ipsick

Thank you for the responses so far. 98Z5V, good info but not exactly what I am looking for. Could help others though. Robocop1051, a little closer to what I am looking for because the vid gives me some type of comparison. But it is using .223/5.56 ammo. Maybe my OP was too verbose and indirect. I am asking for the following comparisons for a .308 semi-auto AR 1. Is the recoil substantially different between a comp like the JP and a flash hider like the Smith Vortex? *Would an adjustable gas block and low mass carrier mitigate the difference? 2. Is a flash hider like the Smith Vortex noticeably quieter than a comp like the JP? *I realize a suppressor is ideal for noise concern but I am a California resident and it would be next to impossible for me to legally have one. Also a thread protector might work to reduce noise as compared to a comp but I thought I could go with a flash hider instead. I could be wrong, hence the request for help.

Trying to get an idea what the recoil/noise differences are between a Flash Hider vs. a Comp. Specifically, I have an 18" .308 JP Barrel with JP Tactical Comp and I am considering replacing the Comp with the Smith Vortex Flash Hider. I am also currently using a JP Adjustable Gas Block with the JP Low Mass BCG. The consideration for the Flash Hider is for use in the field for hunting and I figure it is a good alternative to a plain jane barrel thread protector. So will the Smith Vortex be better noise-wise for hunting and what kind of recoil increase am I looking at with the Smith Vortex? With my current system of JP Comp, Adjustable Gas Block, and Low Mass BCG the recoil is barely any more than my .223 JP AR. Will supplanting the JP Comp with the Smith Vortex make a substantial increase in recoil? Anyone out there with empirical (experiential) comparisons of recoil between a flash hider and comp in a .308 AR? Thanks in advance for your help.

I've re-read the instructions and I actually think PACT is advocating modifying the selector and not their trigger. Removing material from their trigger tail could prevent the selector from returning the trigger to the primary sear in dropped rifle situations (see video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/E5-ZrpiT7R4). It's what happens with my AR Gold and most mil-spec selectors (fails to return to primary sear). My AR Gold is an older version which I don't believe has that "extra" material on the trigger tail. I believe newer versions of both the AR and SR Gold have the "extra" material. The reason for my belief is that the selector I got from PACT way back when seems to be dimensioned similarly to the BAD-ASS now. Both will not work with the SR Gold but works perfectly with the AR Gold. I ended up just modifying the flat section of the BAD-ASS (older version) selector to get rid of the hitch in the trigger pull of the SR Gold. I think the hitch is from the "extra" material on the trigger tail and contact with the flat of the safety. I'm thinking it shouldn't be a problem as it's the rounded section that puts the rifle on safe anyhow. Oh well, for me I'm just happy to have the trigger hitch sorted out. I'll probably e-mail Roger of Battle Arms my findings.

You're probably right, that the issue lies with the Gold trigger. As I've said, even my AR Gold has safety fit issues where the only one that would reliably return the hammer to the primary sear from the secondary intercepting sear was a safety that ATC sourced themselves. The tightness when putting the trigger on safe is partially related to this double sear design. That being said, I still feel the mechanics of the Gold triggers are still superior to anything that is available. I'm still hoping that ATC can work up a solution by possibly finding a safety that better fits the trigger. If not, I will likely open up my considerations to either the Wilson TTU 2-stage or a JP trigger.

I now have two versions from Battle Arms. An earlier version that worked but made the trigger have a little hitch at the end of the pull and a later version I just received from Roger at Battle Arms that does not work at all. The later version makes it almost impossible to break the trigger without fully backing out the top screw and it does not function as a safety at all as I am unable to rotate it to safe. The latter is what user "gregrachelle" seemed to be experiencing. It seems as if Roger sent me the shaft with the shallower notch and not the deeper notch. You might want to try and get into a collaborative discussion with Greg and Roger on how they worked around this issue and to see if you can get a shaft that will work. For myself, although I appreciate Roger's assistance so far, I will work a little more closely with ATC and see what they can do to get it to work for me. I have a relatively early version of the AR Gold and I believe I had to buy a selector directly from them that would work with their trigger. Thus far it is the only selector that works perfectly with the AR Gold. I have not tested that selector yet with the SR Gold. Although I still believe the Gold products to be superior triggers to Geissele, I will have to give it up to Geissele that I am not experiencing these types of issues with the S3G. I am starting to wonder if anyone is experiencing any issues with the Wilson TTU as that is another design that intrigues me.

I took better photos for JP Rifles and this upper will now be looked over by them. Thanks all for the help.

NoFail, thank you. Those are the kind of pics I'm looking for. Jgun, both bolt and barrel are JP. I ordered them as a set from Brownells. And yes, I believe the barrel extension has burrs or marks as well. I don't remember there being any to begin with though. Only after shooting. Supposedly, the barrel and bolt are headspaced at the factory but I did not verify that myself (I made the poor decision not to buy the gauges). Luckily, I did not get hurt. I believe you are correct and there may be headspace issues. On some of the brass I have, the shoulder/case mouth is bending inward at the rim. Additionally, a JP cleaning rod guide I have will not fit flush into the upper. It stops just short of fitting into the extension. I'm thinking this may mean insufficient headspace. Anyways, I contacted JP midday this past Thursday with the pics and hopefully they will be able to help me. Thanks all for your help and replies thus far.

Thanks Terry for your reply. So you are saying this is not normal wear? Do you think this might be a case of too little headspace?

Here's a few pics along with a pair of once-fired Hornady brass. Btw, the complete question is what is the typical bolt wear for a 308 AR as stated in my OP. That's why I'm asking for pics. Is mine typical? If so, can I see pics of others' for comparison? I hope I get some helpful pics in the next response.

Hello all, I recently completed a build and shot a few rounds through it (about 40). I'm a little curious now as to what would be considered normal bolt lug wear. I'm getting what appears to me to be odd wear on the front corners of some of the lugs and a little on the rear. Could you guys post pics of normal bolt wear for a 308 AR? front and rear corners of the lugs if possible. Thanks.

So it doesn't sound like your looking for a light hunting/field rifle but you still want it relatively handy. So nothing too heavy either. I think Robocop has outlined your ideal setup.

I hope the forum owner doesn't mind but here's a pretty good gallery including component list: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=439270 I just recently built an 18" upper that was primarily built with JP Components in mind. It came out to 10lbs w/ optic. I'm not really sure what you mean by "tactical", but for me it could mean something lightweight and handy w/ an aimpoint dot and detachable magnifier (for distance, this is for a .308 after all). "Tactical" could also mean built for heavy duty with a quad rail for accessories. Basics for a build for me would be barrel, trigger, optics. Barrel: JP Rifles Fulton Armory Krieger Criterion Lothar-Walther Shilen Rainier Ultramatch Trigger: AR Gold JP Duty Trigger Geissele Hi-Speed Geissele SSA-E Geissele S3G (try to get the heavier trigger spring for this, should make similar to the Geissele VTAC which is only available on VTAC rifles afaik) Optics: Many options but since you mentioned you have a bolt gun for long range, I'm going to stick to the Aimpoint w/ magnifier suggestion or going with a 1x-#x variable. You could go with an ACOG but that eats a lot of your budget and they are not as versatile IMO. As for receivers, I personally lean towards ones that are DPMS-pattern compatible since they appear to me to be more common. Easier to just replace the whole upper.

Has anyone tried adjusting the SR Gold? Embarrassingly, I must admit that I just completed my 1st 308 AR build (all my comments on the Gold thus far based on my .223 AR Gold) and I've noticed a bit of creep (not confused with 1st stage take-up) in the trigger (creep present in 308 SR but not in 223 AR). Anyhow, I ended up adjusting the sear engagement (increased I believe, turning adjustment COUNTER-clockwise) and the creep is now gone. SR now about as good as AR. AR still slightly smoother but SR slightly lighter (nearly imperceptible difference). Just wondering if anyone else had to do this. ETA: Well after playing around with the AR Gold adjustments, I think I finally may have it setup how I like. I've decreased the sear engagement instead of increasing as I've located where what I thought was creep is coming from (more on that later). I've also figured out how to adjust the over travel as well. ************* If any of you are curious the adjustments are as follows: Sear Engagement (Lower Screw) -- Clockwise decreases engagement. You will realize you have gone too far when the trigger becomes single stage only as the primary sear is no longer engaged and only the secondary intercepting sear is engaged. Turn screw counter-clockwise and push hammer down to check for primary sear re-engagement. Overtravel and Pull Weight (Upper screw) **Pact actually says this adjusts sear spring but to me it seems to affect overtravel-- Clockwise reduces overtravel but seems to increase pull weight. You'll realize you've gone to far when the trigger will no longer release the hammer. Turn counter-clockwise to re-enable trigger release of the hammer. Also confirm the reset works when backing off the overtravel adjustment. ********** Now regarding the creep. It wasn't necessarily creep at all but hitching at the end of the trigger pull. What I am/was experiencing is the trigger would require a bit more force to release the hammer during the last few thousandths of the trigger pull. Getting to that point and breaking the hammer did not make for a smooth trigger pull. The problem stems from contact between the trigger tail and the selector (BAD-ASS in this case). This was deduced from email exchanges I am having with Ronin Coleman at Pact. Currently, I am considering sending it back to Pact to see if can be fixed. However, I have also contacted Roger at BAD (I was having a loose detent fit issue) and it seems like there have been changes to the BAD-ASS since I first bought it. From Roger's description, it seems as if the changes may even help me with my AR Gold hitch as the changes relate to dimensions on the selector drum/shaft. He is sending me the updated shaft. Besides the AR Gold/BAD-ASS issues I am experiencing, I am writing this post to applaud the EXCELLENT CS I am receiving from Pact and BAD. They have been superb as far as contact and listening to my concerns. Will likely comment again when I get everything close to perfect.

Please wish me luck, just loctited the receiver nut and hopefully I did it right.

I looked at your chart in the prior post. However, I believe tool steel can be used in injection molding or casting. Tool steel just refers to the blend of carbon and steel alloy present in the metal. Also, you still can't deny the cast marks shown on his trigger parts. At this point, I really won't argue the quality of G triggers or their capabilities. Triggers are very subjective and unique to the shooters' preferences. You might prefer most of Geissele's offerings while I prefer the AR Gold or the JP. The thing that bothers me now is how much he charges for triggers that use metal made from cheaper processing. In his m4carbine post he's saying that investment cast saves him up to 50% on steel processing costs.

Straight from the horse's mouth, unless major changes have been made since this post (Doesn't look like it because his triggers still have cast marks): http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=65982&postcount=62 sagmill = Bill Geissele = investment cast trigger parts I get that investment cast is not necessarily inferior but I don't think the cost should equal or exceed high (similar) quality forged or barstock parts. *As for the S3G, if you're still interested it is still for sale. I still have it and it's been sitting with other unused parts this whole time. No apologies necessary and thanks for the trigger discussion.

I'll give it a go. So although trigger preference is very subjective, I think the thing I am niggling on the most at this point is the fact that I am paying a lot for investment cast parts (Geissele) as opposed to barstock tool steel (SR Gold). Also if I were to make comparisons, I'm not sure if SSA-E is appropriate as opposed to a Geissele Hi-Speed which seems more comparable in performance and function.

Thank you :)

Got a favorite vendor for this ammo?

Just trying to get an idea of people's preferred all-around hunting ammo in their .308 AR. Putting together a .308 AR and honestly it's primary use will probably just be range duty but I'd like to tune the adjustable gas system for one type of ammo. It's pretty much going to be a JP LR-308 and they only show Hornady 150gr SST as recommended hunting ammo. The other ammo they recommend are primarily target rounds. So any other types I should be aware of that people like out of their .308 AR?

Not adding any help to Greg's issue, but just to re-assure others, I have the SR Gold with the BAD-ASS and have no issues with it (SI-Defense lower). Also, I doubt this is related but I see that Greg is using KNS anti-walk pins. I believe the SR Gold comes with its own proprietary pins. Don't believe it would matter but it is something I noticed. Lastly, MidwayUSA shows that they are now selling the SR Gold. Just another channel to order them from. I did have to order mine directly from PACT.

I think the ATC's are in stock if you buy direct from Pact. They really are the best trigger available. After that I'd consider a JP.

Replied to PM ;D

Sorry, if I was interpreting you as being contentious. My disappointment is after all, just my experience and I'm sure others are very happy with their S3Gs and other Geissele triggers. I'm hoping to sell the S3G without much loss but lately firearm-related products I've tried to sell with what I felt were good prices have been haggled down to the point where I was barely satisfied with the sale.

2nd of all, I'm not sure if you're calling the S3G Corvette or the Silverado since the S3G is for hi-speed action shooting. However, I do see what you're getting at but I'm still not sure if the Hi-Speed Geisseles would have fit my purpose as well. From my research, they still have a long trigger pull and a longer reset than the S3G. These are two things I don't like in my triggers. Maybe it is unfortunate that my first AR trigger was an AR Gold and all subsequent triggers are compared against that standard. With the AR Gold, I get the advantages of a short 2-stage pull and a very short reset. This allows me to make very fast precise shots. I was hoping the S3G could give me similar performance. The only other trigger that has come close thus far was the JP installed JP triggers I've tried.