W.E.G.

ALL of it. No seriously, we've been moving houses, and dealing with weddings, and Form 1's. Plus maybe some of you have heard, there's this CLOVES thing going around. I hear you get it from smoking spiced cigarettes. Sounds inconvenient whatever it is. And I wish folks would stop dancing on the damn dumpster back of the McDonalds. Eats up too much of my time. I'm shooting the 1903 Mark 1 in the next match. Would rather not, but my buddy says its mandatory. My other buddy who's left-handed I'm telling he's gotta shoot it too. 10 shots in 70 seconds from sitting position left handed should be worth video. Got the call today that that one my stamps showed up. Gotta pick that up and stick it on the end of the LR-308. So, you know, a little this,... a little that,... shrubba. I got a lot of things to do.

Yeah. something like that I suck at keeping track of names. Not that it’s relevant, but I’m better at remembering smells.

Sorry for being absentee in this thread. I sold the upper some months ago to a fella on ARFCOM who had taken a keen interest in it. I didn't shoot the Fulton bolt in the gun enough to reach a conclusion based on evidence as to whether that Gen 2 barrel (extension) would have eaten-up the Fulton Bolt. The Fulton bolt seemed to weather the brief experience testing without issue. I just kept using the Palmetto bolt because I was curious and reckless. I wanted to see how bad it could get. Indeed it was VERY BAD. Traded the lower to a buddy for some bullets. I probably would have kept the upper for the heck of it if I thought time would allow me to do anything more with it. With a decent bolt, I think it would have been fine as a UTILITY rifle. I just didn't want to spend the big coin to install a different barrel altogether, and with some notion that it might shoot better groups. The Palmetto barrel was never going to group as well as I can hold. Which made that the last nail in the coffin for the project from my standpoint. I am blessed/cursed with PLENTY other "utility rifles" to play with. I think about that Palmetto rifle from time to time. But not usually for very long. I hope my experience and comments posted in this forum are of interest and entertainment to all. If I achieve that, the project was a relative success.

The Virginia General Assembly is going to make it a FELONY for me to continue to own this rifle in 2020. Please understand that my enthusiasm to continue putting time and money into this rifle is somewhat muted for now. This is what is coming to Virginia in January. https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?192+ful+HB4021 § 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession, etc., of assault firearms prohibited; penalty. A. For purposes of this section: "Assault firearm" means: 1. A semi-automatic center-fire rifle that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material with a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 10 rounds; 2. A semi-automatic center-fire rifle that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the rifle; (iii) a thumbhole stock; (iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand; (v) a bayonet mount; (vi) a grenade launcher; (vii) a flare launcher; (viii) a silencer; (ix) a flash suppressor; (x) a muzzle brake; (xi) a muzzle compensator; (xii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting (a) a silencer, (b) a flash suppressor, (c) a muzzle brake, or (d) a muzzle compensator; or (xiii) any characteristic of like kind as enumerated in clauses (i) through (xii); 3. A semi-automatic center-fire pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material with a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 10 rounds; 4. A semi-automatic center-fire pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a thumbhole stock; (iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand; (iv) the capacity to accept a magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (v) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the pistol with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (vi) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; (vii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting (a) a silencer, (b) a flash suppressor, (c) a barrel extender, or (d) a forward handgrip; or (viii) any characteristic of like kind as enumerated in clauses (i) through (vii); 5. A shotgun with a revolving cylinder that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material; or 6. A semi-automatic shotgun that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material that has one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a thumbhole stock, (iii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the shotgun, (iv) the ability to accept a detachable magazine, (v) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds, or (vi) any characteristic of like kind as enumerated in clauses (i) through (v). "Assault firearm" includes any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert, modify, or otherwise alter a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts that may be readily assembled into an assault firearm. "Assault firearm" does not include (i) a firearm that has been rendered permanently inoperable, (ii) an antique firearm as defined in § 18.2-308.2:2, or (iii) a curio or relic as defined in § 18.2-308.2:2. B. It shall be is unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells, manufacture, purchase, possess, or transport an assault firearm. A violation of this section shall be is punishable as a Class 6 felony. C. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) any government officer, agent, or employee, or member of the Armed Forces of the United States, to the extent that such person is acquiring, possessing, transferring, or transporting an assault firearm within the scope of his official duties; (ii) the manufacture of an assault firearm by a firearms manufacturer for the purpose of sale to any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or to a law-enforcement agency in the Commonwealth for use by that agency or its employees, provided that the manufacturer is properly licensed under federal, state, and local laws; or (iii) the sale or transfer of an assault firearm by a licensed dealer to any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or to a law-enforcement agency in the Commonwealth for use by that agency or its employees.

I'm probably gonna just mothball it at this point. I've tested everything I can test. I've fixed everything I can fix - except the barrel. Whether its the barrel (I suspect it is), or something else (I've changed damn-near everything else on the gun!), what I know for sure is, this rifle does not shoot to the standard of accuracy I demand for the purpose of which I intended it. Configured as best as I can to comply with the "service rifle" rule for M-110 rifle in NRA/CMP National Match competition. Virginia gun laws do not bode well for this rifle in 2020. If it isn't legal to be seen with it in public on July 1, you won't be seeing me with it in public.

I may just do that. First gotta see what the Blackface-Klansman Governor pulls off between now and next summer. This from his medical school yearbook. Is there anybody LESS qualified to decide my rights???

Yeah I misspoke when I said 40.0 before. Its been 41.1 all along.

Here are the two targets I fired today with the PA-10, using Federal Gold Medal ammo with 168-grain bullet

1/10 twist on the PA-10 guns. 1/10 on the DPMS gun too.

The TAC load wasn’t “developed” for that rifle unless roughly matching 41.5 IMR4895 velocity constitutes “development.”

Little range report. I shot the PA-10 with Federal Gold Medal 168. I’d say it shot the FGM a little bit better than my TAC 41.1 / 168SMK. But not by much. Definitely not enough to commend the Palmetto barrel. I’ll post a couple of those targets shortly. But first, I want to show y’all something about that TAC handload of mine fired from a different rifle. Again, all firing at 200 yards, prone, sling-support only. DPMS LR-308-T, unmodified except Geissele trigger and the UBR buttstock. Service rifle sling not shown in this pic. This pic shows the 10-shot target. I bracketed the actual target with a paper target that is the correct 600-yard-reduced-for-200, and the Shoot-N-C target that has appeared in some of the previous target pics I’ve posted. This is the kind of accuracy to which I’m accustomed, and which I require of any rifle I will use in competition. The two lowest shots, were called low when fired. No crazy off-call shots like the PA-10 routinely sends. Sometimes it’s the load. I get that concept. I truly believe it’s THE GUN in the case of the PA-10.

I hear ya But I’m not optimistic. Considering the origin of this barrel, and the low price paid, the adage, “You get what you pay for” looms on this effort. I’ve got some Federal Gold Medal, and some Lake City M852. Even have a box of “white box” long-range that was issued to the Navy team shortly before the Navy quit most support for rifle teams. Might as well try it as medicine on a patient that badly needs a cure. Weather for the range supposed to be very nice today. Even if the Palmetto gun still sucks, it will be a fine day to be outdoors.

If it gives you any comfort or perspective on the load-choice (I know some people haven't used much TAC), I shot a LOT of 41.5 4895 through this gun. Same result. Group all over the place. I had hoped that the chewed-up bolt would be the thing at the bottom of this gun's poor performance. I guess not.

It shoots about the same as 41.5 grains IMR 4895 out of my M1A. I don't shoot the M1A much these days, because it has iron sights, and I just can see them well enough most days to make spending a day with it worth my while. Give the load a try in a rifle that you shoot well. The 168SMK is for-sure a good bullet. Be sure you shoot it in a rifle with a good barrel.

TARGET 1 . . . TARGET 2 . . . TARGET 3/

Range report. TLDR version - Accuracy still sucks. Rifle is junk. I fired prone all shots today. Beautiful conditions. Light overcast, which is perfect lighting conditions for this type of shooting. I fired at four targets. I'll post pics of three of the targets below. No point in posting the target I used to re-establish zero, and on which I was cranking sight knobs. I had to come down about two minutes from what I thought was my correct zero. You may care to know that the targets for the 13-shot and 10-shot groups are correct reduced targets for 200 yards to simulate the 600 yard NRA highpower rifle target. The Shoot-N-C centers very closely approximate the correct location of the scoring rings for that target. The aiming-black area of each target is approximately 13-inch diameter. All firing from prone, sling-supported position. I normally like to test accuracy by shooting 10-shot groups. First target has 13 shots because I concluded that my zero was actually off by a couple scope clicks (1/10 mil - same as 1/3 MOA per click). Group is pretty much all over the place. I called one shot low, and two shots left. I called one shot "loose" - no call really - but you know when you shoot one of those that it could land anywhere - which it did out to the right in the 7 ring. Otherwise, all shots broke solid center. I shot the extra three shots in this group because it was already such a mess, I wanted to see where two clicks left would put me. Second target is a 5-shot group. I fired this on a different bank of targets,a and also after making the aforesaid two-click adjustment. This actually gave me some hope that maybe that first mess of a target was just me. I could live with this kind of accuracy. Third target is 10 shots. This target was right next to the nice 5-shot target, and was fired immediatly after that 5-shot target. Again, we've got shots pretty much all over the place. First two shots were high 8's. Each called a good center shot. After that, the hits just danced around wherever. That, despite me calling the shots good. I definitely had my position and trigger control established by the time I was on this third target. The gun ran fine with the new ToolCraft BCG. The bolt seems to have weathered the day without being chewed-up like the Palmetto bolt. But, accuracy just suck. Only three things could be happening here. 1. Maybe the ammo is terrible - I doubt that. I've always said that if you shoot a good bullet through a good barrel, you will get good results shooting at service rifle targets. Things like choice of casing, or primer, or powder tend to matter very little compared to the major factors of "good bullet and good barrel." 2. Maybe I just can't shoot this rifle, even though its a slightly large version of the same rifle which I can consistently shoot high master scores (97%+) on a 200-yard range. So I doubt its the shooter. 3. Maybe its something about the rifle - who knows what. I suspect its simply the barrel. Like I said, "A good bullet through a good barrel..." At this point, I'm going with "bad barrel" as the major reason this rifle can barely hold the 8-ring on an NRA highpower rifle prone target. The cost of a replacement barrel is really not the issue at this point. Unfortunately, I live in goddamfugkingVirginia, and this gun is about to be BANNED by the asswipes who just took over our government. I'm not gonna spend money on a new barrel I can't legally shoot. The new laws will go into effect July 1. I'll decide what to do about this gun sometime between now and then.

I understand the principle of your concern.

Below is the Dremel bit I used to de-burr the locking lugs on my barrel extension. I used only my fingers to "drive" the bit. I did not install the bit actually in the motorized rotary tool. I spent about 45 minutes, while watching TV, going over the radius-edge of each lug of the barrel extension. Prior to the de-burring job, the lugs on the barrel extension would "grab" bits of Q-Tip cotton when cleaning the lugs. Now, the lugs do not grab any cotton. I went back to the old thread and I'm re-posting the pic of the lugs of the barrel extension as it appeared some months BEFORE last night's adjustment with the dremel bit. . .

No. I did not.

Got it all put back together now. Gave the bore the bizniss with some JB while I had it off the rifle. Torqued the original nut (the ate-up one) to 55 foot pounds. Installed the new ToolCraft bolt/carrier group. Small-diameter firing pin, double ejectors. Less and less of this rifle is still Palmetto. Sure hope that Palmetto barrel extension doesn't eat up that new bolt. Headspace measured out at 1.634". That's about where it was at with the Palmetto bolt. I know that's a little on the long side (Forster No-Go gage is 1.634"). I could tell the 1.634 gage closed tight. Should have known better than to try to get it to swallow the 1.635" gage. Man, that thing stuck in there like a sumbitch at partial batttery. Mortar/pogo was no-go. Had lay the big rubber mallet against the ear of the charging handle and wail on the rubber mallet with a four-pound sledge to get it to open up. I gotta stop doing that. But I just HAD TO KNOW. Now I know what I knew before I pulled that stunt. It aint gonna swallow a 1.635. So yeah, 1.630 is the "perfect" headspace for .308. I doubt 0.004" is the cause of the up-down stringing. But, who really knows. Still need to put the scope and sling back on. I'll do that, and shoot a pic in the morning when the light in the room is a little better. Taking it to the range in a couple of days. Sure hope it at least cycles with the new bolt.

I just tried yanking the pin out with a pair of needle-nose vise grips. She aint coming out that way. BTW, that pin is hard metal. Put a divot in the tip of the cheap vise trip pliers. So, banged it back down as deep as I could get it. Probably won't chew up the barrel nut during install. Fully expect it to migrate back out and chew the nut some more on next removal.

The theory that the pin is moving around seems to be supported by the fact that the worst damage to the barrel nut didn't occur until the THIRD time I removed the nut.

Someone asked: I beat on the pin and down she went. I have concerns that she'll just migrate back up. Can I yank it out and then fill the hole with JB Weld and beat it back in to hope it will stay put?

I should also mention that I separately mounted a replacement barrel nut, JL Billet part #JLB-308-BN16, and I experienced the same sort of binding and damage to the nut. All the pics you see above however are the Palmetto barrel nut. I'm pretty sure its the index-pin standing proud that is causing the problem. But, I'm fairly new to wrenching on AR-type guns. Figured I would make inquiry before breaking out the dremel, and shortening the index-pin.

Palmetto PA-10. I removed the barrel nut three times as I was doing inspections and other adjustments. Each time, the barrel nut came off the gun with a lot of binding, and damage to the barrel nut. This pic shows what the barrel nut looked like when I removed for the third time. On each removal, there were bits of aluminum from the barrel nut left behind in the barrel nut. This third time seems the worst. . . Next pic shows the barrel mounted in the receiver. Is this index-pin standing-proud too far, and contacting the barrel nut, and shearing the point off the threads of the nut? . . Here is a pic of the barrel mounted in the receiver after the third removal of the barrel nut. Notice that the threads on the receiver are completely undamaged.