liber

Although reading that link again, there's not really a firm commitment on Sig's part... :( Still I look forward to any assistance they could provide in interfacing with the ATF on this matter.

Wow, I am more than happy to stand corrected on my above statements, I wouldn't have thought Sig would have stepped in and that's a small glimmer of light on this topic! I'm looking forward to seeing a response from the ATF in regard to Sig's statements. <thumbsup>

Thanks for the welcome. I keep hoping that things will get better, but we continually seem to take one step forward, two steps back, for lack of a better analogy. Yet, none of us should give up and we get the best results in numbers. (just like a true militia would) Honestly, let's be realistic here. What are the chances of Sig remotely trying to defend the product? Sig had a cash cow for a long time. I don't think they will spend it on a legal fight. My guess is that we'll need to see this decided at the State level, where they might leverage off the Supremacy Clause much like Heller or McDonald. I agree it is not going away, that does concern me. Big deal, automatics...why shouldn't I be able to bear one, but the Government can? Although I am willing to accept background checks and even the fact that people can loose their 2A rights by being a felon, I am in no way conceding that I shouldn't have the right to keep and bear any type of arm that is commonly used in the military, and especially that they use against other non-Americans. Furgeson just proves that it is only a matter of time before the Government will use excessive force against the people. I don't think they will do it intentionally, but that by having that power, eventually they will use it if the people stand up against them. I'm not a prepper or anything, and don't believe the Government is plotting anything like that, just offering an opinion. :) I hope you're right, I really do. But I tend to agree with 392heminut, I don't think the NFA is going anywhere. I do feel the NFA and GCA68 are both terrible infringements on our 2A rights, but don't feel we will ever see the end of them. I have always kinda felt like you shibiwan, that it is only a matter of time before some brave lawyer runs with case law in the system...But the picture that has been painted by people such as Alan Gottlieb (2nd Amendment Foundation) is not very pretty. The time it takes to make changes in the system make it prohibitive to make too much progress...and many of the courts are able to sit on 2A cases and stall them in the system. Legislature happens faster than the courts move, so in the end it seems we are always taking one step forward and two steps back. :(

What I typed was that 9/11 was the cause. Wasn't just Bush, it is also the current administration, the NSA, multiple Governors, Bloomberg, et al...but 9/11 along with events such as Sandy Hook caused much of this domino effect, IMO.

I'm not exactly clear where our different pages are, but I do like to think that the internet is still a free exchange of information and that nobody holds a gun to any of our heads to reply to any messages. :) Yes, that can be done fairly easily. I agree, but the SSE needs to be understood and followed to legally manufacture a firearm for personal use, as I understand it. This could be a misunderstanding on my part. <dontknow> Ok, thanks for that comment. If that is the case there is less to worry about as long as the top of the rail matches up. In looking at some of the pics online of problems with matching lowers with uppers, some had the charging handle slamming into the RE ring. That is what made me think the charging handle was at different heights on the different lowers.

Thanks unforgiven, we are all in this together, whether CA or IN, most states as a matter of fact are under attack on our 2A... I'm pretty much only interested in manufacturing for personal use, so as long as I can understand and justify it, I'm ok with it. The AR makes more sense to me, than say a 1911 or other pistol with the mag inside the handle. I'm unclear if the slide on a modern pistol functions and/or is a "bolt action", since it is certainly not a break-top action. On an AR pistol there is a bolt which is in the bolt carrier group. I completely agree that by removing the gas it would meet that. The one complication for sales through an FFL is that there are no AR lowers on the roster. I'm not sure if that matters to me building for my personal use, but it may for sales through an FFL. This piece about the gas tube and/or bolt action was explained on calguns, but not without one of the regulars belittling me by accusing me of being a mole for the CA DOJ. This is yet another example of paranoia and fear that is spread into the firearms community, IMO. Sometimes the community itself is our own worst enemy. This is actually something I didn't know. So, if I understand you correctly, there is high and low profile for Gen 1? Damn, that really makes it complicated... ??? Presuming I have a Gen 1, how can I tell if my lower is for a low or high profile specific ? Thanks for the help guys, in trying to grok this stuff my thick head gets in the way... :(

FWIW, not to go on and on...but there was one thing the movie made me realize. It made me realize what an impact 9/11 had on me and my outlook of our constitution, our freedom, and our 2A rights. I've always supported the constitution, and consider myself to be a constitutionalist (if there is such a person). In the movie when he sees the planes crashing into the world trade center, it reminded me how I felt and how I was changed as a person, after that was done to America. But it was also 9/11 that has caused so much infringement to our rights in general, some which I feel we will never see again...I hope I'm wrong, and do stand up for the 2A in every regard.

In Kyle's case/story, I knew it before he died and had watched him on many interviews before he died. I have nothing but respect for him, he truly made huge sacrifices for our country, and at the expense of not being able to spend much time with his family...that is a sad but true aspect of that job, but Kyle had the right outlook for that job without question. Even when I watched him being interviewed by O'Reilly on Fox, O'Reilly tried to nail Kyle on the wall by making him look like he was only good at being a sniper, and Kyle was staunch of what he felt was right and for every shot he took over there. The movie did convey that when he's discussing that with Administration. In the book there's a strong understanding of GOD, Country and family. I didn't get that in the movie. I figured the chapter about Scruffy Face wouldn't be added to the movie, but that missed on a big piece of Kyle for me, how he would stand up for his brothers no matter. All of his interviews, in the book, etc...all depict him as being a genuine, honest, caring person. Just that he was a sniper by career. I always got the impression if Kyle walked into a bar, he made a presence, and in the movie he wasn't that way. In the book he's always getting in fights and the Navy is always bailing him out. Also, in the book and his interviews, "Pickles" had a huge impact that would follow him for most of the time he served...he was also at the wake with Scruffy Face at the bar. The movie lost a lot of the impact he had on Kyle. I have heard folks say that Kyle over-exaggerated situations in the book, that I don't know for sure, but all the interviews I've seen of him he always seemed like an honest and genuine person. I didn't get the impression he exaggerated on too much in life, he was always pretty humble. I know what you're saying about how much time a movie would take to depict correctly...just that it should have been longer if that was the case here, or done in a different way to convey that. When I read through this thread yesterday it was apparent that a lot of folks like the movie, I see people raving about it all over the net, so I do feel I'm in a minority. As I said before, Kyle deserved better, IMO. And for all the hype on the last scene, I was scratching my head wondering...is this it? This is the end? I felt more like I was cheated more than I was emotional...I wondered if me and Vice President Biden had seen the same movie...

Thanks (I didn't miss you either planeflyer). I saw that AZ is under attack by some idiot politician the past couple days on private sales and other stuff... The friend that gave the lower to me can't remember where he got it from, but he is certain it's Gen1. In shopping for uppers, it's not clear which ones are Gen1 or not. I see some listed as low, and I would think those are Gen2. I asked Kurt over at KAK Industries and he said his stripped uppers are low profile. I'm pretty sure that won't work for me, so I'm guessing his "McClane" upper is the same (I can't afford to get one even if they were in stock right now). Most often people are not even sure what they have when they are selling uppers on the used market. On the rail, wouldn't that measurement be different from the top of the lower, to the top of the RE ring? Seems if you put a low profile upper on a high profile lower, the charging handle will hit the top of the RE ring. 10-4 on the SNR. It is a good site, I've read and learned plenty from calguns, so don't get me wrong. :D

LOL...maybe I should run it by them again in that context. Actually I hadn't asked about Moore, I asked about some of the lovely senate CA has voted for in the past. It wasn't me, I can assure you of that, but CA truly owe's the nation an apology for the ignorance of the population, most who came here from other states to begin with. :( Anyway, not to derail this thread on a luke warm movie for a great story. ::)

Thanks all for the welcome. I'm in Bay area (South Bay). Yeah, but there's a lot of emotion, often over the top...there's a lot of miscommunication between people continuously...and quite a bit of bad info. That said, I'm not meaning to dis calguns, it's a great resource. Just requires chewing large grains of salt with some of the posts. I haven't posted too much there. The Golden State 2A Council has a good meeting in the Bay area each month at Harry's in San Jose.

That's funny...dare I say I was thinking Moore would make a great target with a donut around his mouth with an X in the center, but my rifle club doesn't allow silhouette targets. <dontknow> I wonder if Moore is secretly married to FeinFrankenStein ?

I read the book and thought it was awesome. I don't read very many books but was fascinated to read it, and you can get them on the used book networks for almost nothing. That is true for American Gun, which is a better book to have as a firearms enthusiast. I was very let down by the movie, while I thought it was ok, I just didn't get the impact as I do from top notch films. I think Kyle deserved better. I went to see it with several friends. 2 others felt the same as me, they were disappointed in the movie given the hype for it also. Maybe I was expecting too much after liking the book as much as I did, but the movie didn't do it for me. I hate to say I'm glad to see his wife gain from the movie, because I felt Ventura was a moron for suing her to begin with. You would expect that from a wrestler I 'spose, they are posers in their own right...but he had to sue Kyle's widow? In that regard, her and the kids will have be taken care of with the movie royalties I would think. For that, Eastwood is a genius. <thumbsup> I know I'm in the minority most likely...just saying... :-[

I'm building an LR-308 pistol and am looking for some information about measuring my lower to understand what upper it needs. I think it is Gen 1, but not sure. The lower was gifted to me, and I've milled it. I'm pretty certain it is Gen 1, which I believe is high profile, but not positive and/or how I can measure the lower to determine that without buying a pig in a poke online. Aside from that, I like to machine on my spare time as a hobby. I'm mostly interested in building my own firearms for personal use, in regards to lowers/receivers. Much of the other parts I will buy. California has a lot of strange changes in the air this year, the single shot exemption for pistols ended for much of the pistols, now the sig brace malarkey, and I'm sure there will be more throughout the year. In anticipation of not being able to legally produce an LR-308 pistol, I milled a couple lowers before the end of year. Seems it might still be legal, but it's not clear to me just yet. The SSE effect those building for personal use, so it's not clear to me how the law exactly changed. But I would like to emphasize to everyone...I'm not looking to leave California, I'm not looking to have my state called names, or made fun of. I don't like what is happening with the gun laws in California, but still, not rolling over for the morons in charge either. With all that said, I'm looking forward to using 308AR.com. :))

First, this is my first message and I came here for the 308 info, but I am also in California so this sig brace topic is dear to my heart, and yes I do own one. I currently have a Thordsen buffer tube cover on my KAK sig brace tube, both will work fine on it. There is a lot of panic going on. The ATF didn't redefine any law, all they have done was sent out an opinion letter to a letter that was submitted to them. You say probably? I think this is definitely going to require someone is charged with the sig brace and the courts to decide. That may be good or bad. The case in California with the 2 dolts who got arrested will not be that case unfortunately. The sig brace is a very small part of it, and there are many other complications in the case which make the sig brace insignificant. No bullet button, having possession of a firearm while on probation, narcotics for sale, armed robbery, etc...and without a bullet button the AW penal code will stick anyway. That case just complicates the sig brace issue. Let's hope we are not relying on those dolts for a ruling in the courts, they will probably be using public defendants. I agree in theory, but going to court is always a crap shoot and depends on the attorney handling the case...OJ a case in point...but it can also work against everyone in the case where a crap attorney handles it. The question I propose to the firearms community at large is when is enough, enough? When is it that we can actually challenge all of this BS in a legal manor? The NFA and GCA68 both infringe upon our rights, just as many of the State legislation does as well. I was born prior to 1968, so I feel as though I was infringed even more by them. Yet, it's almost impossible for a layperson to challenge law. As legislation continues to get layered on, much like manure being added to a pile of crap, how do we start to shovel some of it off? If anything it seems we need some type of governing law that would apply to all States...yes, something like a constitution...hey wait, we already have the 2nd amendment, so why can't we rely upon it? That's the real question in this and other similar matters. And although I do feel the NFA is just a concocted tax idea, I can't even pay $200 for a tax stamp in California? That is being infringed on infringement itself...f#@$ me...