liber

The above is exactly what I've been trying to understand. I see what you're saying now as the bottom of the charging handle is the same on both, it's the top that matters. In this sense, as long as I match up the upper with the rail I use, I should be good to go...(as long as the fit is acceptable where the upper and lower mate. I might be able to use some dykem and rub to get a nice fit. I read that thread in the DPMS, and will read it again. Seems I'm ok with matching the rail up, if the lower is the same on DPMS. Well, yeah, there's various info in different forums, pinned documents, etc...and parts as well. I guess I'm slow in sorting it out, I still haven't made any final decision on what I will build yet, whether I will go entire upper, build upper, etc... With this in mind, I will go read that pinned thread again in the DPMS forum.

Agreed, I didn't mean to do that. I don't think I can afford POF, just using it as an example. Yes, this is a pistol and I will shoot mostly at 200 yards. However, no harm in making the pistol to begin with, otherwise I can't put a shorter than 16" barrel on it. Unfortunately I'm in California, so no stamp. :( I'll take your sig brace comments tongue in cheek, as nothing has gone to court. Not saying it's legal, but even though the ATF changed their statement, that has not been proven yet in court and it's not known if it will even stand up. You won't be the first person to make that type of comment. Here's my logic. Plenty of people shooting these at 200 yards, and the .308 is an accurate, and since I will most likely shoot this almost all the time at 200, I think it will be a fun firearm to own. I can use it with a sling, I can use it with a brace, I can use it with a Thordsen buffer tube cover. I can also reconfigure it to a rifle and put a longer barrel on it, at which point I could attach a stock legally. At least in the sense that with a barrel 16" or longer it no longer falls under the NFA SBR law. I suspect though, with a 12.5" barrel, a .308 could be pretty good out to 400-500 yards safely. I don't think I will shoot this any farther than that. I'll be lucky if I can try it at that range. I don't think a pistol will be any less fun to shoot than a rifle at 200 yards. <dontknow>

Definitely one of my pastimes is the smoker...no denying that Texans know how to do brisket, the best on the planet, and I'm a big fan of brisket. I had this idea to do the same thing with short ribs, cook 'em until the colagen breaks down and melts, when it reaches 190 degrees internal. These take about 7 hours for shorties.

Is yours DI or piston? Does this mean I'm stuck with "the rule" for both the Ranier and CMMG ? I'm not even gonna say a peep about that Noveske...hehehe My wife's not gonna be happy about "the rule"... LOL

What that looks REALLY nice...Shilen blank! That's gonna be a definite contender. LOL...to paraphrase Miles Davis, "I got 'yer rules hangin..." But the thing is, that's almost twice what the CMMG barrel is...probably makes sense to spend extra on a barrel, given a quality blank like a Shilen...that's gonna take some ponderin'...that would be pretty pricey...I bet the upper would end up about $1500, as it would easily be over $1k with a bolt and upper, and that's not including the rail. But it's only like $200 more for the barrel. As my Grandfather used to say, "that's not bad if you say it fast..."

Yes, I was told to be careful about the roof and floor, so tried to stay conservative on that, and did more to the width. Since I really don't know what I'm doing, I just calculated a percentage that another guy told me was safe, and marked that with a sharpie so I could know how far on each side to grind. I just used a dremel with a carbide dremel bit. it's kind of like a long skinny cone shaped tip that has a bunch of steppled carbide nubs. I just took my time and let it do the work and free handed it. I wasn't something I needed to do...just like to build $#!T...same reason I build firearms. I have another blown Husqvarna 359 which was rebuilt by someone else, and due to my perserverance in cutting a large log from underneath it's frozen solid. ;) I don't have time to rebuild it, nor do I really need it. The chainsaws I use for some log work I do all have 1/4" chain on them, so I don't need that much power. I've heard that's a good one to port.

Here's another video that Jeff Zimbra did on the POF P-308 with a 12.5" barrel. This should be a similar barrel to the CMMG, however this is a piston system as I recall.

For anyone following, KAK Industries has a short barrel .308 barrel as well as an upper. In their case the barrel is 10.5". Aside from cutting one down, the KAK Industries and CMMG are the only short .308 barrels that I can find readily available. Kurt at KAK said they will have some soon, as they will uppers. Barrel http://www.kakindustry.com/kak-762-stainless-105-inch-carbine-stainless-barrel Upper http://www.kakindustry.com/lr-308-parts/lr308-kak-1050-carbine-7-62nato

I don't know too much at all. I just widen out the sides of the port, and keep it narrower than the cylinder, soften the edges and make them flow in...I used Drano to clean the old ring material off the cylinder wall. Bought a new piston and ring from Bailey's and put it all back together. I know there are some guys that really understand them well, and hot rod the crap out of them...mine wasn't anything that drastic, I've done 2 of them...one was a blown Husqvarna 350, and the other was a Husqvarna 242xp. The 242xp runs like a banshee, but the recoil on it is kinda funky...it's pretty old possibly one of the first XPs. Too many projects and not enough time, so haven't spent any time messing around with Chainsaws in several years...

But if I understand Farkle! there are different uppers, even for Gen I. My head hurts. :-[

I'm picky and want to have things correct. For me, if the jigs/templates are followed closely will not leave a perfect pocket anyway, the sides will be off by at least some...even when I measure by hand the sides can come out .001"-.002" different, but I consider that to be close enough for rock and roll. Funny on the trigger though, as long as there was enough material left on the sides of the floor to support the ends of the trigger spring, the rest of the floor could be milled out and have no effect as the trigger is supported by the pin, and the hammer spring rides over the trigger pin. With a drop in aftermarket trigger group in a contained package, even that wouldn't matter and the entire floor could be milled out, AFAICT. Anyway, the trigger opening is certainly the one area on these lowers for me that seems to be the one area that often needs a little extra work. Sounds like you figured yours out and that's what counts most! <thumbsup> The jigs/templates are not an end all solution. I was only pointing that out. You also ended up measuring by hand, as I and many others have.

The pistol lower is completed with a functioning LPK, pistol tube, but needs a 308 buffer/spring...and the upper of course. That much I know, that it is a pistol, because that's how I manufactured it. <thumbsup>

Yes, the LR-308 world is not as cut and dried. One problem is that that is not a common measurement to provide on the upper. This would be the height from the bottom flat of the upper to the bottom of the charging handle slot. That needs to be at least the same height as the top flat of the lower to the top of the RE ring. This makes buying online problematic. Maybe shibiwan can help with that. Might be easier just to take the lower with me to the Cow Palace and try how the upper first the lower before buying.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that...I can live with that type of rule, I thought I violated some type of link to the CMMG site or that I didn't post a pic or something... LOL I would love to try it out...just trying to sort out my cash 'sitch...if you know what I mean. ::) I know there are not a lot of these barrels on firearms yet, at least from the searching I've done on the web. I sent a PM to shibiwan to see if he has any info on the barrel and/or pricing. More than a few people look at me like a deer looking in a spot light when I mention putting a 12.5" barrel on an LR-308, but there are a number of videos that do show them as reliable, none that I could find on the CMMG barrel though. Jeff Zimbra (Bigshooterist) has a video shooting a POF P-308 w/12.5" barrel and getting nice groups at 300 yards. That would cover much of my needs of it.

Ray, not sure I understand that, but are you saying that the company makes a jig for their own lowers that doesn't isn't sized correctly? What do you mean wasn't sized correctly, do you mean in regard to how the pins fit into the jig? Yes, if you have it engraved while it is an 80% (i.e., incomplete lower) anyone can do it, and you would have no problems with having your jewler friend engrave it, or having someone re-anodize (or finish it if it is raw) or cerakote it. I think other states are the same as CA in the sense that once it's an official firearm, it needs to have an FFL do the work if you need to leave it with them. You can have people do the work if you are in their presence while they do the work and do not leave it overnight. That is my understanding of the law. Since all states now have to go through FFLs for transfer of firearms, I would imagine this is true for all states, but some may somehow be exempted from the infringing laws which are in place.

I never realized how simple a 2 stroke engine was until I rebuilt a blown chainsaw...has an input port and exhaust port. When they blow up it usually smears the ring on the inside of the cylinder wall, and that typically cleans off. A new piston and a new ring, some dremel work and it has been running like a banshee since. It is kinda loud since I opened up the muffler. I'm sure I didn't do everything proper, I just used a dremel with a carbide bit and opened up the ports as well as opening up the muffler to allow it to breath better. Really brought it to life, to say the least. I use it for doing log work, and despite having other nicer chainsaws it is my favorite as I rebuilt and ported it myself. <thumbsup>

That's the $64k question. That I don't know for sure. The person that gave me the lower had it sitting around and wasn't using it, and gifted it to me. He is 99% sure it's Gen 1. Since most lowers appear to be Gen 1, that's probably a safe bet. In reading FaRKle!'s message it seems all of the lowers are the same. I'm not clear why I've seen some LR-308 with the charging handle slamming into the RE ring, where the pics look like the charging handle won't pull back as the RE ring prevents it from doing so...maybe that is AR-10 vs. LR-308, I'm not clear on that. If all the lowers are the same, it seems as long as I make sure the upper and guard have the rail at the same height, I should be good to go...but those are like famous last words. I don't have an upper or guard yet, so getting them together will make sense. I will contact shibiwan as BLKSHEEP suggested in the Parts forum. I'm interested in putting the CMMG 12.5" .308 barrel on it. I hope all that makes sense.

What "The Rule" would that be? <dontknow>

Nice, I will do that. If I can swing it, I'd like to get a complete upper. If not just a barrel and piece it together. I don't have any upper now though, so it would make sense to get the upper and guard together it seems.

Anybody have one of these 12.5" barrels that CMMG makes? http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/38d920a.htm There is also a Mk3 upper: http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/38b92b3.htm Curious of the reliability, what buffer/spring you're using...etc... Seems these can be pretty reliable, it seems.

You should have had them engrave it for you. 80percentarms will engrave them for $40 per their website. That would be worth it to get them engraved, that way if you buy the anodized lower, the anodize would be over the top of the engraving and you'd be good to go. It complicates it some if you finish the lower first, as you need an FFL to finish it. Your state may be different, this is true for California.

I'm not expert and have only milled a handful of lowers, but the AR-15 jigs are specific to forged or milled lowers, AFAIK, as they measure differently. Most of the LR-308 lowers are billet (some forged are coming on the market), so most of the jigs are for billet. For AR-15s using the wrong jig will put the templates off center in my limited experience. The other problem is that on AR-15s, the trigger guard is more often than not integral to the billet lower, and doesn't use the trigger guard as the forged lower does from the LPK. That presents a problem on some jigs as the trigger guard hangs below the jig bottom. That wasn't a problem to mill the pocket, as the center of my kurt vise has an opening over the screw, but when drilling I needed to use a small trestle block to hold the fixtured lower solid against the vise jaws, otherwise it would rock on the intregal trigger guard of the billet lower. Make sure you have the correct drawing, and keep in mind that the trigger control group pocket is the same as on the AR-15, just a different location on the LR-308 lower. In reality the LR-308 lower has way thicker wall for the TCG opposed to the AR-15 which has very narrow walls and less room for error. In each of the lowers I've milled, the trigger opening has always been the one piece that needs to be worked on with extra milling or some file work. I find it is actually just better to measure to the center and mill it out by hand, rather than using the trigger template. I've had them off center where the side of the trigger rubs the side of the opening, and have had them too short and the trigger rubbing on the front of the opening, etc...I've had it seem as if the trigger fit, but it was rubbing and would prevent the pins from going in easily. That seems to be the problematic area for me. <dontknow> The jigs are useless for precision work, which is why I measure by hand. But mine got the holes correct for the safety/trigger/hammer, so that along with being able to hold the lower to do the work on was worth it alone. As a bonus, the templates were the same for both the AR-15 and LR-308 so I only needed to buy a set of extra side plates.

That's cool, I've ported a couple chainsaws, it's fun...do you port 2 stroke engines?

Welcome! Lancaster outta be nice for varmint hunting.

I would tend to agree with that, but was hopeful when I first read it...time will tell, but I don't see them sticking their neck out too far. OTOH, they probably have a much better relationship with the ATF than we do, so maybe we can at least get some thoughts on this after they have time to research and pow-wow with the ATF. Occasionally I feel they poke the bee hive too much, and not sure that is good for everyone's cause. The Government can be a PITA if they want to and can make all of lives miserable. I guess I don't mind the way Ares handles the ATF, but I'm not about to start treating them that way myself. If one antagonizes the ATF like Ares does, one is bound to have some problems with them. Doesn't seem his case is over yet...What Ares is facing is much steeper than shouldering a sig brace.