W.E.G.

Regarding Sunday's outing, in order of severity of impact on score: 1. Wind reading 2. Shot execution 3. Equipment

I did enjoy the outing. I wish the wind would blow like that more often. I might actually get good at reading it. At least it kept the biting flies away!

Shot three strings of 20 at 600 yards today at Fort Hill (Cumberland Maryland) Wind was WHIPPING. Today was the most wind I have ever seen at Fort Hill. Wind was blowing shooting mats off the firing line and blowing-over shooting stools and chairs. Temperatures in mid-40's all day. First string was with my AR15 and my best 600-yard ammo (24.4 Varget and 80 SMK). Score was OK. At least it was a master score. Second string was same AR15 but with my "short line" ammo (24.2 Varget and 75 Hornady). Huge difference in how much bullet was pushed around by wind. Third string is what I promised to report. Shot with Palmetto PA-10 that has been subject of this thread. I think the gun did OK. My performance behind the gun... not so much. Play-time with the PA-10 at 600 yard line. My scorekeeper was kind enough to plot shot-location on each shot. The dot in each score-block indicates the approximate location of the impact relative to the center of the target. For instance, Shot #1 was a shot-value of 8, with impact at roughly 4 o'clock (per the dot). First sighter at 600 way low off my estimate. Second sighter at 600 came up 3 minutes (not enough) First record-shot came up 2 more minutes (out the top) second record-shot still too high and wind is making me its bitch already because I'm thinking about elevation issues, and not paying attention to what the wind was doing. Paid for that carelessness. Shots 3-5 Paying attention to the wind and doing OK Shot 6 probably a bad shot (corner shot), but why not correct off a bad shot? Because shot 7. That's why. Out the right now. Shot 8 Figured shot 7 was a bad shot, so don't correct windage.Send another shot to the same spot in the damn 7-ring. Shots 9-12 creeping back from the right side slowly while the wind was playing me more. Shot 13 Completely lose my mind. Bold correction. If you're gonna do bold corrections, might as well put a cherry on it by turning the knob the wrong direction. Hello 5-ring! Shot 14 Still don't want to believe I screwed-up shot 13 so bad. Insufficient correction. Shot 15 Getting really confused, and afraid to touch the knobs. So send another one into almost the same place in the 8-ring as previous shot. Shots 16-17 Creeping back from the right again (favoring some instead of touching knobs). Shot 18 Favored way too much. Way out the left. Shot 19 Nothing to lose now. Just hold center, and try not to flinch. Finally in the X-ring. Shot 20 Do it again. A 10. Well, that was ugly. Mostly ME being ugly. If I had made better wind calls, and if I hadn't made a big brainfart on shot 13, overall score would have been quite a bit better.

Thanks. I just installed the clicky-locky Magpul "XTM" cheese-grater covers on the back half of the graters. Wow. That REALLY makes the rifle more comfortable to handle when wearing an NRA/CMP-legal shooting glove on my left hand. Instead of all the pressure being one rail of the grater on one finger-joint in the palme of my hand, the load is distributed WIDELY. I was going to take a day off from the range tomorrow. But, I'm so excited about the way that handguard feels now, I gotta go get some tomorrow! Cosmetically, with the pic-rails, and the rail covers, the gun is looking a little porky in the handguard area now. But hey, the proof has to be on the scorecard. We shall see. I want to go to Cumberland on Sunday for the 3x600 match but the forecast at Warrior Mountain range is looking mighty cold and wet at this point.

Another range-trip with the PA-10 today in its 15.2# configuration. I still need to add some rail-covers, because the cheese-grater wasn't getting along so well with my left hand, even with a Creedmoor shooting glove. I shot two targets. First target I made some corrections on the sight-adjustment. Target posted here, I left the knobs alone. I have a bad habit of sending the first shot high. Hoping more familiarization, and rail-covers will mitigate that. I fired all shots by feed from the magazine. But, I did break position on each shot to scope the shot in the spotting scope. So far, I'm encouraged by the accuracy this barrel tries to provide when I do my part.

I'm not sure if something weird is happening when I post. I just posted eight pics of brass, and then the post disappeared.

The Palmetto bolt was used in firing each of these batches of brass. The only thing that changed was the installation of the Fulton extractor assembly on SECOND BATCH and THIRD BATCH.

OK, I understand what you are asking about now. Sounds almost like what I had to do to get my 1911 to stop throwing brass backwards, and into my girlfriend's face and then down her blouse. I'll get you some info on that. I received a spare extractor spring and insert from Fulton today. I may install those parts in the Palmetto extractor, and try it in the Palmetto bolt at the range to see if it might really be down to exclusively the extractor springs.

Comparison/Compilation in case anybody is interested

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking to see. Are you asking to see the Palmetto extractor equipped with the Fulton spring-assembly in order to observe where the rear of the Palmetto extractor sits when so-equipped?

Looks like both of my reviews on the Palmetto site are still squashed. Palmetto sent me a reply via email.

Wow. My review was up initially. Looks like Palmetto yanked both of my reviews in fact. I gave the upper a 3-star review - with explanation as to why stars taken away due to specific flaws. I gave the lower a 5-star review with caveat that buttstock and trigger are basic, and should be replaced with better examples of each. Here's what I posted for the upper:

My "review" is live on the Palmetto website https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen2-pa10-20-rifle-length-308-win-1-10-stainless-steel-15-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-and-ch-5165447551.html

Just to be sure we're on the same page regarding what I'm reporting, my rifle is a 20" barrel. My gas port will accept a 3/32" (0.09375") drill bit with a very snug fit.

There may have been some that actually WERE over-gassed in prior iterations of this model. All you have to do is look at the drunk-bubba-with-a-coarse-stone-dremel feed-ramp "fitting" that was done to the barrel extension on mine to conclude that Palmetto's efforts with these rifles is a "work in progress." I got in there and smoothed-out some of the "rhythm section" that Bubba carved into the ramps before actually firing the rifle. But in this pic, before I worked on it, you can see that Bubba left the ramps rough enough that they actually pulled fibers off a Q-tip (see right-side ramp) when I was examining the ramps.

I fired three types of ammo in the Palmetto PA-10 today, with the Fulton Armory extractor assembly installed in the Palmetto bolt. Also installed the Fulton Armory 15.5” gas tube in the original Palmetto non-adjustable has block. Rifle ran just fine. I don’t know whether the shorter Palmetto gas tube was actually ever the reason the rifle wouldn’t eject spent cases reliably. I’m confident it never would have cycled reliably if I hadn’t gotten rid of that weak Palmetto two-spring extractor spring assembly. It is entirely possible that the PA-10 uppers will run OK so long as you get rid of the Palmetto extractor springs, and replace them with a quality extractor spring, and polymer extractor-support insert, and correct-size O-ring.

I decided to take a look at the Palmetto website to see whether they might be selling PA-10 extractors separately. Here's what I found (and note "NOT IN STOCK" as are many PA-10 individual parts): https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa-10-extractor-rebuil-kit.html Only a single spring and double O-rings. Call me unimpressed.

From the look of it, the Palmetto extractor spring looks highly questionable. The proof is always in performance. Testing the Palmetto bolt with Fulton spring AND extractor Wednesday. Not planning on testing narrow-claw Palmetto extractor further if Fulton extractor and spring together run 100%.

Regarding the EJECTOR, I want to note that when the Palmetto bolt in its factory-configuration did actually eject brass, the brass landed in the same place that the Fulton bolt deposited it. The Palmetto EJECTOR spring seems very strong, and seems comparable in strength to the Fulton bolt. I perceive no binding/roughness in the movement of the Palmetto ejector. I cannot depress it with my fingernail using my bare hand. I can only depress it using a tool, or using a cartridge casing levered under the lip of of the extractor.

Probably range-trip Wednesday. Expecting another Fulton Armory 15.5" gas tube to arrive tomorrow. Plan is install the 15.5" tube in the original non-adjustable Palmetto gas block, and see how things function with the modified Palmetto bolt (Fulton extractor assembly added), versus the full Fulton bolt assembly. I suspect this failure-to-extract issue is going to turn out to be all about the inadequate springs in the original Palmetto extractor. I plan to keep the 15.5" gas tube installed in the gun no matter what. Again, why settle for an unnecessarily-short gas tube when a longer tube is available. The short tube should work "most of the time," right?

Here's a side-by-side comparison

Here is what I removed from the Palmetto bolt.

When I was digging around in the AR-10 parts box today, I found this. So, THIS is now installed in the Palmetto bolt.

I think that pretty much seals the deal as far as the verdict on the Palmetto extractor spring being inadequate. The jury is still out on the issue of whether the claw of the extactor itself being 0.020" narrower than the Fulton claw as to inadequacy. I may get around to experimenting with the Fulton spring and polymer insert with the narrow Palmetto claw. But, I'd prefer to have the wider claw, and let that just be that. Why have less claw when more is available? If I'm attacked by one of the really big squirrels, I don't want some nagging concern about having saved a few bucks on an extractor. It works "most of the time," right?

Little bit of updated on the PA-10 project. Cutting straight to the chase, note the difference in how much the tail-end of the extractor stands proud (or doesn't stand proud) of the Palmetto extractor vs. the Fulton extractor. The two pics that follow show the relative stand-proudness of the two extractors when installed in the Palmetto bolt, but WITHOUT the extractor axis-pin installed. PALMETTO (weak stand-proud) FULTON (proud stand-proud)