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Dragonscout

Another technical question

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So I had to take some AR money and fix the commuter car. I know call me uncommitted...Still looking at which AR to purchase. Found a new DPMS Oracle for $800 but it is supposedly spoken for. We'll see...Anyway, I'm trying to figure out with all the barrel makers and interest in this larger platform, why does there only seem to be 2 twist rates, 1:10 and 1:11.25"? Since I haven't shot tons of .308 as a civilian in all the differing bullet weights, which seems to hold the most promise for the widest range of grain weight? I went to the search function and might have missed something, but after the TBI and "squirrel distraction syndrome" set in and I read half of the Armalite tech bulletins, I still couldn't find anything. Gimme some info and opinions dudes!!

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7 minutes ago, Dragonscout said:

So I had to take some AR money and fix the commuter car. I know call me uncommitted...Still looking at which AR to purchase. Found a new DPMS Oracle for $800 but it is supposedly spoken for. We'll see...Anyway, I'm trying to figure out with all the barrel makers and interest in this larger platform, why does there only seem to be 2 twist rates, 1:10 and 1:11.25"? Since I haven't shot tons of .308 as a civilian in all the differing bullet weights, which seems to hold the most promise for the widest range of grain weight? I went to the search function and might have missed something, but after the TBI and "squirrel distraction syndrome" set in and I read half of the Armalite tech bulletins, I still couldn't find anything. Gimme some info and opinions dudes!!

Simply put, the reason is that those two twists suffice to stabilize a broad range of bullet weights without compromising anything. I prefer the 1:10 twist for stabilizing the heavier bullets at long ranges. The faster twist makes lighter bullets act more erratic sooner, but I don't shoot lighter bullets so it's not an issue.

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Thx, Matt, but it seems so much of the "cannon fodder" out for sale seems to be of the 150 grains or less. So unless you shoot less or I roll a lot more of my own then I need to stay with 1:10 for 155 and up? And what do you see as the prime bullet weight if I went with 1:11.25? I want to get back to handloading, but can't get into all of it at once...

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16 minutes ago, Dragonscout said:

Thx, Matt, but it seems so much of the "cannon fodder" out for sale seems to be of the 150 grains or less. So unless you shoot less or I roll a lot more of my own then I need to stay with 1:10 for 155 and up? And what do you see as the prime bullet weight if I went with 1:11.25? I want to get back to handloading, but can't get into all of it at once...

1:10 will stabilize anything, but after 300-400 yards lighter stuff will fall apart accuracy wise. The slower twist will keep the lighter stuff together out to about 500 yards and after that it'll be iffy.

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Thanks for the intel brother. I really am looking forward to the coming purchase. Unfortunately I think I've got to get something before November, but all the shops are saying they can't even get anything. The big box stores have quit selling so where the hell is it all going? If I had a lot more knowledge I'd consider building, but my money comes so hard I can't afford those kinds of mistakes since these rifles aren't mil-spec. That's why I value y'all and your knowledge so much!

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@Dragonscout, you might tell us exactly what you want to use this rifle for, and what you'd most like to have on it (stock, barrel, grip, sights, handguard, etc.) and ask what parts would make the best combination for your purposes. I suspect there are people here who've got the answers.

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5 hours ago, Dragonscout said:

 The big box stores have quit selling so where the hell is it all going?

It's literally all going to La Corona Panic-Buyers that have never been gun owners before, in their life.  They're buying anything, and everything, that they can get their hands on.  They're trying to buy up ALL ammo, too, like it's the first/last Hoo Rah.  Never-Gun-Owners are coming out of the bushes, and trying to buy everything, right now.  Never had a gun before, but this is their Apocalypse... 

 

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Those dumb-chits should be buying dry stores, canned goods, etc.  The same idiots that are rushing down to buy guns and suck up all the ammo run over the Krogers and buy up all the milk and other perishable chit.  That's not thinking long term and just further validates the fact that they don't have a flucking clue as to what's really going on here, or how to prepare for another wave of this chit, or the possibility that our infrastructure may get messed up even worse and you may be staying home a LOT longer than they originally predicted. 

The compulsive behavior comes from leading a somewhat "normal" life.  Most if not all of the folks I saw standing in line at Rural King to suck up whatever guns were left when this thing first started wouldn't have a clue how to use them, couldn't hit a 4 x 8 piece or plywood at 20 steps, and wouldn't be able to drop the hammer on an assailant anyhow....IMHO.  I'll also bet most of those folks are pretty much "hand to mouth",  looking at their "reactive" vs "proactive" response to this pandemic..........FWIW.........

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I understand and agree with the entire board on this entire response. I'm a former 25th Recondo Scout. I fired my first AK at 12 when my Dad was an instructor during Vietnam. Loved military designed weapons. Over the last 35 years, I've acquired older milsurps, several Mosins, SKS, a pristine #4 Mk1 Enfield scoped. I couldn't count the rounds across 1/2 to 3/4 click farm fields out in Missouri downrange into old track rail beds. I'm no longer competing as I did in the late 80s for EAA. I always wanted a semi-auto .308 platform. Have shot the FAL and CTEME/HK. Loved the Cetme and shot it well enough that my buddy got pissed off and sold it at a gun show. (Missed THAT opportunity). Liked the FAL platform, but neither seemed to have the inherent accuracy of the AR system. Now...I have a Ruger .308 LH bolt, and want a companion. Could be used for home defense if I hand off the Hungarian AMD that shoots 2MOA. I've seen some of the video from folks like (9 Hole?) shooting AR .308 12.5" pistols practically out to 500 yards. I understand the velocity loss, but as Dad and the Drill Sgts always said, "If you can see "em do your part and you can put "em down..." So I'm looking for either 12.5 or 16" of pipe, don't care for a pencil barrel since it heats too quick. I DON"T do mag dumps. Don't see folding stock as a practical reality although I'd love one. Mebbe a Rise Armament trigger and comp like on my MMR Tactical AR. Would like free float but may not be reality at my price point. Don't need to hang a Ninja blender, or duck call off the front end. Don't need or like the fore end all the way to the muzzle device. Will probable scope it at my age (early 60s) with one of the 4-12s lying around, older but serviceable with BUIS metal irons. Budget probably no more than $1K - 1200. Too many other home repairs getting in the way. could go on but y'all get the drift. Needless to say it'll be shot and experimented with enough to find the right grain and then handload. I just appreciate the input more than any of you know....this is the kind of back and forth I got from my Dad and uncles, the greatest warriors I know....

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My dad got me into hunting and shooting at a very early age.  He turned me loose squirrel hunting with a browning 22 auto before I was 10.  He got me a Beagle and a  .410 single shotgun for hunting rabbits.  He was stationed at WRAFB in Georgia at the time, and had a reservist working for him that had a big farm, pecans, peanuts, etc.   My dad always amazed me that he could hit those fast flying doves with a near 100 percent success rate.  I'd fire 100 rounds back then and lucky to have 5 birds laying on the ground!  Dad served in 3 conflicts, WWII, the Korean War, and Viet Nam.  He was tough as nails like most were from his time, never complained much, if at all, and had the highest devotion for duty and country.  He wasn't old enough to sign up initially at the onset of WWII so went into the Merchant Marine and sailed supply ships (absolutely the WORST place to be as German U-boats targeted and sank gobs of them). 

Interesting how those guys seldom speak much of war.  About the only story he ever told me was when a ship he was on listed HARD to one side right before it went down.  It surprised him so much he was tossed over the rail to certain death.  He said that a hand reached down and pulled him back on board but never told me the fellow sailors name and I'm not even sure he knew who it was?

Starting early with shooting and hunting was good for me.  I progressed into long range shooting, ground hogs mostly, and by the time I was old enough for the draft I had worked up hand-loads for my 22-250 that would literally put every round just about in the same hole at 100 yard if the jerk behind the trigger did their part.  I still have dad's Herters hand loading set for 12 gauge and 30-06, I moved quickly to an RCBS press and reloading dies for the various calibers I was accumulating.

While on active duty I took a detour for a couple of years and was assigned to a range as a small arms instructor, and on the rifle and pistol team.  It was a lot of fun, met some good folks and got to travel around shooting in competition.  I loved that deal but wanted to get back in the field so after a couple of years had to give that up.  I retired in 2003 and loving every minute since.  Building AR's has become a hobby, and I'm getting pretty heavily back into shooting and reloading for these platforms.  I prefer heavier bullets in 308, and will take the hit in velocity reduction vs improved ballistics and long range terminal performance.  Even so I focus on 300 yards or under as 99.9 percent of the big game I've taken have been pretty close. 

I've mentioned it a few times on these threads, barrel length and profile very quickly add a butt-load of weight to one of these weapons.  Not a big deal if you are laying over sandbags for most outings, but it's a major consideration if you are over 60 like I am and still hunting up near 12,000' on public land and having to hike it at least a mile and a half before you start putting yourself near any Elk.........

Edited by Cliff R

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Funny how small the blue marble is. I transferred from the Kansas City area working at the Leavenworth VA to get the family back home in the South. I work in the Macon VA clinic and live in Warner Robins. What drives me nuts is that in the Midwest I had plenty of places to shoot within 15 - 20 minutes from the house. Down here the closest range is about an hour away unless I want to pay ungodly "club" fees ($300 - 500). So that's gonna hamper me some. I used to call the wife and say "stopping by Potter's" and she knew I was shooting. Now...crap. Anyway, I want to get a dependable .308 that's not a beast. Deep backup to home defense (8 shot Mossberg and AMD AK), compact semi for hunting small white tail and hogs here in middle and south Georgia; 12.5" - 16", although I may have to go to 18". I used to regularly keep respectable groups on half silhouettes on the 500 KD range (there's a throwback) with irons, but I know I'll have to accept a scope. I've even got an old Redfield "gunsite" scope that might work, but that's putting the cart out front. Just getting the valued opinions of you folks will do for now...

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14 hours ago, Dragonscout said:

 If I had a lot more knowledge I'd consider building, but my money comes so hard I can't afford those kinds of mistakes since these rifles aren't mil-spec. That's why I value y'all and your knowledge so much!

I honestly think you would enjoy building your own.

There's no hurry here so why not take a week and read up?

I think you will find it very gratifying in the end.

As for mistakes,just speak up and ask questions it's not like you're spinning up raw steel.to make your components.

You'll do fine.

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