Brenten

makes sense. I think that the major ammo makers will be doing this as well to accommodate all of the quality short barreled platforms.

The only stuff I use is duracoat, much more durable so I can't comment, but here is a link to dark earth duracoat: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=612422

I am limited to using an M4 for work. But if I had a choice between a 7.62x39 or 308 I would choose the 308 as it offers much more penetration even in an 11 inch platform regardless of the size. An 11 inch 308 has so much more power it isn't even close. But you are right the velocity loss going to 11 inches is closer to 200 or maybe more. Still the knockdown power of the 308, even in the short 11 barrel is incredible.

I like this site and enjoy participating. Like all sites that get started, the word needs to get out. once it does, more and more people will come over. About the only thing I can recommend is to figure out a way to get this site to come up first in searches. One way to do this is to google something you know is on this site. Then click on the site and do the same thing a bunch of times. The more hits a site gets through google, the higher up in the chain it comes up.

200 fps? where did you get that? at best there is a 120 fps difference between the 16 and the 20 inch. Not much of a difference and definitely not worth the extra length, Unless you are planning 1000 yard shots. As for noise, any non silenced rifle will cause damage. An M4 with it's 14 inch barrel and rounds leaving the barrel at 3200 fps is much worse than a 308 traveling 500 fps less and guess what, that M4 is the most common assault weapon by gov/le/military. I have shot both short barreled 308's and short barreled 223's and the 223's are much more violent. My M4 with 14.5 barrel is much worse than my POF 308 11.5 inch barrel. The point of what I posted was to show reality about the differences in velocity.

I bet they load the 185's routinely both regular and subsonic. One thing I noticed is how hot the lapua ammo is out of the KAC.

So on another thread here someone was asking about 16 inch barrel reach. I googled and came up with some very tall tales on another forum (THR). Some were saying 100ft/ser per inch lost, some were saying, 75 and 50. My experience has been that above 16 inches, the difference in velocity has not been much, 20-30 fps max. So I figured I would look up some old actual tests on the forum and put them in here to get an average of what reality is, not tall tales and opinions. First up is this: This came from gun end game. The difference in the 4 inches was 120 average or 30 fps per inch. next up is: from firing line. This difference ended up being 11 fps per inch. Next up is: In this one I took the 170 grain as a ball park and it gave a difference of 40 fps per inch, however you will note that this rifle shot much higher velocities than the other 308's. Better tuned gas action most likely. next up is: from THR. The guns were two DSA Stg58's. 138, 122, 145 and 142 fps were the differences. The average was 137 fps/ 4.75 inch barrel length difference gives 29 fps per inch. From G&A combat arms issue of regarding an 11 inch barreled DSA, the author tested velocity of Black hills 175 grain match out of the 11 inch DSA was 2,180 fps. The same load out of a 21 inch FAL was 2523 fps. The loss per inch was 34 fps. Loss from inch to inch isn't linear and I am sure that the differences in the shorter barrels is greater than the longer barrels so this would be a worst case. If you take average difference per inch of each of the above cases you get (30+11+40+29+34)/5= 30 fps per inch. I know this is not perfect, but definitely better than most WAG's. enjoy

Dream gun, but the price is just to steep.

wow you got some smokin deals. even back in the day they were not that cheap. I remember in the 90's those things going for mid 3k area.

this kinda reminds me of what springfield did with the M1A in the form of the loaded model. NM barrel and trigger on a std platform. Works well, 90% of the NM performance at 70% of the cost. Does anyone know how many of these were made?

Thanks. I am a newbie to the Ar10 world, but not a newbie to AR's. As for 308's, I come from mostly M1A/M14 background having owned about 19 total at one point. Most are gone and only a few left. Have also had HK-91(in the form of the SAR-8 original) and FAL's.

First post on this forum. I like it so far. I have chrono'd loads out of a 16 inch and a 22 inch barrel and I was shocked at the difference in velocity being so little. The long barrel velocity was 2730 something fps and my 16 was 2620 something(don't remember the exact numbers as it was some time ago). I called Federal or winchester(can't remember which) about this and they indicated that 308 goes full burn by 15.5 inches or so. If you are under that, you loose lots of velocity. if you are over that you gain but not as much. The guns were a DSA FAL 16 inch, and an M1A. I have heard from other sources that 308 does complete burn by 16.5, so it is very close. here is an article: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm