PfcSnuffy

Hmm... impressive derailing. Also attacks.. hell yes. Appreciated. For you all not following - because I am not going to dredge a bunch of precision reloading links.. You use a 10" powder drop. Put powder in. Settle the powder. Place projectile in neck. Insert into seating die. Invert die. Use arbor press. The powder displaces differently. Maybe it is some backwater hoodoo, but those guys are claiming single digits for SD and ES. It seems the powder fills the empty spaces in cartridge. Most of my accurate loads were... around the datum point or slightly lower. We can argue what 100% case fill is. Maybe you mean literally to the top of neck... also, pending seating depths versus the physical shape of projectile you may be surprised what is actually 'compressed' or not. Point being, some of those loads may or may not be compressed due to actual lack of volume. Once more appreciated. For large amounts of information. Especially salted sergeant major's... it seems like at a point - when person A mentions something... if person B feels any way other than comfy.. there are attacks made. Reading this rapid derailing seems just to cement that.

I have been told it is possible to make well placed shots at that range with issued weapons... someone from snipershide did a video showing ipsc sized steel being hit at like 1100? Also, I have been told some people use bushings at .003 and .004" of sizing fit. Unsure how well it works. Suppose it is all a different animal.

What bullet are you using and at what velocity? Powder? Most precision shooting will use a seating die and a press. They put the bullet in, assemble the die and invert it. This makes powder fill the shoulder area around base of bullet. Keep in mind the primer is now at 12oclock, projectile at 6. Powder fills areas that cannot be filled when the primer is at 6oclock. It reduces the amount of crushing powder grains. Between that, uniform primer pockets and necks... people say it reduces ES. Enough those silly BR guys do this stuff regularly. Why not use the 130 otm over the 140's? The higher velocity and similar bc would almost make a flatter shot. Granted more drift, but.. better for unknown distances. The issue is, 30cals in the 150-155 range that could perform a better unknown distance shooting tend to be very secant and.. from my understand a real pain about getting good groupings from in gasgun. So, you are telling me with equal case prep and reloading.. good powder and projectiles.. I would not see much difference shooting to 800m? Which powders, projectiles and general charge weights? I thought about picking up some imr 3031 the other day. Had a chance. Then, running a 155 to 168 weight bullet. Loading for smallest groups and just dropping them indirect fire style downrange. Though, I am not entirely sold. I was asking about different grips - if anyone has a bunch for some comparisons of opinion.

So, if I am going to single load each round and am not part of a formal fighting unit... is it worth getting a new barrel and bolt, dies, projectiles and running 130gr otm's? Like; inside neck expanding mandrels, lathing outside neck dimensions to uniform standing, reaming all primer pockets to be uniform. Use a drop tube, settle the powder.. Turn the round upside down before seating projectile. Use a precision arbor press with guage. Ensure runout is minimal. How much more could I see in benefit? If... no costs are considered. Would the 18" heavy barrel do fine? Stick with the 10oz buffer or go lighter? Will be suppressed... Nightforce sells at a reasonable discount to me, so... what glass? Nx8 2.5 to 20? Or.. just get the atacr 5-20? The 1-8x nx8 has a decent reticle and would work well. I am sure it would provide ample stretch room.. well past 600yards. Though, it's overall precision may begin to fade. Lastly - anyone have a surplus of pistol grips sitting around? My miad grip is ok.. but, I am considering the tactical deluxe from ergo. Similar angle of grip. Just overmolded and more palm swell. Right now, I have a PSR atlas bipod in my sights. Going to swap my angled grip off, use the tall bipod as a handstop/forward stop.. slap some ergo/bcm keymod skins on the handguard between bipod and use mini vert grip behind the grip panels(closer to mag). Any good keymod qd mounts? I looked at the bcm ones. Currently have a ms1/ms4 magpul sling. It is... ok. But, I am not particularly fond of it. Only benefit I see is the ms4 attachment allows me to singlepoint the weapon while manualing up or down rough terrain. Hang it against my back. I am semi-interested in the sling JP vends. With that spring loaded buckle. My magpul slider will snag about anything and self adjust. Not acceptable. Appreciated. Hope to hear more. Thank you V/R Snuffy, McGee

So, what you are telling me is.. the guy who set this up as 18" m118lr chamber with rifle gas. A criterion hybrid barrel.. the geisselle dmr trigger, magpul a2 stock, 10oz heavy buffer, deewillson bcg(nitride) and a partskit ar15 package did well enough? It has non adjusting gasblock and nothing special for small parts. Also, that I am not going to get any better than what it is. Running 6.5 with a better bc bullet is also going to wash? Anything else?

Appreciated. Hopefully you get it stickied. Best luck with your shoot. I hope to hear good results in the future. No rush on that data chart. Push all that right. I suppose a lot has to do with your ammunition selected and tuning the firearm to it. If you were using max loads behind 168-180gr bullets... you may very well need the heavier weight to settle sights. Also, it looks like you are using a muzzle device. Pending the device nature.. it may be used to reduce perceived recoil instead of push the muzzle downward. -- As I stated, heavier mass drives the sights back into position. Which, as recoil energy goes up, so do the sights. Additionally.. if you are firing it off a bench, with bipod and sandbag.. it may be slightly different than when leaning into weapon. One thing I have noticed is posture affects things more than anything else. Even when zeroing my rattled out m4.. if I just let it sit softly on the bags, it will bounce a lot. Off of the mansized silhouette backer at 25m. ****** Far as service goes - boys... it the new army. They now allow transgender, long hair, painted nails, earrings, makeup. Anything a noncom does will likely cost them their career. It is easier to give 4856 words and let the chapter begin. Wait two years and the problem gone with a bar. Enough said right there...... ****** My initial thought was using a .06# gas port and progressively enlarging it until the weapon ran consistent and reliable when hosting suppressor and firing specific load. Though, that may prove to be a pain. There would have to be an err of margin, being still overgassed.. compensating for lot variance in powders, also while allowing for a range of powders in a specific category of burn chart. Though, that is same idea issued weapons run on... just I would like to be less over gassed. I tried using that 10oz heavy buffer from slash in this 308 configuration. All I will say is, the jp scs and reducing gas a bit made the same loads feel much different. Now, all this said... unless I am using sling and in a good firing position, the 308 seems to bounce off target pretty often. To my knowledge, that has always been a concern. Plunging effect and recoil. For many groups using precision weapons.... Which is my push for better bc's and more modern expanding projectiles. I am not held to warfare conventions as an individual... so.. Thank you to all whom are and have been participating. I appreciate all of you equally. Hope that nothing I have said was taken to be insult or arguementive. Not how was intended or delivered on my end. V/R Snuffy

Ever fired a 240? The recoil in it is more abusive than an ar308/ar10. The large frame ar has significantly less mass, both reciprocating and static. Keep in mind, the reciprocating system is probably five times the weight of an ar308. What is in motion tends to stay in motion. I would rather have 1.5lbs at 20mph punch a 12lbs piece of metal into my chest over a 5lbs piece at 20mph punch a 20lbs piece into my chest. The more I can make static while reducing the reciprocating, by all means will alter the recoil feel. I much prefer a push over a punch. Now, all the same.. if I use less energy to push a smaller weight, it should by theory travel at an equal or slower rate. Keep in mind, the total or 'net' energy will not change. I simply want to create more of a soft pulse. Now, the reason why that machinegun uses a heavy operating system is to drive the muzzle forward. It helps settle the weapon and create more consistent grouping by resisting muzzle rise. However, on a semi-automatic.. I see little to no purpose of this. The other purpose is to overcome friction, thus allowing said weapon to chamber and fire the following round. Now.. with a slightly tighter set of tolerances, more well polished surfaces(reduced friction), less dirty powder(less gumming of action/receiver) and better consistency of rounds(charge weight, projectile weight&dimensions, brass tolerance).. by theory, a person could run a well tuned machine to the term of reliably. Or, so could be argued. Plenty of people run 38super 2011 pistols with a 45k psi loading, pushing 115 or 124gr bullets to same power levels as a factory load 45acp and have no issues. One must keep in mind, that race gun may require impressive cleaning and maintenance, BUT it also can never fail. One malfunction means a lost paycheck. Which, when thousands are on the line... Military standards are for a reason. Not because it is required for combat either. Ever met half of the enlisted troop? A lot of them are bare minimum, lie and procrastinate types of people. I would be confident enough based upon race pistol experience that.. so long a person did not run a skeletonized weapon, while keeping it properly maintained - it may not be a real issue. If they understood maintenence and handloads were a standard requirement.

Well, ideally in a perfect world.. in theory it would change the recoil impulse. Though, one would be able to argue both directions; Less moving mass equals less sight disruption Less moving mass means less forward momentum, which equals less muzzle dip. Could be a good/bad thing. Honestly, the main purpose is to reduce gas present in receiver. Less blowback, less issues. Again, razor's edge. DI is dirty, but seems to be more consistent in groups than oprod guns. Or so I hear. Though, I have noticed that most guns are overgassed significantly. Which, if the weapon were maintained well.. along with consistent ammunition using a specific burn rate/range of propellant.. theoretically, the amount of gas being returned into the carrier could be reduced by measurable margin. Especially if intending to run suppressed only. The notion about JP's split gasblock was due to it's attachment method. Would allow me to use a flange on barrel larger than gasblock journal. So a form1 could be threaded on as described previously. So, would you have a list of known functioning dimensions of gas system stickied anywhere? I must have missed that...

So, any cheapo h2/h3 buffer will do me then. Ok. Sounds good. How are the tweaked and tuned toys running with lightweight carriers and buffers, when paired with a heavy spring? You have mentioned a few times the gas port size varies versus the diameter of barrel where gas block attaches. Do larger diameters use larger ports, due to a longer travel path at said size?

Not the KAC special gas block and suppressor? I never really understood the purpose of their spring setup under gasblock. Aem5 is pretty slick. I always thought a tapered thread and machined flange between gasblock and muzzle would make for an amazing reflex mount. Solid lockup and less distortion on the end of barrel. The aem somewhat does that. Though, I would much prefer a larger diameter barrel and effectively floating the muzzle. Truth be told.. I have a mill, lathe and decent welder. Have been looking into form1 suppressors.. Still torn on what size barrel I ought do for this long gun. This is why I have been asking about gas system lengths, port sizes and considerations to other factors.

Got the pin on suppressor to go with it?

Interesting. Appreciated. So, the .083 to .089" port at m16 rifle length gas will be just fine. Yeah, I suspect a generic stainless bull blank spun down and fluted should give good results. Initially I had planned either brux or krieger. Though, I never turn down options for learning. What was said by fellow at bartlein.. definitely enlightened me. I have never used this vld chamfer tool. Will investigate. My rcbs case prep station does basic work over five steps. How do you like the 500 blackout? Never heard of it before. 50cal out of 338 lapua mag brass at 1000fps? Ugh... I have a 338 spectre build slowly going but.. yeah. Good luck. I have heard a lot of people say lee crimp die. Always used some rcbs or similar taper crimps. After looking at the 300gr 338cal otm berger has, against the 950fps muzzle velocity.. I almost thought to just use a 22" heavy fluted bull barrel for a 6.5creed with 1:8 twist and launch those 130otm's at 2900fps. Use the spectre for sub 300 yard business. Drops like cannonball, but it loses only 60fps between muzzle and 300. May just go with a 4-20atacr and 1-8 nx8. As said, appreciated. You mentioned using the armalite springs. Any reason that specific spring over any others? I have used the jp silent capture, the tubbs springs, even tried the slash heavy buffer business.... eh.. i think the tubbs spring and adjusting gas worked "best"(easiest).. the silent capture was nice. More work than the tubbs route and not certain if it is actually "more efficient". Though, it is nice by merit. Not likely ever to use the heavy buffer system again. Really thinking about switching to a light mass buffer and carrier for the long gun. I am pretty consistent with cleaning. Although, reducing mass in rear of rifle does offset balance. Makes me think about few other things. Have seen people put lead weights in a2 stocks and the ubr stocks. Appreciate your time. Please, feel free to fire at will your experiences all over this thread.. until you suffer from a flaming barrel and pile of dissentigrated links crowding your nest. Have any you all tried the spikes tungsten powder buffers and seen real world results being different or noticed versus a standard tungsten slug buffer? I am curious - but.. after being bitten by other snakeoils. Thank you all. V/R Snuffy

I had looked at a can that would add only six inches to barrel length. Thus giving the feel of 24" barrel. Spoke with.. Mark(?) at Bartlein. He gave me a ring this morning. We spoke for a few minutes. Basically recommended their new proprietary stainless. Said carbon has almost gone away and said to not bother at all with chrome linings. He also stated that gain twist helps but it is only a minimal difference. That increasing twist ought be kept between 0.5 to 1.0 rate increase. Such as 1:9 to 1:8. Additionally he naysayed the qpq/melonite/nitride business as well. Something about it alters barrel tempering and changes dimensions. Suppose I learned a lot.. Think it sounds like I ought run a generic stainless barrel, unsure if paying for two barrels and getting one with their fancy new alloy is worth it... because a bull barrel blank in carbon is going to be 12months wait, according to them. Also, why the armalite coil spring versus the flatwire action springs? In theory, roundwire will offer less drag.. which is nice. Though it seems that flat wires have more spring weight when the bolt is closed? All guidance about powders, gas systems(port size&location), recoil systems(reciprocating system mass. Total of buffer and bcg), spring rates.. wonderful and appreciated. Very much so. I was looking at shooterworld powders. Either long rifle or sw4350. They claim longrifle is made for the creedmoor. Will refer to more book load data about the 130gr bullets. Again, am suspecting that selection of most fast burning powder will probably yield best results. Idea is, allows suppressor to catch all the expanding gas.. rather than there being a portion of unburned powder igniting inside the can. Would need to estimate burn rates and try some powders that have a high 90's percent of burn before exiting muzzle. Stopped by to update everyone. Please fill me in on your experiences please. Thank you. V/R Snuffy

I meant to say, roughly 6minutes of drop at 500m. Comes out on book right about 7minutes. Apologies, my brain sometimes gets fuzzy. 400m is 5minutes. Estimating roughly a 42" drop at 500m. Using 130gr at 2800fps. Explain more, will check back tonight. Have to go do that report thing. Lord knows we all love hearing cannons and the sky making funny sounds while standing inna rectangular shape every morning. Snuffy

Using berger calculator, their 6.5mm 130gr otm at 2800fps smokes their 30cal 175gr otm moving at 2500fps. The 175 has almost the same energy, however is 0.3seconds slower to 1000m and is moving right at 1100fps. That is the flutter zone. 6.5mm is still moving ~1500fps. Which arguably means that 130gr otm will open decently. At least to 800m. Whereas the 175gr is likely not opening past 600m. I think the creed would be a better choice. Reduced case capacity and a better shoulder angle to reduce throat erosion versus a 260. I like the 260rem, when it is blow forward into a 6.5-08 40* improved. Wonderful when loading to 2.9" coal with the 140gr bullets and a nice 24" barrel. Makes a screaming bolt gun. Though for gas gun.. the extra capacity seems pointless to my ends. Even at a 22" barrel and suppressor.. it gets heavy. Bolt gun on a light stock, you will notice it less. Appreciate you. Not insulting, degrading or demeaning. Just my personal views. These are opinion and not fact. If your opinions on usage or selection vary, I am not upset.. I am not trying nor will try to sway you either. Again, this is what I see based upon many reported load datas and ballistic charts. It seems to fit my overall needs. Plunging effect and prolonged flight time of 308 are... challenging. Currently, I am burning the barrel out of the rifle using m118lr loads off a dillon. Experience is priceless. However, when the barrel gives ghost, I want something better. Please, explain more about all the barrel journal diameter vs gas port diameter business and elaborate as to why the extended gas systems are not needed? I had initially thought going to a h1 buffer and a light mass carrier with extending the gas would be wise. Less jarring effect on ammunition during chambering. Allowing me to use a .003 or .004 neck tension via bushing. Whatever was tight, but did not cut/shave jacket while seating. But, the less momentum means more probability of stoppages. Life is always a compromise. Sadly. V/R Snuffy