crimsonfalcon07

Nope, just like I doubt Big Brother has any intention of passing virtually anything sensible having to do with guns. But as long as we're hoping... Here's another thought--what if gun safes were tax deductible? I mean, a bunch of shootings have happened with stolen guns that hadn't been properly secured. And gun safes are expensive. What if you could deduct the purchase of a safe from your income taxes?

Negatory. I just think that, if we're going to do it right, not pass something knee-jerk that would end up failing and more kids dying, that we ought to do it right. I don't know if any of the rest of you work with teenagers, but you don't want unsecured firearms near them, and it only takes one mistake to end up on the news. Better we get it as right as possible from the get-go. What I am in favor of is having a next-tier concealed carry permit with much stronger training requirements that would streamline future firearms purchase. You take the training, you opt in, and you get perks. Maybe you don't have to undergo background checks every time you buy, or you can get NFA stuff without paying 200 bucks for the tax stamp. Or something of the sort. Not mandatory, but optional. And what's this gun-free zone you speak of? You mean come-and-shoot-me zones? Victims-here zones?

I don't think anyone would propose to just arm teachers willy nilly, although the point that teachers are often not the best is well put. I would certainly oppose any sort of policy that advocated for any volunteer teacher being able to carry in schools, regardless of training (or lack thereof). It boggles my mind that people buy a gun and then never train to use it. But it would really make a lot of sense to have a training protocol that would license a teacher to carry in school. Thing is, it can't just be firearms training. Sure, they should be completely proficient with their weapon, but I think conflict de-escalation, unarmed third-party defense, first aid for gunshot wounds, psych training for what it's like to take a life, and other emergency response protocols should all be required. That's the thing that really bothers me about many gun owners. They go out and buy a gun and immediately think that they've got the be-all and end-all response to any and all threats. All too many think that their gun is the FIRST response to any threatening situation, and it's also all too frequent for gun owners to talk about blowing some scumbag away. But many don't even bother to train with their firearms, and even those that do, rarely spend the time training for anything else. Which means that a situation that didn't have to be lethal tends to end up with somebody dead, because somebody thinks that, because they have a gun, that they've suddenly become Judge Dredd. For my part, it's important to me to not only know HOW to use my gun, but also to have put a lot of thought and training into WHEN to use my gun. How many train not just drawing a gun, but also what they need to yell as they draw so that bystanders don't think they're the aggressor? How many train in how to deescalate a situation so they don't NEED to draw their guns? How many would blow someone away for sneaking about in their houses late at night? Anyone see how that could go wrong? There are a lot of situations in which even the most well-meaning and proficient gun owners would go for a gun when they really don't need to. Does a school shooter deserve to die in every circumstance? I wouldn't be surprised to find that most gun owners think so. But in at least some of these cases, the shooter is an otherwise decent kid who has been bullied for years, and nobody has done anything to help that kid, or punish their assailant, and finally that kid just snaps, gets a gun to even the odds, and comes to school to make sure that bully can't mess with them again. Does that kid deserve to die because of the school's failure to protect him or her? I'm absolutely in favor of having more of an armed presence in schools. But that presence needs to be properly trained. And not by these schmucks who make up stuff like this Sleeve nonsense, or the people who think it's a great idea to cluster all your unarmed victims in a single room, and then put them OPPOSITE THE DOOR. If I'm unarmed in an active shooter situation, I'm not going to put all my eggs in one basket, and I'm certainly not going to make it possible for the shooter to gun down all the kids without even entering the room. They're going to be behind cover if possible, or concealment if not, and I'm going to be low, right by the door, so I can have a shot at taking out the shooter before s/he enters, particularly if the shooter doesn't have tactical training and doesn't know to slice the pie. And, I've taken classes on how to disarm a shooter and eliminate that threat without myself being armed, so if MY students ever end up in that situation, I've got some way to protect them other than just hiding and waiting for them to be shot.

Bear in mind, when it comes to PSA, at least with their 308 uppers and lowers, even if you buy them as a set, it comes with a disclaimer that they're NOT a matched set. They'll just be whatever upper and lower, and won't be hand matched or anything. They will have the advantage of being from the same manufacturer, and the AR-15 lowers I've built stuff from have been good to go. Now, I'm not sure how that will translate to 308, because, as everyone points out on here on a regular basis, 308 is NOT milspec like AR-15, and doesn't have standards to adhere too. Hence why PSA can make a set with proprietary pins and buffer tube, etc.

Thanks for the input. I did indeed find the information about Midwest on here from Robocop, and corroborated from some other forums. My wife does have access to guns (in the USAF), but isn't particularly fond of them. I buy them with her blessing (and she just bought me a new MP5 clone in .22LR), but she doesn't really understand glass being as expensive as guns yet. She thought the Leupold Mark AR I bought for my .223 Wylde build was expensive! Will convert her yet, but for the time being, I'd prefer to keep my glass somewhat on budget. Not sure I need or want FFP, for instance. unforgiven, I got the trigger at www.manventureoutpost.com. It's my favorite site for most outdoor gear, etc, and they'll price match. Great CS too. I originally had bought the mag release from them (they have it way cheaper than anywhere else), but forgot that I already bought one (oops). Emailed them, and they switched my order to be for the trigger and billed me the extra as per my request. Usually takes them a couple days to process and get it out; most orders tend to arrive within a week or faster, but they may not be ideal if you need it RIGHT NOW. Customer service for me has always been stellar, and prices and selection tend to be hard to beat (especially with that price match guarantee). Sometimes I wonder how they make a profit, but they keep expanding, so... I'll be getting most of the parts for this build through them.

Thanks for the welcome!

Thanks for the comments. I just got done reading the link from Fulton Armory about fluted barrels, and it certainly looks like there's no reason to get one, and many reasons to not get one. And yes, I am sold on the .308. It's a readily available round, and, although there are other rounds that offer better ballistics, they tend to be more expensive and/or harder to come by. If there's another ammunition shortage, I'd prefer to have rounds that will be easier to find, and .308 or 7.62 were regularly available on local shelves last time. I am well aware of its shortcomings, but the cost and availability of the round, coupled with the flexibility it offers across multiple platforms, makes me more inclined to go with it. If I eventually decide I want to do something different, I'll build or buy a new gun for it. Okay, so purpose. Target shooting. Weight not really a concern. I'd like the rifle to be capable of good accuracy out to as far as 1000 yards (but don't really care about further; not sure the cartridge could handle it, and even if it could, I also am not sure that I can). Probably will be shooting mostly 600-800 yards, however. I will not likely be hunting with this build, so I'm less concerned with weight and maneuverability. So, I heard back from PSA (already!), and was told that they will not part out the lower parts, so I have to get the full lower build kit when it comes back in stock. I think I'll just buy it when it does, because everyone that bought a PSA-10 will need one of them. I also asked about the buffer tube compatibility, especially with regards to the possibility of using a PRS stock, and as I surmised, it doesn't look good. Here's the response I got from PSA: "In regards to the Magpul PRS stock. We currently only use the adjustable Buffer Tube with our AR-10 lower receivers. The PA-10 Buffer Tube is mil-spec diameter, but is longer than a regular buffer tube. So, I am not sure if the Rifle Buffer Extension will work with the lower receiver. In addition to that. our PA-10 Buffer is shorter than a standard carbine length buffer, but is heavier. A Rifle length buffer would be needed with the buffer extension, and we are not sure if that is compatible with the lower either." So I think I'll be going with the ACS-L stock that I used on my last AR-15 build, which I like a lot. With regards to the barrel length. I have been doing quite a bit of reading. The consensus I've seen thus far suggests that out to 600 yards or so, 16" is just fine, or possibly even better. I want to have the option of shooting further, and am not at all concerned about weight. So ditch the flutes for sure. And I've read a number of posts suggesting that a 20" is more flexible than other lengths, although I suppose I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a 22" or 24". But it doesn't seem like there are significant gains getting 24" as opposed to a 20". So far I'm looking at Rainier Ultramatch and Krieger if I get the barrel separately. If I get anything else, it will likely be because it's included in a complete upper build. I am leaning towards Krieger because I want to have the barrel headspaced and chambered specifically for the aftermarket bolt I end up getting. There are a few types of builds that look interesting to me. On the cheap side of things is the Ares Armor Ajax build at 687, but with a 180 day wait and non-refundable, and unknown barrel quality, I'm somewhat hesitant on that one, even though that's a pretty good price. Also, not sure if it's compatible. Another complete upper I've looked at that I do like the looks of, is the Fulton Armory Peerless M110. That's probably on the upper end of what I want to spend. Another option I've been considering is to get an aftermarket DPMS BCG, the PA-10 stripped upper, assemble that, and get a Krieger barrel, and have Krieger chamber and headspace it to my bolt; maybe even do the full assembly. I'm looking at the Centurion CMR rail, which looks to be about the ticket for what I want. Hopefully it will fit on the Krieger barrel; I hear some people have had trouble with their CMR rails. I'm not sure I like the aesthetics of the Apex rail; verdict is still out on that one. Do I want a muzzle device of some sort? What about gas blocks? All questions for after I finish the lower build. So right now, my lower is looking as follows: PA-10 lower (168.99 shipped) PA-10 lower build kit (149.99 when it comes back in stock) Troy Ambi magazine release (65) Battle Arms Development BAD-ASS ambi safety (55?) Geissele SSA-E - 194 Magpul MOE grip Magpul ACS-L stock - 75, IIRC. Then I *just* need to figure out the upper and glass.

So, I realize that not too many people have these yet and thus there's not a lot of information. My build for this is probably going to take a while, with the upper coming last. I'm buying the parts one at a time so I can space out the cost. There's a lot to figure out, and I don't want to buy some parts until I'm sure of parts compatibility. I ordered the stripped lower first. I'm installing better parts than milspec, so didn't want to just get the basic parts kit, but it looks like I might have to, because some of the stuff is proprietary. I'm going to add in parts cost for my own edification so I can figure out later how much this whole build has set me back (if I dare to look at it). My main goal for this one is accuracy. I'm not concerning myself with weight at the moment, since I plan on shooting this guy primarily prone supported. I'm just going to track the build and share what insights I've gleaned, and ask questions as necessary on other parts. So, stripped lower cost 168.99 shipped, plus an extra 35 bucks for the background check and transfer costs (thank you stupid new law in Colorado). I already have a Magpul MOE grip from a previous build that I like just fine, although I may end up changing that. We'll call it free, because it came with a 49.99 LPK. I also bought a Troy ambi mag release. I have one on all of my AR's. As a lefty, I really like that part. So far it's my favorite of the ambi mag releases. I overpaid a bunch to get it locally, since my usual places to buy were sold out. Of course they came back in stock a week later, but hey, what can you do. Chalk up another 65.99 for that part. Next part ordered is the trigger. I sprang for a Geissele SSA-E. 194 shipped to my door (and not even on sale). Other part I plan on exchanging in the lower is the safety. I'm planning on a Battle Arms Development safety, although I had briefly been toying with getting the cheaper Strike Industries one and seeing how it is. It's less than half the price. But, if I'm getting premium parts for the rest of it, why cheap out on the safety, right? Right now there are lots of questions. So far I've established that the PA-10 is mostly DPMS compatible. The lower will mate with DPMS Gen 1 uppers, and vice versa. I'm not sure whether that's high profile or low profile yet (more reading to come). I gather the Gen 2 is shorter in overall length. The bolt catch, takedown pins, and buffer tube are all evidently proprietary. I'm currently trying to get them to sell me the proprietary parts separately, so I don't waste the other parts. I can't even fathom why they'd sell a lower parts kit without the buffer tube if they don't sell the buffer tube separately and it won't work with other aftermarket parts, and honestly, that strikes me as a stupid idea. But, hey, I can't complain too much about the price. I've inquired as to what sort of compatibility the buffer tube has; whether we're talking commercial or milspec, etc. I'm guessing AR-15 stocks will fit, but am awaiting confirmation. I also suspect that buffer compatibility will be somewhat limited, and probably won't work at all with the JP Captured assembly. Since, at the moment, they only have a carbine buffer tube out, the PRS stock I'd originally hoped to install will be out. Once I figure out the stock compatibility, then I'll be able to complete the lower, and can start thinking about the upper. That's where I run into a lot of confusion. Due to inexperience with headspacing, etc, I'm torn between buying a complete upper or having the upper assembled and headspaced for me by a barrel manufacturer. I'm also unsure about length, and compatibility for the handguards. I'm thinking I'm going to avoid Midwest Industries, as I hear those handguards are more fragile than I'd like. There are a few builds that look interesting to me, ranging in price from around 700 to 1500. I think I'd be around the 1300 mark if I buy the parts separately and have a Krieger barrel made for it, and have them headspace and chamber and assemble to the Nickel Boron bolt I'd like to get. Right now I'm thinking 20" barrel sounds about right. Fluted or not? Is that a good length? Any complete uppers in that range that you'd recommend? I'd like a keymod or similar free-float rail system, at least 12" long. What about muzzle devices? Any that particularly stands out? Thanks in advance for any opinions you can share. All are welcome, and rest assured I will be doing independent research for anything offered. I'm taking my time with this, both because of budget and because of parts availability. When all is said and done, then I get to think about optics. Right now I'm leaning towards a midrange Leupold or Vortex, but I might cheap out and get the Nikon M-308 that was recommended on the 308AR page while I save up for some really nice glass. Minimum budget for glass will be around 500, I think. I'm not sure my marriage will survive spending 1500 or so on glass though. I'm not really researching that too heavily until I get the upper sorted, however. That's going to be the biggest single budget item on the build, from what I can see.