Jump to content
308AR.com Community
  • Visit Aero Precision
  • Visit Brownells
  • Visit EuroOptic
  • Visit Site
  • Visit Beachin Tactical
  • Visit Rainier Arms
  • Visit Ballistic Advantage
  • Visit Palmetto State Armory
  • Visit Cabelas
  • Visit Sportsmans Guide

SHOOTER13

Members
  • Posts

    21
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About SHOOTER13

  • Birthday 07/22/1954

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    PENNSYLVANIA
  • Interests
    Firearm Collecting

SHOOTER13's Achievements

Newbie

Newbie (1/14)

  1. Thanks Bob...
  2. Thanks...
  3. SHOOTER13

    Debate

    Awesome read...thanks !!
  4. Thanks for the link Sisco...
  5. Thanks...I will look into it.
  6. Thanks guys...that's the kind of info I've been looking for.
  7. Here:
  8. Can I ask YOU what you own and why you made that particular choice... Pics and tech data included if you please. { Any other manufacturer platforms I may have missed...in my price range / tech points ? } Any and All Help Appreciated. Thanks...
  9. Understood...read that a GAS PISTON system really beats up the AR platform. Operating Systems The AR is a self-loading rifle that performs a basic set of functions without manual assistance from the operator. After the trigger is pressed, the gun must fire a cartridge, extract the fired case, eject it, pick up a fresh cartridge and transfer it from the magazine into the chamber, lock the breech and cock the hammer (or striker) to return the rifle to battery—a round in the chamber, ready to fire with another press of the trigger. It’s really a straightforward mechanical operation. The best and brightest firearms designers have achieved it for the past 120 years with a variety of ingenious solutions. Two of those solutions are the direct gas impingement system and the short stroke gas piston system. Eugene Stoner utilized the impingement system in the AR. It works by bleeding propellant gases through a port at the end of the barrel and channeling the gases back through a tube to directly strike, or impinge, a bolt carrier, thereby pushing it rearward to extract and eject the fired case and, as it’s propelled forward by a spring, to strip a fresh round and push it into the barrel’s chamber. A short stroke gas piston system is what Mikhail Kalashnikov used on his AK-47. The piston system also relies on propellant gases that are bled through a small hole in the barrel, but instead of the gases traveling through a tube to impact a bolt carrier, the gases are contained in a cylinder in which there is a piston, like in a car. The gases push the piston, which in turn is connected by a rod to a bolt carrier that moves rearward to extract and eject the fired case and, moving forward from spring pressure, strip a fresh round from a magazine, chamber it and lock into battery. What’s causing a fork in the AR road right now is that a number of manufacturers have decided to modify the Stoner design to operate with a piston system instead of an impingement system. The question before the house is: Do we need to fix the AR with a new operating system and, if so, do the new piston systems achieve that remedy? An Answer In Search Of A Question The sole claim to fame of a piston system is that it’s more reliable than an impingement system. The reason given is that hot, dirty gases are not spewed into the action of the rifle like the direct impingement system, fouling itself with heat and carbon, depositing black crud all over the bolt carrier. Instead, the gases are contained in a gas cylinder which is self-cleaning. No one asserts that piston systems are more accurate or more durable, just that they’re more reliable because the bolt carrier is not caked with fouling and subjected to scalding heat. Advocates of the piston system are quick to ask, “Why would you dump hot, dirty gases where your rifle feeds?” There’s no question that heat and fouling are highly detrimental to moving parts in a firearm. The solution, however, does not necessarily require redesigning the whole gun. Fouling problems can be avoided quite easily with a marvelous little thing called lubrication. “Keep her wet. That’s how you run an AR,” a hard-bitten range master once told me. “I don’t care what you squirt in there—BreakFree, WD-40, lime juice. It doesn’t matter. Soak her good.” Unintended Consequences Even if you take the argument of the piston system at face value—that it’s more reliable—you still have the law of unintended consequences to deal with. First, piston guns generate more felt recoil than impingement guns (although that’s not a huge detriment since we’re talking about a 5.56 mm here, a “poodle shooter” as Col. Cooper sniffed). More importantly, however, a piston system alters the mechanics and timing of an AR in a manner that a growing number of shooters are claiming is harmful to the gun. There are new systems being developed, tested and marketed now, but generally the problem is that a piston system is attempting to retroactively adapt a bolt carrier that was designed to function with direct impingement. What we’re seeing are piston systems substituted for the gas tube of an impingement system by simply inserting a piston into the mechanism. The same buffer system is used to return the bolt carrier into battery, the same geometry of the bolt carrier is utilized and the same timing of the cycle rate is retained. The only difference, really, is that a piston system gives the bolt carrier a mighty whack with a piston instead of blowing gas into it. The geometry is the same. The area of the bolt carrier that is being impacted by the piston is where the gas key would be on an impingement system. In fact, many of the piston systems simply replace the gas key on the bolt carrier with a flat-faced nubbin that is the anvil to the piston’s hammer. This protrusion is attached to the bolt carrier well ahead (toward the muzzle) of its center of gravity. Going back to see-saw 101, we realize that if a force is applied well in front of a pivot, what happens? The rear tilts. This see-saw effect is causing bolt carriers to tilt within the receiver, retarding their movement and imparting a non-linear force to the assembly. Stoner did not design the bolt carrier group to be hammered. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/4/13/ar-operating-systems-gas-impingement-vs-piston/
  10. Thanks Ranger...for your service to our country...and your opinion. Forgot about SIG...looked at Armalite...don't know about building one myself, but that IS an option. Also wanted to add to my above criteria...( Damn EDIT button disappears too fast ) not really set on gas piston setup...and I will be adding a can at some future point. ( Hopefully after the NFA is trashed )
  11. Well...I'm in the market for a 7.62x51mm MSR and would like to elicit some help on the decision from the membership here. I prefer the Short Stroke Gas Piston over Direct Gas Impingement...and will probably tack on a Leupold optic besides a BUIS system. Checking all the sites listed here...and keeping in mind my $2,500 max price point...I prefer / but am not stuck on the following platforms: Fulton FAR-308 Lineup { 18.5" Barrel / 1:10 Twist } http://www.dpmsinc.com/308-RECON_ep_93-1.html DPMS Recon { 16" HBAR / 1:10 Twist } http://www.dpmsinc.com/308-RECON_ep_93-1.html Remington R25 GII { 20" Barrel / 1:10 Twist } https://www.remington.com/rifles/modern-sporting/model-r-25-gii/model-r-25-gii I own plenty of rifles: Rem 700 BDL in 7mm Rem Mag...Remington 7600 Pump 30.06 Springfield...M1 Garand...Two Olympic 5.56 AR's...multiple .22 rifles and major caliber handguns. Really want a nice 7.62 to ring steel at long range and to hunt deer / bear in Pennsylvania... Can I ask YOU what you own and why you made that particular choice...pics and tech data included if you please. { Any other manufacturer platforms I may have missed...in my price range / tech points ? } Any and All Help Appreciated. Thanks...
  12. Thanks Gentlemen... I will be starting a thread to see what others here recommend for my first .308 AR Platform...
  13. Thanks...Stayed in La Jolla...right off the Torrey Pines Golf Course when on TDY for the DoD visiting US NB San Diego / CNIC Amphibious Base Coronado back in 1999... Also MCAS Miramar when it was still Top Gun... Been to Cali lots of times actually...Monterey, Santa Monica, LA, San Fran, up and down the coast.
  14. Thanks.. Had a summer getaway in Georgetown, MD...right off the Sassafras River, a tributary of the Chesapeake Bay in Cecil County. Miss that place...still have friends in that area...near Galena.
×
×
  • Create New...