StainTrain

Tom is correct about the lowers and the barreling.

I fixed that for you..........

Amen.

You should have invited those guys out to Renzo's tonight.

Thanks for your input. As stated before this is apples and oranges, and I want to expand on SS's and Tom's posts. Competition: You see very few active Snipers participate in F-TR or any other BR style competition. To rebut your statement about never seeing a Sniper win an F Class Competition, there are tactical rifle competitions out there that I have yet to see an F-Class shooter win. I do appreciate the level of precision that goes into your craft, but I have never met a Sniper (Military or LEO) who stated the reason they signed up for the training was to do long range shooting. These guys are precise (enough) and if you go to ASC or Mammoth you will appreciate just how precise they are considering the obstacle (loopholes) they have to negotiate to make their shot. Most snipers compete to get better at engaging targets while under physical stress, environmental and time limits....not to get better at shooting targets. Very few targets (living or in TRC) are the size of a full silhouette. Wind: I have no doubt there are some great wind readers out there in your shooting community. Snipers often read wind from a hide using a variety of things, none of which include range flags or any meaningful use of a kestrel. Again, apples and oranges from F-Class wind callers. Barrel Length: Most snipers are concerned with portability and concealability. The 16, 18, and 20 inch barrels (depending on barrel maker) are plenty accurate and even though some of the bullets they are firing are hit their target at sub-sonic speeds, they are still very lethal Remember the 230gr .45 is sub-sonic at the muzzle.... The Semi-Auto platforms (MK11, OBR, JP, REPR,) used by .mil, .gov, and numerous LEOs, have proven themselves in a variety of venues. They may not be not Palma Comp worthy, but for their size and robustness, they are phenomenal weapons and have excellent track record.

^^^^^^^Yep These help: http://www.diamondxcustom.com/shop/4585061671/harris-bipod-spikes/8288791 They have several different styles of feet out there and some guys custom make them. Phoenix Tactical used to make a very nice pair that you could load on a lot of surfaces.... All that to say, you guys have seen the benefits and limitations of the harris set up. It is a classic set up that most people are familiar with. .......enter the Atlas Bipod. It has adjust-ability to accommodate a variety of positions and surfaces.......however....a hard surface is a hard surface and just like with the harris, your best bet may come from driving the bipod into the edge of that hard surface to load it that way.

That is what my oldest needs....if I can get her away from the bow long enough.

I think understanding the bipods role is crucial to getting the most out of it. I am fortunate enough to see both novice and advanced shooters alike employ the bipod. I see unloaded bipods and bipods loaded with the force of hoover dam behind it. You should only load it with the resting weight of your core. If you are shooting off a pack (which yes, you can shoot really well that way), you are not actively driving the rifle, you are merely resting it. The loaded bipod affords you the opportunity to mitigate recoil and maintain control of your rifle shot after shot. IMO opinion, when you shoot a semi auto (be it 5.56 or .308) without loaded the bipod, slung or pressed barricade, you are not getting the most the platform has to offer (rapid follow up shots without bolt manipulation for one). If you find it difficult to get a consistent load with the harris, take a look at the atlas. I suggest that before scrapping the bipod all together. Again, I want to stress, shooting off a pack and sandbags is excellent and allow for great shots, I just think a properly employed bipod is better.

I am glad you like it.....I KNEW YOU WOULD. Timney is a solid company. Although, these triggers are easy to adjust, having Timney adjust it for you, IMO, makes a difference. This company take tremendous pride in their products. Sweet rifle.

They are ugly, but damn....they are very functional.

If you guys have spent much time around the belly shooters, you would already know that many of them share that uppity attitude toward the working shooter....some conceal it well....some don't. I do not compete in F class, but I have gone on a few field trips for research purposes. I would say you're half right.....Tom has forgotten more than I can learn.......and for the record....I really don't know poop....I only step in occasionally.

I have fond memories of Ben Avery.

Very sharp. If you don't want to invite the man into your life, the sig brace is a nice alternative.

Forget it.....I am talking with a ghost..... <lmao>

Barrel length is important. I think most people know that, but I don't think they attach the same importance to it that you do given their accuracy and distance shooting requirements. You are correct in that the military and several LEO agencies have as of late has chosen several platforms which offer higher velocity/high bc rounds. Since this is not the place, when you are at your competition tomorrow, see if one of those snipers there will discuss with you their preference and why in addition to the .308 being able to get the job done....transonic instability and all. Ask any of them, if they would prefer to carry a Barrett or MK13 over a MK11 or 12. Of course it is mission dependent, but you see where I am coming from. This forum is not geared toward snipers of sniper wannabes. The fact is that most firearms enthusiast view military/police sniper accuracy as an acceptable level of accuracy and they reference that a lot. The hunters on here seek info on engaging moving targets, ranging moving targets, external ballistics and multiple shot engagements.....all things that people who have spent time as snipers can assist with. You can hear the wind at the camera, which is to say it is at the muzzle, which means it is going to touch the bullet. You, nor I, can determine from the set of facts provided in that video which direction the wind is coming from and what it is doing between those terrain features. I know you have been shooting the .308 for over 30 years and there is a certain knowledge that comes with that experience, but let me add in my profession, I work with people who have been doing he job for 20-30 years and I find those people more resistant to new technology, new ideas, and new ways of doing things than anyone else. I have no doubt you are a good shot, but you won't reach people if you tell them that you are good and can back it up. If you don't know this already, there is always someone better out there. Now on to the forum....you got off to a rough start, I don't imagine you introduce yourself like this at matches, social gatherings, or dinner with your wife's friends. This forum is full of imperfect human beings, but by and large you don't see the BS occurring here that occurs on other boards. The guy you have butted heads with is a very knowledgeable guy and an awesome contributor here, but he, like the rest of us that have hung around awhile, want to head off any problems before they get started. Shooting is an individual sport, but don't forget that you are joining a team when you enter a forum, the team isn't joining you.

I would like to point out that in this video you can clearly hear wind blowing.

Pegasus-Despite your "I have shot more .308 that all of you" rhetoric, you are correct that the faster your bullet goes and the longer it can sustain its velocity the less time environmental factors (wind) has to play with it....but that only tells a portion the story. The article does a good job of explaining its position and provides data to back up its assertions......plus here is the author's background: Josh Wayner is a senior at Grand Valley State University studying Applied Research Science in the Interdisciplinary Studies Major. He has been a competitive shooter for nearly ten years and has eleven CMP medals from Camp Perry. Josh is also the owner of Scally Hill Systems and is constantly developing and testing new things. Long range shooting has been his passion for many years and he continues to push the envelope in modern rifle design. This guy doesn't seem like he walked in off the range with an opinion. I appreciate your competitive experience, but I would like to add.... Sniping is long range precision fire (so is big game hunting). It is not laying on your belly shooting a X or a 10 ring with a bipod the size of a compact car. You talk about conditions (wind/density altitude) as if that is the only thing a hunter or sniper has to overcome. Shooting positions (tripod/barricade/tree stump), fatigue, infil/exfil, rapidly changing weather, target speed, etc are all considerations of which most F Class competitors have no concept. We agree sniping and F-Class are nothing alike. I am glad that anyone from young kids to old women can purchase a custom rifle, lay on their bellies and shoot 1k all afternoon, but I ask that those competitors don't look or talk down to people who do it slightly less accurately than you do with a lowest bidder rifle and scope in conditions and circumstances that require a little more work that just toting the rifle from the truck to the firing line......all the while still making quality hits on target. Welcome to the forum and I have no doubt some can learn from you, but please consider keeping you ego in check here. This is friendly welcoming crowd....(unlike any forum on the web), but if you lay your nuts on the table someone is going to slap them for you.

In my limited exposure, I don't think it was just one guy. There was a guy on the guild that worked for them didn't do much to help their reputation. I do want to add that the BCGs that we finally got actually run great and have not provided one second of trouble. I think the company is capable of producing and acquiring decent products. I am sore that they bungled the lower receiver deal they had going, then came out with the deal coin thing to buy time or whatever reason. It sounds like they are trying to get their house in order and when/if they do, I will consider purchasing from them.

Fell through.....back on the market.

Excellent point. Plus...once you move from punching paper to a walking, talking, thinking 10 rings, your needs and priorities change......I'm talking about deer hunting.

Well stated, sir.

SPF

Which still has me wondering why go the preorder route. I hope they turn it around but when word gets out about SOW doing preorders again you can expect negative press in the gun world.

I hope so. When I saw the pre-order, it brought me back to the whole lower receiver saga. The pre order deal is what soured a lot of people on Shadow-ops...as well as Dennis lashing out on other forums when people started getting frustrated. I am of the opinion that you shouldn't use capital from pre-sales to acquire parts, but rather from investors or SBA type loans. This is just an observation, please do not take it as being disrespectful.