A.James

Awesome! Yeah I was looking into that barrel specifically. 1016S-HYR I believe the part number is. Thanks for the recommendation! Found it for around two ninety, you think that’s a decent price?

I loved it there too, and I agree, could never live there again.

Southern habits die hard... sir. I’m a little jealous of your space freedom, but maybe third time’s the charm - they say! 😉 Thank you, regardless of your modesty, you definitely do your part on this forum. Thanks for hanging in there with me!

Thank you sir!

Thanks guys. I suppose I was trying to hit a homer on the first pitch... high hopes? Yeah I think so, but the higher we set our goals, the greater heights we can achieve. I’ll be paying a bit more in the long run probably, but those dollars will be well spent to acquire the experience to tune it myself, hopefully with the guidance of those willing to continue to lend a hand. I’ll put together a parts list tomorrow and post it here. If anything looks incompatible and you happen to notice, please let me know! Thank you all again for the advice and schooling. So much. I have a bit more confidence moving forward at this point and I’m excited to get my hands dirty. I’ll update here as I grab stuff - might be kind of slow going from here on out, thanks for sticking around! Knowing myself, I’m sure I’ll get onto some deeper topics as this thing starts to come together, but I’ll try to keep my future posts on more an update basis rather than a request for full on lessons like I’ve been so blessed with. Thanks again everyone. I’m excited to talk more when I’ve got something to show from these great talks! 🙏

I think you are confirming my final sentiment from my previous post. My “cry once” will be worth the gains of experience and firsthand understanding. I appreciate your push in this direction, especially because it saves my wallet (until I get to the range for troubleshooting). I don’t think I’m over thinking it, but based on your comment here, I believe I may be thinking that the bandwidth of efficacy of these buffer changes is greater than it actually is. Perhaps I was thinking changing the buffer weight could have a 20x effect when in reality it could only be a 2x effect (just throwing out hypothetical/relative numbers). I’ve shot enough to know that comparable rifles shoot differently, maybe my strongest asset to gain would be range time and evaluation on a personal level. Then I could report back with my perceptions, refer to the ideas of the great minds here, and nail down some factual specs to go along with my [near future] experiences. I get physics, and I know Mr. Stoner probably evaluated the ideas I’m bringing up here. But, he tested all his theories and solidified a working system through endless experimentation. I’m not trying to improve upon his parameters, just trying to sync the [never ending .308AR] modifications that we see today (including my goals on this build) with the proven specs he came up with - thanks DPMS! Lol... Wasn’t he first concerned with overall gas pressure, which then led him to his design on barrel length vs. gas system length/diameter/flow vs. reciprocating mass?

Precisely what I was thinking. Looking at TBAC Ultra 7, the greater mass on the muzzle end has more inertia which would “fight” muzzle rise, the can captures some gas before bullet leaves barrel, lessening gas system pressure over time, but extending dwell time (perhaps marginally) compared to a bare muzzle... If I recall my homework correctly, the Ultra 7 is [anecdotally] pretty forgiving in the sense of back pressure to the receiver area relative to other suppressors I’ve looked into, which may require a lesser mass than [for discussions sake] HeavyBuffers’ maximum recommendations (up to 10 oz. rifle buffer) for suppressed use - especially if their evaluation of “suppressed use” involved testing of suppressors including those that have been reported to add significant back pressure to the receiver area. I’m still HOPING for a carbine length extension (either AR15 7” or AR10 7 5/8”) for a shorter collapsible stock length, but I feel if @98Z5V had issue WITHOUT suppressor on AR10 length rifle extension and rifle gas, 16” barrel length - pushing him toward 9.5~ish oz. of buffer + added [BCG] reciprocating mass total, I *MIGHT* need a similar amount of mass to sling those heavier projectiles with perhaps lighter powder loads, to stay on target, especially when suppressed. Which would mean my ideal stock and buffer system might be “not enough,” proving to require rifle buffer and stock. I’m trying to dial in the theory as close as possible before purchasing. Buy once. If it “tames” gas to recoil, then that would imply I need less total mass than 98 did based on his findings. The suppressor being added (as far as muzzle rise, inertia, physics; are concerned) kind of seems counter intuitive to the general “marketed” recommendation of additional buffer mass for suppressed use. I’m looking to find the best balance possible before adjusting the gas block. The adj. gas still reads [to me] as being the last step. Am I wrong here? Please correct any theory that is out of line. I feel like I’m being tutored for a test, and when I put my parts list together here (hopefully by page 3 😂) it will be my final exam as far as “should it work!?!” goes... I feel like we are getting into “set” gas block territory, and the adjustable gas block kind of greys-out some of this black and white. I think I’m really getting the hang of this .308AR theory, PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong. The more I understand about the scientific/physics variables to this overall equation, the more success I’ll have when I fire that first 20rd mag. For the record, the more time goes on in this thread, I’m beginning to feel like going for cheapest components at first may be my best bet. Gaining experience building/troubleshooting, as well as experience shooting and familiarizing myself with feel seems like the biggest win from my first 308 build. From there I could potentially increase buffer mass, improve parts one at a time until I have a bombproof weapons system. Then all those replaced parts (now spare parts) could be the foundation of my next experimental build. I’m not trying to skip steps, just trying to take as much time researching step 1 so I don’t shoot myself in the foot, METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING.

@sketch True. Lived in Seattle from 2013-2015, Colorado in 2016, back to Portland since 2017. I guess I’m naturalized at this point?

Hypothetically, yes. I’d hope I can find a solution in a carbine extension for a collapsible stock. I’m not sure 10oz would be necessary or even appropriate for my goals, so I guess that’s what I’m looking for advice on. The marketed applications on HeavyBuffers recommend more mass for suppressed weapons - from what I understand, to compensate for increased pressure that the suppressor might contribute to. Balancing the entire system. More mass needs more gas? The hypothetical shortfall of “too much buffer mass” being a gas port diameter that’s too small, right? (Including wide open on an adjustable gas block?) Conversely, more gas needs more mass? “Over-gassed” meaning buffer mass is too low...? Trying to test my understanding of the balance required. I’m beginning to foresee some of the issues I’ll probably run into in my first build, and it seems a lot of solutions have already been shared in the attached posts in this thread. The fix to having too much mass for the system would be to drill a larger diameter of the gas port? Sounds like lower total mass of the recoil system will jump up more vs. higher mass might dip down... This is more what I’m looking to address when I said diminishing returns. Then I could drill the gas port wide enough for proper cycling/function, and finally dial it into the zone with the adjustable gas block. The overall question is, “assuming I match my buffer mass to gas port diameter/entire gas system for the balance required for proper operation, what level of total mass will keep me the flattest?”

@jtallen83, I looked over those threads and read them from where you linked until the end. Had a GOOD laugh at the X-Caliber rep and all the flame he caught after his post. LOL!!! The threads there were pretty old, can you update me on how things worked out in the end? Have you heard of others running into similar problems with these barrels? I've read some bad reviews but also read a lot of good ones. Any comment on QC in recent years from X-Caliber? Thanks for sharing your experience!

Thanks! Just went back to read that one again. You already corrected me, using the standard buffer weight, adding mass ONLY to the BCG. I hear you loud and clear, mass could be in either position because it’s all working together. This “if I have that issue” is what I’m trying to avoid. Based on what I’m reading from you, other posters, and at HeavyBuffers, it seems more mass in the buffer/carrier will equate to softer recoil impulse - just plain physics, right? Is there a point of diminishing returns? Still TRYING to keep OAL down, I see a few options with the AR15 carbine vs. AR10 carbine vs. AR rifle buffer tubes and stocks: 7” AR15 Carbine tube with 6.5oz buffer allows shortest collapsible carbine stocks, improved recoil over standard 5.4oz buffer. Objectives #2 and #4 are upheld, #5 could still see improvement. 7 5/8” AR10 carbine tube with 8.5oz buffer allows more reciprocating mass with a slight addition to overall length - unless there is some collapsible/lightweight stock out there for this length receiver extension that I have yet to stumble upon. Objectives #2,4,5 are balanced here. 9 5/8” (I’ve also read 9 11/16”) AR rifle tube with 10oz buffer provides softest recoil at the cost of running a longer (and heavier) stock. Objective #2 goes right out the window, #4 is compromised, #5 is GOLD. To reiterate, I prefer to chase objective #5 at the cost of #4, but we’re losing a lot of clearance in order to make this gun shoot smoother. Again, does it need to be any smoother? Diminishing returns? I assume it will come down to shooters preference if/when to surpass a buffer weight that keeps the crosshairs on target. But I do feel like there is a minimum mass to aim for in order to balance the entire system. Anything beyond that is [mostly] comfort?

Damn. Those are a couple of cute little fur balls. Now, what was I reading about...? ...? ...Oh that’s right! 98’s Mk11 Mod 0!

I didn’t mean to sound like I didn't believe you, I echoed your statement. I was pouring over the schematics to try to figure out what the minimum barrel length could be on the RLGS, I wasn’t trying to disprove any info provided because I recognize the caliber of people I’m dealing with here. I’m the new kid in class. I’m learning new things. But I always read ahead, and ask questions for retention and understanding. 14.5” ain’t long enough, that’s a FACT. Never doubted ya. Like you said, until I have the barrel in my hands I won’t know for sure, I’m just speculating that 15” could be long enough. Maybe 15.1” - maybe 15.2” - maybe 15.3” etc., depending on how my barrel is drilled. And once again, we won’t know what’s possible with any given barrel until it’s in hand - because different manufacturers are doing different things with their .308AR barrels... Haha no worries, brother. My apologies if I seemed like a brat. Once again, based on everything I’ve read in your posts in this thread and in others, you’re very good at providing data to back up your facts. I’ve really begun to rely on your knowledge because it’s some of the only stuff out there that I trust. There is a lot of internet mumbo jumbo out there (claims), but the way you present your experience and back it up makes it super easy to swallow (facts). Didn’t mean to downplay the merit of your contribution by using the word “claims” - you’re legit. I’m very thankful for what you share!

Thanks for dropping by and welcome! Thank you for the links, as well! I’ve got more reading to do! I’ll probably add another post after I dive into those threads, to ask questions if there are any holes in my understanding. By all means, feel free to send links on the bolt/carrier front as well! I do my best to search before posting, but forum searches aren’t my strong suit. I can handle a web search, but for some reason in my past I have searched what I would consider exhaust-ably numerous terms before posting, only to have the first reply to my new thread be the link to a page that never came up in my searching. I’m forever sorry to any forum that had “yet another” post that has been beaten to death 100x before... 🤦‍♂️

Thanks for the warm welcomes, everyone! A couple of updates in that thread - going with 16" rifle gas, after some study I might be able to cut to 15" on RLGS, but 14.5" is TOO SHORT. I'll check back here occasionally to give updates for anyone who is interested. Current discussion in my thread is about to revolve around BCG - low mass vs. full mass - and buffer systems. Check it out if you're interested. Got a lot of good info from some very knowledgeable and experienced people here, as well as links to some important topics (which I believe are already pinned/sticky-ed).