taylorkh

Sorry to be late on this thread but I am new to this forum and just came across the thread while looking for something else. I had the exact same issue when I started wet tumbling some months ago. I cleaned a batch of 9 mm Para cases which came out like gold! I loaded and fired some of the batch and cleaned them a second time. This time they came out sort of tattle tale gray - well at least they were rather dingy compared to the cases which I had only cleaned one time. I cleaned the offending cases a second time and they STILL looked dingy. I attributed this to one or more of these issues: 1 - I had cleaned some rifle cases in the interim which had traces of lanolin based sizing lube remaining on them. Contaminated the tumbler drum I think. 2 - I had tried the "add a little automotive wash & wax to keep the cleaned cases from tarnishing" trick. Did not work but also contaminated the tumbler drum I think. 3 - Not enough detergent. To clean up the mess I tumbled just the stainless steel media with detergent and an ounce of isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. This seemed to remove the traces of contaminant from the drum and media. I get better results now. I also now clean the lanolin lube from rifle cases with a dedicated vibratory tumbler using corn cob media and a splash of isoproply alcohol BEFORE putting them in the wet tumbler. I also add a little isoproply alcohol to the wet process when cleaning rifle cases. Finally I bumped up the charge of stainless media to 6 pounds from 5 pounds (Thumler's Model B). This improved the results and reduced the time required to do the job. Ken

Only a matter of time... A couple of years ago I was in search of a full custom 1911 in 10mm. I knew exactly what I wanted but none of the usual suspects had anything to meet my specs. I came across Knighthawk Custom. Their Richard Heinie Long Slide was very close. I asked them 3 questions by email: Can you build this pistol for me with a compensator? You list several coating finishes and a brushed stainless option. Are the frames/slides stainless or carbon steel? What is your delivery time? And they answered... No, we do not have any threaded barrels We can build stainless or carbon 14 months (or more) 14 months is not that bad for a full custom pistol from a small shop. The second answer did not really answer the question. I probably do not want a 10mm in stainless even though I have a fondness for the material. I don't think I really want a spray on finish on a $4k pistol. I would expect a blue finish to put a Python to shame. And finally... in 14 months I would expect they could send one of their gunsmiths to night school to learn how to run a lathe and thread a barrel. Thus ended my search for a custom 10mm - at least for a while. Ken

I am familiar with RRA - at least in the .223 platform. Their 2 stage triggers are a great bargain. I have also used a lot of their parts. As to their .308... It is somewhat unique in that it uses FAL magazines. When I first read that I thought "great! FAL mags are cheap." Well not any more. Several years ago my step son did his favorite fund raising drill "hey Mom, how about chipping in on this rifle and we will give it to Ken for Christmas." This time I ended up with an FAL parts kit gun which his gunsmith buddy had built. I snagged a bunch of extra mags for it for about $4 each. I never did really like the FAL nor the CETME which I obtained by the same scheme. But as they were gifts I could not sell them. And then earlier this year he asked me if I had a CETME? Yes. Would you consider selling it? I might. So after he paid for that one he asked if I would sell the FAL? He got that and 10 mags. It was actually his recommendation that I look at an AR platform .308. So when I looked at the RRA and then priced FAL mags I told him the REAL DEAL he got purchasing his rifle back. I have a dozen PMAGs for the Fulton coming in tomorrow on the Big Brown truck. I guess I will admire them until the Fulton arrives. And I will shoot my Anschutz 8001 in my air conditioned shop until the weather gets a little cooler. Ken

Thanks unforgiven, Sort of a strange story behind this one. I had purchased a .223 Del Ton rifle kit from Midway back when ARs and parts were rather scarce. I assembled it and found that with the rear site centered the point of impact was about 15" right at 100 yds. Obviously the front sight base was not vertical. I called Del Ton and they were very good about dealing with it. As they are only an hour and a half or so away I arranged to carry it to them. When we arrived the lady asked if we could come back in an hour so the wife and I took a little tour around Elizabethtown. When we got back to Del Ton they had my upper "fixed." It was now centered but with the rear sight adjusted all the way down I had to run the front post up so far that I could see light under the disk in order to regulate the elevation. Back to the factory again (their UPS label). This time I punch marked all of the parts so I could figure out what they replaced. The upper came back and the elevation was regulated. But all of the parts were the same as I sent. Bent the barrel(?) When I next gave it a workout it pulled apart several cases - not the head but about half way up the case body. I pulled the barrel and examined the chamber with a piece of wire with a hook on the end. At the position where the cases broke was a distinct ridge in the chamber. It looked like it was carved out with a serrated knife. Back to the factory again. This time they polished the chamber somewhat. When it came back I was rather disgusted and tossed it aside. I had been considering a dedicated .22 LR upper. Given the experience with the above referenced fiasco I decided "no more peasant rifles." I went with the top of the line - CLE. I like the AR rear sight but I hate the loss of sight radius with the front sight at the end of the handguard. I therefor decided on the "space gun" sight arrangement at the end of the barrel. I had a Lyman 20 sight with the sideways dovetail and as I did not plan to remove the globe I asked CLE if they could use it. They said the best thing would be to send them the sight and they would assemble the upper to fit the sight. Supposed to take 5 weeks. 5 MONTHS later I got an email. "Your upper is done but we cannot figure out how to mount the front sight." I called and reminded them of our conversation 5 month ago and how it was to me mounted. I had the upper a few days later. Ended up changing the globe to a 93 and put the 20 on my old Mossberg 144. To complete the Del Ton story... after a year or so I pulled out the polished chamber upper and tried it out. Sometimes it would group here and sometimes there and sometimes not at all. The barrel came off of the upper and went under the (12 pound) hammer (on my kindling wood splitting block). But there is more. Some months later I was looking at some AR parts at the Fayetteville, NC gun show. I asked the seller where his A2 buttstocks came from. He said Elizabethtown. I began to relate my Del Ton story. The girl at the table chimed in "...and we did this and that..." It was the lady from Del Ton whom I had seen for all of a couple of minutes about 3 years before. The bottom line... they had hired a fellow to make barrels, he could not but had produced about 200 attempts before they fired him. Apparently a few of them escaped quality control - and I guess I got one. This made sense as a local gunsmith had put together a couple of dozen Del Ton kits at about the same time and had no complaints. Ken

KCI is a magazine "brand" apparently from South Korea. They seem known for Glock, M1 carbine and M14/M1A magazines. Perhaps some others but those are the ones I am familiar with. Their Glock mags are so so. I have used a couple in a G19. Very hard to load to rated capacity. They seemed to feed OK with the limited use I put them to. M1 carbine mags... don't know - I probably have a few in my stash but have not used them. M1A... I purchased a couple of 10 round mags many years ago. M14 mags are characterized by a HEAVY steel shell. The KCI mags are significantly thinner. The feed lips sprung open after very little use. Rubbish in technical terms. Ken

.22 - boring? Here is 14 pounds of pure accuracy. 20" Douglass match barrel based upper built by Compass Lake Engineering. Lyman 93 globe site with clear plastic apertures on the front. CLE National Match rear sight. Barnes Precision lower with Jard trigger 1 1/2 #. Buttstock pocket filled with lead shot for balance. Not quite as ergonomic as my Anschutz 8001 but not bad. Ken

On order: 1 - Fulton Armory Titan FR8-308-PVR-L with 24" barrel 12 - PMAG 20 round mags for the above 2 - 4 TB drives for my server Received today 1 - 10 Rnd Check Mate magazine for my M1A. A real nice mag. Much sturdier than the KCI 10 rnd mag which collapsed flat from only two mild butt strokes (after the feed lips opened up after about 35 rounds and it puked ammo all over the place. Ken

Thanks to all for the continuing welcomes and comments. I have the Fulton cannon on order. Should be about 12 weeks I am told. In the mean time I am stocking up on magazines, spare parts etc. I have a scope to start out with (Leupold 6.5 - 20 EFR Target) and an AR mount. I hope the 12 weeks turns out to be close. My first Clark custom 1911 (ca. 1978) was supposed to take 2 months. I finally got my pistol back NINE months later. But well worth the wait. On the other hand I had Clark build me a custom revolver a couple of years back. It was supposed to be 3 - 5 months. Got a call in 5 WEEKS. It was ready! As far as ArmaLIGHT rifles... my most recent mouse build was a 20" pencil barrel from Green Mountain Barrels. Chrome lined, 1 in 12 twist. Intended as a plinker. I put it on an Anderson "Sport" upper with a free float tube handguard. It turned out to be so accurate that it is now my light weight match rifle. I have a Lyman globe site with clear plastic apertures mounted to a sight base from Champion's Choice which is mounted not to the barrel but to the flash hider which has been turned down to .750" and Locktited in place. The read sight is a modified DPMS A2 mounted to the flat top rail. It sports a Merit VIA adjustable aperture. It will shoot better with 55 grain ball handloads than most of my range visitors can do with their scoped ARs. Perhaps I need to drop $600 - $800 and put some match sights on the Fulton I learned to shoot with iron sights and I guess you never forget - even when the eyes get older. Ken

10lb 10oz is not too bad to get started. My service rifle class AR is a little over 12# and my .22 LR match rifle (Compass Lake Engineering upper, my lower and lead shot in the buttstock pocket for balance) is between 13 - 14 depending on what accessories I have on the rail (hand stop & sling, offhand spacer or bipod). Heavy is steady Ken p.s. This rifle will hopefully only be used to punch paper and steel. However, if it ever has to fire a shot in anger it should be effective easily to 600 - 800 yards or more.

Thanks for all the kind replies. And a couple of special comments... To mrmackc - Interesting about DPMS making the lowers. I suspect that DPMS might supply forgings to Fulton but the final products look a little different especially the trigger guard and the front takedown pin "pocket" which on the latest DPMS looks "artsy." The AR platform is inherently accurate. I have only had one bad barrel (in a Delton kit). They were very good about it and it went back to the factory 3 times (then it went under the 12 pound hammer). About two years later I met some folks from Delton at a local gun show. It seems that back during one of the crazy periods they had hired a barrel maker who... let us say could not make a barrel to save his butt. He made a couple of hundred before they fired him and apparently a few escaped. Mine probably being one of them. They offered to replace the barrel but I told them it had already been scrapped and replaced - with a great tube from Lothar-Walther. and to Wash - I do not think I could collect the parts (and tools - all of mine are .223 size) to put together the rifle for what Fulton is selling the whole thing. A friend of mine did a study and found that he was better off purchasing an entry level DPMS and adding bits and pieces to get it to the desired configuration. Not sure I agree - I hate to purchase something just to take off parts and throw them away. As far as the .223s go... After purchasing the SP1 rifle mentioned in the original post and an SP1 carbine in 1980 (traded in a Thompson Contender pistol for it after destroying two of Thompson's indestructable Lobo scopes) I have in fact rolled my own. Now a days I just build the upper and clip it onto one of my lowers. I suspect the .380 might grow another upper some day. More likely a buttstock like this first https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/adjustable-buttstock-ar-10.html# Ken

My first "AR" was a Colt SP1 rifle in 1973. I was in a little gun shop in my home town while on leave from the Navy. The shop had a habit of selling something which I had been saving up for a week before I came in with the money. This time I was ready. I had two hundred dollar bills in my pocket and plans to purchase an AR-180 which had been sitting on their rack collecting dust for a couple of years. I was chatting with one of the salesmen - I went to high school with his son - just catching up on town news. A customer came in the door, walked up to the other salesman, pointed to the rack and walked out with MY AR-180! I was so mad I drove immediately to Edelmans (not the store in the movie The Survivors but the same chain) and purchase the SP1 for $217. Yes I still have it. NO it is not for sale. As to .308 (7.62) I have an M1a ca 1990 - back when they were made with GI parts, some bolt guns and used to have a CETME and an FAL parts kit gun. Glad those last two are gone. The next one to go is a Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic ca. 1994. It never was right. Initially it slung rounds side to side like a fire hose. I FREE floated the barrel and cured that. However, the throat was looooong. It was not a question of seating a bullet within a couple of thousandths of the rifling. Rather I was lucky to get it withing a couple of 1/16"s of the rifling. A Remington gunsmith confirmed that it was by design "liability reasons." "If you wanted a match chamber you should have purchased a 40XB." Not the right answer. The thing has taken up space in the back of my safe for 20 years. Recently a shooting buddy convinced me to break it out. "We can get it to shoot." Not! To put it in perspective I have a Walmart grade 700 in i.30-06 - molded plastic stock, ADL finish, light hunting barrel and cheap scope which will group hand loaded hunting bullets or even pulled M80 ball better than the .308 will group Sierra Matchkings. Therefore... I have been looking to replace it - perhaps a match grade bolt gun, or a National Match M1a or... And last Friday my step-son said "get a .308 AR." I have never considered that because they are not "standardized" in the manner of a .223 AR and my limited experience with them has not been positive. Some research over the weekend pointed out that the DPMS form factor is sort of "standard". Armalite being in its own corner (by choice) and several outliers doing their own thing. And, some of the top end manufacturers (Knight Armament, Les Baer, Fulton) are following the DPMS pattern. As to my experience... A neighbor's son had a S&W M&P .308 - light 18" barrel. He shot it at my range one time and then removed it from his $1,700 scope and installed a bolt gun under the scope. And "Bubba" brought his home made parts kit rifle by to sight in. The vendor failed to supply the receiver pins and as he wanted to go hunting the next day he went into the local Lowe,s home improvement store and found a couple of metric bolts which fit. It actually fired and would hit a basket ball at 100 yards and he was happy and went hunting - no sure for what. My final experience is shooting my step-son's attorney's .308 carbine. It is typical "junk chic" pattern with everything including the kitchen sink and his lunch hanging off the key mods and slots. Not my idea of a rifle. But I have persisted in my search. Knight Armament - the latest SR-25s have that modern look - like the handguard was shredded by a mortar round. Les Baer - a little more to my liking - but considering the price more to their liking than mine DPMS LR-380 - now that is more like it. With a $1,200 MSRP for a 24" tube, free float handguard... not bad. The only down sides I see are the extruded upper (I have a couple in .223 and the are OK - just a little chunky to give them the rigidity of a thinner forged upper) and the standard AR trigger (easily corrected with a $200 - $300 replacement trigger). Fulton Armory FAR-308-PVR - This seems to me the best deal around. A 24" match barrel, free float tube with a slot for a handstop, offhand space, bench rest block or other match accessories , two stage trigger, and side cocking handle (much better to add an ergonomic stock - no charging handle in the way of the cheek rest) - all for $1,650. That is a grand less than their entry level M14 (which interestingly is only a grand less than their top of the line M14 with a Kreiger barrel). Delivery is ONLY 12 weeks - with luck. I have a few more questions for them - they just opened a few minutes ago so I will end this monograph and give them a call. May well put on on order today. Ken