EVER catch my empty magazines in my free hand with any weapon I'm reloading.  It the heat of the battle more times than not you'll waste time and fill your free hand with an empty mag vs a loaded one to re-charge the weapon.  Magazines are cheap and expendable, let them drop to the ground and fetch yourself a loaded one when you are practicing your tactical pistol skills at the range.

It also takes many repetitions for something to become "automatic", so IF you plan on adding a step to your reloading plan that's considered beneficial, practice it many hundreds of times.  It's been proven that most of us will go on "autopilot" in a situation where you are using or planning on using deadly force, no time to think things out, when you have seconds to end a threat any help is typically minutes away, so you just revert back to your training and experiences with those things.

When I went to my first unit after completing SAI school in the early 1980's they still had a rack full of M-16's left over from the early years w/o forward assists (pre-A-1's ?).  A couple of times during my tour there we got Servicewide messages to expend certain lots of 5.56 ammo (Yippie!).  We would load literally dozens of magazines and hit the range for a day of fun and practice.  We found out very quickly why later varieties of the M-16 were 3 round burst vs full auto.  Anyhow, back then full-auto was allowed so we'd run those old M-16's till the ammo was gone.  The would get so hot you could feel the heat from them 3 feet away!  Never once did we experience the first malfunction of any kind (although I was expecting a "cook-off" here and there but never had any).  Those old versions of the M-16 ran flawlessly w/o a forward assist or any other "modern" upgrades other than ours had chrome lined barrels put in them at some point.

For the next 20 years I spent considerable time on the range training new recruits and keeping everyone at my units weapons quals up to date.  I can't remember in all those tens of thousands of rounds sent down range with the M-16, A1's, A2's and A4/M4's a single instance where we needed the forward assist.  Of course it goes without saying that my weapons got the full service, cleaning and maintenance they required, and we were in a "clean" environment, not burying them in the sand, swamp, rain forest or forging thru rivers with them........FWIW......Cliff

Edited by Cliff R
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6 hours ago, DNP said:

You not question something....what happened that changed all that?

Advice from my Father before leaving to Benning, "Keep your mouth shut, don't volunteer, don't ask questions and when asked there are only three answers, yes sgt. no sgt. and no excuse sgt." Followed his advice although he forgot to add it is "Drill Sgt." not just Sgt. which cost a few belly crawl under the barracks episodes.

 I may be a contrarian arse but I'm not a stupid arse. :laffs:

If I remember correctly the intricacies of the FA were explained better once at battalion but it was just part of the firehose they turned loose on you there.

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7 hours ago, Cliff R said:

It's been proven for the most part when the chit-hits-the-fan you will "play" like you practice. 
 

This is why I NEVER, EVER catch my empty magazines in my free hand with any weapon I'm reloading.  It the heat of the battle more times than not you'll waste time and fill your free hand with an empty mag vs a loaded one to re-charge the weapon.  Magazines are cheap and expendable, let them drop to the ground and fetch yourself a loaded one when you are practicing your tactical pistol skills at the range.

 

THIS ^^^^ right here! Back in the days of revolvers being there duty weapon of most officers, cops were found dead with a handful of empty cartridge cases. Why? Because they were trained on the range to dump their empties in their hand and pocket them or put them in a can before reloading! That kind of training will get you killed in a firefight!

When Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn dreamed up the IDPA because they felt that IPSC was too much of a game and they wanted to start a new venue that was more realistic to actual gunfights they put in a rule penalizing the shooter for not retaining a partially spent mag when reloading! WTF!!!!! I had a lot of respect for those guys but neither one of them had ever been in a real gunfight and apparently had not really researched the topic either! Their so called 'realistic gunfight' rules were teaching shiit that can get you killed. In my 14 years as a law enforcement firearms instructor mag retention was never taught, NEVER!

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I pull the mag every time the AR stops shooting.  First thing I do is look at the top of it.  If there's brass in the top of that mag, and not the mag follower - I have a malfunction.  Time to clear the gun. No time to fuk around when the gun stops shooting, so you need to get to business - strip the mag, LOOK.  You can't do that if you throw it on the ground - then jam another mag into a jammed or malfunctioned gun.  Zero sense in that - you just compounded your problems.

Right finger on mag release, cut mag loose, left hand on mag - gun goes on safe at the same time.  I either have brass, and a malfunction, or I don't. 

It's pretty easy to tell if you just fired to empty-mag...  That "SPROING!" that people hate about the buffer spring, just told you that you locked back on the last round in your mag, and you need to change mags because you were empty.  The recoil impulse is different, too - and if you shoot enough, you know what that last round feels like - AND you get the sound...  Silencing that buffer spring is one of the dumbest things that you can ever do, and it's a gimmick. Unless you're a Gamer.

There are too many videos here on this site of me doing just that - every single time the AR goes dry.  Mag is out immediately, and that gun is tilted 45 degrees left - those two things happen at the same time - first thing I look at is the top of the mag, next thing I look at is the chamber - all in front of my face, in my work space.  I dont look down to do it, I don't look left or right - straight ahead, direction of fire.  Too many videos here of that. Same thing with my pump-shotgun use.  Shot shooting, jack pump back, gun goes over to 45 degrees left, observe chamber.  They're all here.

Different games, different training - different outlook.  I never just dump a mag when the gun stops firing unexpectedly.  I pull that mag and look at it. That's my first clue. It's either brass or not.  After that, I continue on with my training. 

 

Edited by 98Z5V
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Gotta catch it quick in this one - shotgun.  No mag to strip, last round, though, gun goes over at a 45 to check that chamber.  It's not long, but it's fast, and that's years of doing it that makes it like that.  I'm not bragging - I'm stating training, nothing more. Habits.  Over time.  I'll get some AR vids of this up here, when I find them, from here.

Train real, but train smart. Don't train for games.  Train like your life depends on it, because you don't know when that will be, and you can't predict it.  Don't throw away mags, hang onto them.  You don't know when you'll be able to get another one, and ammo resupplies are worthless without them.

https://forum.308ar.com/uploads/monthly_2018_10/VID_20181018_162901631.mp4.96aaa9e99466aeddeb8b762a60c10456.mp4

Edited by 98Z5V
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The shotgun course in place when I was an SAI involved combat loading.  After the last round leave the action to the rear, keep the weapon pointed toward the target, tilt it slightly to the left and load a live round in with your free hand then action forward, then proceed to fill the mag tube.  Something good to practice and if you watch the John Wick movies I believe he's doing some of that sort of thing in a few of the shooting sequences.

That deal looks and sound good until you fail to get a round fully seated into the magazine tube and it slides back under the carrier!.......

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