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Rare Breed FRT-15 Trigger


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  • 5 weeks later...

Info coming up sooner, rather than later.  I needed a gun to put one of these in, so I looked at what I had, instead of building another gun-around-a-trigger.  As luck would have it, I've got an 11.5" AR pistol, just sitting around doing nothing.  PERFECT CANDIDATE FOR TESTING!!!

It's Old-Skool AR Pistol, right here, before any of these fancy "braces" were even invented - so it's getting some minor, modern updates.   This is the lead-slinger, right here.  11.5" BCM carbine-gas barrel, BCM BCG, and all the tricks I could throw at it, back in 2011.  This is gonna get interesting, men...  




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On 12/31/2020 at 8:13 AM, unforgiven said:

Linked 9mm?

That's a GO, brother...   In this vid, Ian Harrison talks about the specifics, and the manufacturer states to use a heavy buffer - that's covered in this vid.  I have some stuff to work out on my side, with the LAW Folder, and it's BCG insert (weighs 62 grams, or 2.187 ounces) - but I'll get it figured out...  Linked 9mm, though - no issue, brother... :thumbup:


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Updated changes made.  Tailhook Mod 2, B5 Systems P23 grip in FDE, not Coyote, and a PA red dot and mount.  Ready to go for Sunday morning, to see how the trigger test goes.  Don't know how long I can keep the trigger, but I'll have it for Sunday to test at least.   :thumbup:

Oh - it's over 26" long, ass to nose, so none - NONE - of this new "Brace BS" that's being legislated has any affect on this pistol, whatsoever.  Read the fine print in that stupid proposal of theirs.  Over 26" OAL?   Doesn't pertain, not at all...



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Posted (edited)

So, with the LAW Tactical Gen 2 folder on there, it comes with and extension/insert that goes in the back of the BCG, to take up the additional length/space of the folder. 

After watching the Ian Harrison/RECOIL vid a few times,  Rare Breed recommends a heavy (H3) buffer for operation...  He tried it, and had to drop down the buffer weight to get the gun to run.  I took notes, about that. 

I weighed that LAW insert, and it's 62 grams, or 2.18699 oz.  Let's call that 2.187 oz, of additional cyclic weight/reciprocating mass, that's been added to the recoil system.  Previously, I had an H-weighted buffer in this pistol.  So, 3.8oz buffer, plus another 2.187oz is one heavy buffer...   5.987oz.   If RECOIL Mag had issues with a 5.4oz buffer, then I predict issues with that setup.  I swapped out the H for a standard carbine buffer, 3.0oz.  That's still 5.187oz, pretty heavy, when those guys had to go lighter. 

So, I built 2 more buffers today, just in case.  I grabbed 2 standard carbine buffers, opened them up, and substituted some aluminum weights.  Took a steel out of one, inserted one aluminum.  I'm calling that Carbine Buffer -1.  2 steels out in the other, 2 aluminums in, and I'm calling that Carbine Buffer -2.  That's what they'd be, anyway...  

Standard 3.0oz carbine buffer + 2.187oz (LAW insert) = 5.187oz.

C-1 weighs 2.55oz + 2.187oz = 4.737oz.

C-2 weighs 2.15oz + 2.187oz = 4.337oz.

One of these things should work.  I'll take tools with me if they don't, and make a C-3 buffer, all aluminum inserts, and that would leave me with a 3.937oz buffer, as a last resort...That's still slightly over the weight of a 3.8oz H buffer, right there... BUT!  The thing ran great with an H buffer before...   

If none of this works - hand-cut Delrin inserts, at a later date, if I can keep the trigger that long.  Sounds like a great day.  It's only supposed to be 114* tomorrow...  :laffs:


All in the name of Science...   :banana:

Edited by 98Z5V
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30 minutes ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

No if he were a Democrat, he would have said it was settled science without any tests and you are racist if you ask for any information about the conclusion. 

Valid point.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 weeks later...
20 minutes ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

BATF has determined these to be machine guns.

I read about this a few days ago. I am still not sure that the ATF really did determine them to be machine guns. The Rare Breed's lawyer's reply to the ATF's cease and desist was scathing. 

My current suspicion was that this happened without enough due process within the ATF to stand up in court. On the other hand... I'm not sure anyone has fought one of these to the end. I'm on the edge of my seat. My personal opinion is that a forced reset trigger can't possibly be a machine gun. One trigger pull; one bullet.

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They have a strong case.  The highlight that they have in their corner is an obvious one

  23. In other words, ATF may promulgate and enforce rules under this section of the United States Code, but ATF has no authority to change the Code or the Code’s definition of what constitutes a “machinegun”.


And that is very true.  The whole lawsuit document is very well written.

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Here is a link to the (shorter) initial reply by Rare Breed's lawyers to the ATF's cease and desist letter. This document is only 3 pages to the lawsuit's 64 pages; but appears to cover many of the same points. 


New York State law is pretty murky on the matter. There is a typographical error in the law for starters, and it still specifies "two ore more shots with single pull (of the trigger)". While Rare Breed won't sell them here, I'm not sure they are technically illegal; though I sure wouldn't want to test out the knowledge of the state police on the matter... I'll wait and see how this case works out first.

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I read all that last night - and they LAID IT OUT... well...

First, you're fuckin' with a Lawyer that decided to build a TRIGGER. 

THEN, that Lawyer asked a couple VERY HIGH UP BATFE people what they thought about his trigger design... Results?  LEGIT!  GET IT!


So, even later, he refined it, and he asked TWO DIFFERENT HIGH-UP PEOPLE IN THE BATFE WHAT THEY THOUGHT...   Astounding...  SMAAAART motherfucker, right there...   :hail:

They then state...  YEAH, That's LEGIT, hard to argue the current LAW ON THE BOOKS ON THAT ONE!...  Go for it. :thumbup:

This will get Spicy.  :popcorn:

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He's a lawyer. 4 dudes on his side all worked with BATFE, and all were heavily into the FTB or other high-up positions, backing him...

I think this one will get real...   BUT!!!

There are ramifications to BATFE, BIDEN, DOJ...   taking this one ON - HEAD ON!!! 

They don't want this fight.  Because of this statement, RIGHT HERE...   :bat:

Paragraph 23 in the suit...

23. In other words, ATF may promulgate and enforce rules under this section of the United States Code, but ATF has no authority to change the Code or the Code’s definition of what constitutes a “machinegun”.


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