Doodle

There seems to be a lot of options between 165-180 gr in hunting ammo. I'd certainly try those. I'd like to try these: http://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/rifle/caliber/308-win/vital-shok-sierra-gameking-boat-tail-sp/p308c and compare them to the 168 gr. SMKBTHP, which have impressed me.

I was only shooting military 147-150 gr ball ammo, then I came here. After several recommendations of match ammo, I finally gave it a try (168 Sierra match kings by Federal). I will echo the wisdom shared with me --- match ammo is that much better. I bet your gun will shoot 1 moa with match grade ammo.

No doubt. Just imagine how far the target can move around in 10 seconds of flight time. Target could've decided to tie his boot lace between the trigger pull and the hit. If I recall correctly, the Canadian snipers made a name for themselves in Kosovo. They've got a quite a sniper and anti-sniper reputation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canadian-sniper-iraq-world-record-longest-kill-shot-rifle-military-a7802151.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMillan_Tac-50 Hit was still within the effective firing range of 3,750 m (4,100 yd).

Thanks, guys. I am glad to provide an example of what the good advice and suggestions from you all can do. Perhaps someone else getting started can read this thread and be encouraged. I know I was a little bit disappointed early on and though maybe the gun would not be a one MOA gun. BTW, JT I got my 168s from PSA, as you pointed out. Definitely the best price around and I am hooked on the stuff now! Will have to try Magwa's suggestion of the Barnes 168TTSX solid copper bullets at some point, as he indicated that we've got the same basic gun/barrel. Another thing my fellow club member showed me was a very interesting demonstration of his reloads. He was dialing in some new loads and showed me the effect of barrel harmonic "nodes" through his loadings, where his groups converged in a low node, spread out again, then started to converge again on a high node. His take home message - can't beat proper reloads. So, will have to think if I ever would want to take it to that level. A lot to learn...

Shepp, been enjoying BRCC in the morning and throughout the day...will have to visit them in person if/when I get to Utah!

Well, here's an update... Finally got a chance to put some Federal Sierra Match King 168 BTHP thru the rifle based on Matt's advice and other's recommendations. Perhaps more importantly, got some instruction from one of my club members, who is a former Marine shooting instructor (yesterday on Memorial day no less). First, for an apples-to-apples comparison, the first two are targets of 5 shots each with the old 147 gr. Hirtenberger milsurp, same as before off of sandbags at 100 yards. Was worried one was good luck and the other bad luck. The next three are 5 shots each of the 168 Federal Sierra Match King 168s. If the one "flyer" from the 5 shot groups is taken away, the remaining four shots are under an inch with the best one at half an inch. Needless to say I was quite pleased and really attribute a lot of the success to my club member Gus who gave me some great instruction on shooting, especially with respect to holding the rifle from behind (rifle out in front) and not the side like I had previously set up on the bench. We had a little wind and the cottonwood seeds are blowing here in Michigan, but boy was I happy with the Federal ammo. BTW, Gus shoots 175 gr reloads out of a Rock River 24" inch stainless barrel and showed me some astounding 5 shot groups from 0.25 to 0.5 MOA. Anyhoo, thanks to all for the suggestions and help, and yes, I do now understand that match ammo is that much better! ps - A sincere thank you to all that have served (coming from a middle aged family man and desk job guy that can never really understand all you have done for us).

Just came from a Friends of NRA fundraiser (Huron Valley in Michigan) dinner this Friday evening. Our club is a local sponsor and affiliate member and I had such a nice time with great people. Was really nice to see the money that is parted out to local groups from the NRA foundation, first class folks. Glad to see clubs of young shooters and their mentors participating and I look forward to getting my kids involved. Anyone can find local events at friendsofnra.org and I hope your experience is/was as good as mine.

Whoa...I may just have to go there... Love the pirate vid most! Fresh roasted freedom! Yes!!!

I'm sure most have seen this, but I just love it!

I did! Definitely a java addict here. Love a noseful of a good smokey dark roast. Mmm...

If I recall correctly, I got it a couple years ago when I purchased the rifle. Just have not shot any till now. I think I got it from Cheaper than Dirt, as that is where I found the pic posted above. I also have milsurp from PPU that I have not opened yet. I have tried the Greek and Turkish FMJ ball. Seems the Greek is on par with the Hirtenberger for me, the Turkish not as good, but I have not shot a lot of either. The OTMRP is interesting as it has annular recesses near the base of the bullet, just before the case. They can be seen in the pic above. It must be going pretty fast at only 125 gr.

jtallen83, you are correct. I just checked my boxes and they are the same as this pic I found online, which indicates the same specs as "MK319 MOD 0".

Short follow-up, guys. Shot a few more targets last weekend with the Hirtenberger 150 gr FMJ and also tried some OTMRP 125 gr. The OTMRP appears to be "open tip match rear penetrating" and is apparently lighter than standard ball due to having a hollow nose and larger portion of copper (in place of lead) in the solid base. That's about all I really could find on it. Came in white boxes with black lettering and made it USA. Same targets as before - 100 yards and the squares are slightly larger than 1 inch and shot off a bench on bags. Each of the three targets shown below is the best of a series of four (12 total targets with 5 shots each). Based on Sisco's comment, begrudgingly limited the coffee, wasn't easy ;-). Was impressed with the OTMRP. Anyone else have any experience or insight with this ammo? I may try the OTMRP at 200 yards next time. I am also now in possession of some Federal match 168 gr FMJBT, but likely will not get to the range this weekend. Thanks and Happy Easter!

I did, they do, and its ordered! Free shipping, too. Thx.

Let me add that your groups of 1 inch and 1 hole are what prompted my original questions. I've looked through the locked thread above ("Lets see some targets - Range Pictures") and there are 300+ yard groups better than the 100 yard target I posted above. Some amazing shooting, imo.

Will definitely be getting some 168 match ammo based on Matt's comments and your comments. Its a little bit of a shock to see match ammo cost 3-4 times as much as milsurp, may have to piggyback on my buddy's reloading press using my accumulating pile of brass at some point! I rarely hunt large game, but got this rifle with that in mind. Have only used a shotgun and revolver to take a few deer here in southern MI. Northern lower and the upper peninsula are open to rifles, however. In response to Sisco, yes the barrel is 1 in 10 twist.

98, thanks for the links. Seems like Project Appleseed is fairly active in Michigan. Quite a few shoots not far from me. Looks like I would greatly benefit from it, let alone getting the kiddos through it. One thing I can appreciate is the value of good mentoring.

In the southern lower (a troll according to those Yoopers), but would rather be northern lower any day chasing trout or grouse. BTW, have family in Milwaukee. Been across the great lake on the SS Badger, too. Love the UP, but the drive is a killer. Most people don't realize with that lake in the way, it can take 9-10 hours to drive end-to-end in MI.

Bean, that target was selected from a half dozen, lol. Others usually had a flyer several inches away from the rest. Was frustrating to get 3-4 shots grouping well then pull one, lol. Lucked out with the one target I posted. I'm going to have my one bud (who is responsible for my fairly new expensive hobby) give the rifle a turn once I get some match ammo. His experience and skill are quite a ways ahead of mine. One reason I posted this is I've seen some amazing groups in some other posts. Just trying to sort out expectations. Nice looking dog, btw!

Matt, any prefs on match? Seems most match .308 is 168 gr or even 175 gr. I did find Norma USA Tac and Match Rifle Ammo in 150 gr FMJ-BT, which might be a more apples-to-apples comparison with the milsurp. I'm likely going to pick some up based on your suggestion. Thanks.

Been reading the forum for a couple years and just made my first post in General Discussion, so figured I'd post an introduction. Most of my firearm experience is shotgunning for 25 years plus now, usually behind my birddog at the time. Love the Great Lakes area and the outdoors in general. Member of a great sportsmans club and have a couple buddies who have got me into rifle shooting. Hard to find time with the family and kids anymore, but hope to get them out to the range as they grow. Lots of great regulars here with an amazing collection of experience and knowledge. Hope to contribute whatever small way I can. Thanks!

Wondering what kind of performance people get or expect out of milsurp .308 ammo. I am relatively new to rifles (shotgun bird hunter here), but got the rifle bug from some buddies a couple years ago. Well, I'm finally getting around to some more range time. Have a DPMS Recon, old model (not GenII), that has a 16" barrel with a Redfield 3x9x42 in a Burris PEPR mount. Got the scope almost dialed in shooting several 5-shot groups at 100 yards off a bench with bags. There are about 200 rounds through the gun, first 100 rounds were with the MagPul sights that came on the gun, then I've moved the scope around a few times. The attached pic is one of my better groups yesterday out of several targets, some would have a flier out of the five shots (my overly caffeinated fault). Note that the squares are a little bigger than 1", I think they are 1 MOA. Ammo is Hirtenberger (Austria). Question: is this what I can expect as the best with this ammo? I'm pretty sure that I am the limiting factor still with respect to accuracy, but was wondering how much better it might get. I also have milsurp from Greece, Turkey, PMC, and PPU plastic battle packs. These are all 147 to 150 gr. Should I get some 'match' ammo to compare? Is it really that much better? Thanks for any insight and recommendations.