bugman

That's a good looking rig. I would be proud to own that. Hope I can turn out something like that soon, that just runs like a sewing machine. Been working and studying on this build waaaay too much lately. The odd thing is though, I have really enjoyed it. The gun didn't work at all, until I found this forum. Felt good to bring it that far. Just need to smooth it out. And if I can't do that, I'll start again.

I hope you're wrong about that, but I wouldn't bet against you. It's been a frustrating project for sure--all the makings are there now, but it won't quite come together like I want it to. So close.

I'm not bitin' just growlin' a little bit! I'm not that bad a guy, although it probably seems that way by now. I'll try to keep it light and easy. I'm just not ready to junk her yet. Can't let go, seems like I'm so close to an awesome gun.

MAN, this guy is nothing BUT cheap little comments. Can we go back to talking about rifles?

Why would I go off on you? You haven't done anything but help me, so far.

Whoa, looks like I stepped in the yellow jacket nest this time, didn't I? Y'all settle down, I'm not throwin' shade. I came here for some serious help and advice, and have gotten exactly that from almost everybody. But I have a low tolerance for people wasting my time, as I'm sure each of you men does, and unforgiven went over his limit yesterday. I had to call him on it. Hopefully his ego has not been shattered and he can recover from it. I'm already over it. Now I'm off to do some push-ups, as sketch recommended. Hope y'all have a good day.

Got it. I'll shoot him a message. Thanks!

Damn it all, now you have annoyed me. Your badge says "Specialist." What exactly is your specialty, running your mouth? If you don't have anything constructive to say, I wish you would just pipe down. That way if somebody posts some actual help it won't get lost in your inane ramblings. By the way, a butt pad? A BUTT PAD? My 5-year-old son suggested the same thing. Can he be a "Specialist" too?

I thought that might be the case. Any idea what it should be? Am I anywhere close?

Nothing wrong with the shoulders, but there will be if I keep shooting this gun. I have bolt rifles in 308, 30-06, 300WM, you name it. Any and all of those are tamer than this beast. I just don't understand. I think we can say the recoil system is nailed. I've got a receiver extension with the proper depth, and the most mass and stiffest spring they make. The problem must be elsewhere.

Got another 308 build that I started and couldn't finish, or couldn't get right (yet). I think I've got most of the low-hanging fruit on this one, but I'm missing something, that's for sure. Here's the waterboarding info: Armalite AR10 recoil system? NO Buffer weight: 5.36 oz Buffer length: 5.296" Extension buffer tube internal depth: 9-5/8" measured (Aero) Buffer spring: Armalite EA-1095 (13-5/8" length, 34 coils) Gas system length: rifle Gas tube length: 15-1/8" Photo in Magwell Photo of bolt face BCG clearance at ears: PLENTY / BCG clearance at bolt stop: 0.10" Gas journal diameter: 0.750" / Gas port diameter: #48 drill bit GOES (.076), #47 DOES NOT GO (.078) Description of malfunction: weak ejection (like less than a foot, but the brass is getting out), and bolt never holds open on last round (multiple known-working magazines tested) Additional information: Criterion barrel M118LR, 18" rifle gas, 1-10T, chrome lined Lantac Enhanced BCG with Aero Precision bolt (I have read in this forum that people have had issues with the Aero Precision bolt catch being too short for this carrier, but not sure if that's what is going on here) Shooting Hornady #80971 Black 308 Win 168 Gr A-Max What do y'all think about it? Greatly appreciate any help.

That's worth a shot, too.

I'm using the OSS 7.62 flow-through suppressor. I don't notice any big difference between when it's on and when it's off (other than the volume maybe). I think I'm probably on the edge of having some function problems from carrier speed already, so I wonder what would happen if I put a baffle can on the end. I would test this out and report back, but it's already in the mail.

Just a quick update on this gun, in case anybody is still interested. I felt like I had thrown too much money at this thing to just give up and let it continue to beat up my shoulder for all time. So I did a few more things: 1) I ordered an Armalite receiver extension with the correct spec (7-5/8" depth), instead of using quarters inside that other thing I bought. The 3 quarters worked, but I just don't like doing that. I know that makes me weird. Anyway, I believe that solves any possible problem with my recoil system, since I'm already running the heaviest buffer and stiffest spring I can find. 2) I contacted Sprinco and talked to Alan Dugger, mostly just to make sure he wasn't aware of any other spring options that might work. He said Orange was the stiffest on the market, but he did suggest looking into a "configurable" gas tube, called EZTUNE from Black River Tactical. (Here's a link: https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/BRT-EZTUNE-Gas-Tube-Configurable-Midlength-p103167236) . I had no idea that a product like this even existed, but I guess it is supposed to perform the same gas-reduction function as an adjustable gas block, but without the hassle of having to adjust it, or the likelihood that it will eventually seize up. Do any of y'all have knowledge or experience with this? 3) I decided to hold off on the EZTUNE, and instead I called Criterion to ask if there was some mistake with my gas port size. I talked to Michael Ross, and he confirmed that the port size was indeed supposed to be in the range I gave, but could not understand the recoil and ejection problem either. He sent me a shipping label to send my barrel and upper (BCG and all) for him to look at. Not sure what I can expect Criterion to do about it....if the problem is that the port is too large, I'm don't know what can be done to fix that, other than possibly a new barrel. Anyway, I sent it off yesterday, and will update when I hear back. Hope y'all are doing well.

Thanks. I haven't had a chance to try out the third US quarter yet, but I'll keep working with this and hopefully find a good combination of coins.

Thanks. Do you know the brand on that? I found one from V Seven but they are quite proud of it ($$$)...

Well, that is a shame. Wish I had that $85 back, I tell you that much. I'll give Clint another try tomorrow, but even if I did get the money back, I'm still not sure how I would spend it, other than getting a 7-5/8" tube that is actually 7-5/8". After all, the rifle did run using the "extra deep" tube from Clint (after the addition of 2 quarters), but even with 8.5 oz of buffer and the Armalite EA-1095 spring, the recoil and ejection were about the same as everything else I tried. If there are no further suggestions on what to try next, I may just take yes for an answer and be happy it cycles. That's leaps and bounds ahead of where I first started!

OK, here are the pictures. These first two are of the receiver extension as it was BEFORE giving it an additional turn. It appears almost perfectly flush to the receiver to my eye: These next two are AFTER I gave it (1) more full turn. It's sticking out visibly now, by about 0.056" I measured. What do you think?

I'll have to file it down to get another turn. I'll give it a shot, but it might not look too pretty. Guess it'll be hidden anyway.

Thanks for reading through this, I know it was long. Thing 1: You're exactly right about the buffer tube, it's not a VLTOR product. I bought it off Clint @ HeavyBuffers.com. Here's the product info taken from his site: Here's where I measured the *internal* depth myself: I did email Clint about the depth, and he said it was normal and not a problem. But my BCG was within 0.05" of hitting the receiver, so I had to add quarters to make it work. Thing 2: Not to worry, I'm not running the 4" buffer in this setup; if so, I'm sure we'd be having a very different conversation right now. The buffer I bought (the XH Carbine Buffer, also from Clint/HeavyBuffers) is 3.25" long, but weighs 8.5 oz (I confirmed this on the scale). Clint's website calls this the "heaviest standard length carbine buffer on the market." Here's a link to the page where I bought it: https://heavybuffers.com/xhcar.html I might have been using the term "A5" a little reckless; it sounds like that might be more of a proprietary thing, specific to VLTOR, as opposed to a pattern. What I should have said was "A5-compatible" or something like that. I don't have an extensive history in .308 Win, but I have shot several 308 AR's, including one of the DPMS small frame 308 rifles, and I can tell you that, for whatever reason, this build has turned out pretty violent, despite my best attempts to settle it down. The primary use for this gun will ultimately be whitetail deer hunting in the 100 - 400 yard range, but I'm not going to be much good with it if I can't tame it somewhat.

I'm using a brake, but I'm not sure how effective it is. It's the 4-port brake that goes with the OSS flow-through style can. I'm afraid my options are limited for muzzle devices.

Good evening gents, I'm hoping some of you heavy-duty problem solvers out there can help me out with my Aero M5 308 build. Based on info from this forum, I have been able to get the gun running. It will shoot, reliably, and for that I'm grateful. However, my new problem is that it's rough as hell. Kicks like a mule, and consistently ejects 8-10 feet at 1:30 or so. I hate to see what it might do when I try to put a suppressor on the end of it. In an effort to tame it, I have done some experiments to this rifle (one at a time); therefore it has gone through several "iterations" which I will describe below using the Waterboarding template. In all cases, the gun functioned, but all suffered from the same un-smooth shooting characteristics (heavy recoil and far-forward ejection). ITERATION #1 Armalite AR10 recoil system? NO Buffer weight: 6.5 oz advertised, 6.63 oz measured Buffer length: 2.5" advertised, 2.6195" measured Extension buffer tube internal depth: 6-15/16" measured (Aero) Buffer spring: Brand: HeavyBuffers.com Custom 308 Carbine Spring Length: 11-5/16" measured Coil count: 28 coils Gas system length: Mid-length Gas tube length: 11-3/4" advertised and measured Photo in magwell Photo of bolt face BCG clearance at: Receiver ears: 0.287" Bolt stop: unknown, but adequate Gas Journal diameter: 0.750" Port diameter: #49 drill GOES (but barely) 0.073" #48 drill DOESN'T GO (0.076") Description of problem: heavy recoil and ejection at 1:30. Carrier moving too fast? Additional info: No significant damage to brass (see pics) Using Aero BCG - 18.48 oz assembled weight; "tail" length of 4.6095" Barrel is Criterion M118LR, chrome lined, 16" mid-length gas ITERATION #2 Changed bolt carrier to Lantac "Enhanced" Bolt Carrier (using same Aero bolt from Iteration #1). The Lantac Enhanced Carrier is advertised as having "increased mass" and "larger vents" (their words, not mine) presumably to help remedy overgassed condition. However, I thought it was noteworthy that the assembled weight of the Lantac Enhanced BCG was actually less (18.02 oz) than the Aero BCG. All other elements from Iteration #1 remained unchanged This change yielded NO IMPROVEMENT, and no difference at all, that I could perceive. ITERATION #3 Switched back to Aero BCG from Iteration #1 Refer to Waterboarding Item #5 Changed buffer spring to Sprinco Orange: Length: 11-1/4" measured Coil count: 28 coils The spring itself felt a little bit stiffer than the HeavyBuffers.com Custom 308 Carbine Spring This change also yielded NO IMPROVEMENT ITERATION #4 Decided to change out the whole recoil system entirely, to get more mass and hopefully a better spring. Ordered an A5 tube, 3.25" XH Buffer, and EA-1095 spring from HeavyBuffers.com Refer to the following Waterboarding Items that changed: #2 - Buffer weight: 8.5 oz #3 - Buffer length: 3.25" #4 - Extension buffer tube internal depth - 7-5/8" advertised; 7-13/16" measured All other elements from Iteration #1 remained unchanged NOTE: I did not believe this setup provided the BCG adequate clearance at the receiver ears due to the increased depth of the receiver extension beyond the advertised 7-5/8", or maybe I just have a short bolt carrier. It was only going to clear by less than 0.05", not accounting for compression of the buffer bumper. I decided to throw in a couple of quarters to prevent the carrier from smashing my lower receiver, which was effective, if not somewhat inelegant. Be that as it may... This change yielded NO IMPROVEMENT ITERATION #5 Last ditch effort. Replaced EA-1095 spring with Sprinco Orange (11-1/4" length; 28 coils) All other elements from previous Iteration (#4) remained unchanged. This change also yielded NO IMPROVEMENT So after all that, the rifle is still beating me up and ejecting at 1:30, I never saw it let up in any noticeable way. You guys have any thoughts? Can I smooth this thing out somehow, or should I just be happy that it runs at all? Here are a few possible solutions I have considered, but I wanted to get some feedback from yall before trying these, or anything else (I'm running short of funds for further experimentation...) Stiffer spring for A5 system? I have seen the Stag Arms buffer spring mentioned specifically. Would that be a possibility? Or something else? Since I already have the heaviest A5 buffer I can find, should I consider changing the recoil system (again) to a rifle system? That way maybe I could get up to a 10 oz buffer, and possibly have some additional spring options. The only thing I'm sure I would NOT want to try is an adjustable gas block. My experience with those has not been positive. Greatly appreciate any words of wisdom.

Morning all. New member from GA. Jumped into large frame AR's feet first a couple of years ago, and ended up frustrated with an assortment of parts (and a couple of rifles) that don't work well, if at all. Time to get scientific. Just to start off, I have seen the topic of flat wire buffer springs mentioned in a couple of threads, specifically how they are not recommended. However I have (so far) not been able to locate any further discussion on the reasons for this. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I believe you that they can be problematic, I'd just like to understand how so. What experiences have y'all had that caused you to replace a flat wire spring? Thanks, and look forward to learning from you all.