BigNate

Thanks for this... I'm really struggling with how the gun could / would pass any function test with the wrong length tube? Is it just that they built a batch of their own tubes and had a manufacturing defect resulting in slightly too short / too long tubes which cause issues? I can't imagine that they used the "wrong length" (like a carbine length on a mid-length barrel)? I also noted that the current PA10 has an adjustable gas block - does yours?

@98Z5V - So - what would you expect it to cost to make the gun above function reliably (or - if the answer is "no clue - too many and too varied problems" - I want to hear that)... Are the issues mentioned in this thread consistent (undersized gas port in the barrel, issue with gas tube length, replace the buffer and spring) - or is it likely that there are other problems as well? The "fine print" says that the blem is cosmetic only ("...may include, but is not limited to, forging marks under the finish, scratches, slight variation in the finish color coat..."). If they are looking at fixing those problems, I'm thinking that they'd be somewhere between $75 - $150 in "fixes" to make it function well ($15 gas tube, $40 buffer/spring, and somewhere between $50-$100 to have a gunsmith open up the gas port assuming that they don't want to buy a carbide bit or reamer and do it themselves). When I look at what is out there (complete guns) the only things I see even close to that price range are from companies that I've never heard of (may be good, may be bad, no clue)... then there's Ruger at about $1000, S&W at about $1100, and from there - anything from a name that I recognize starts at about $1500 and goes up from there. Building one with "good enough" parts, sourced today, looks like a $1000+ exercise. So - if $759 gets you an imperfect base gun from which to build and they can make it reliable for another $100 - it might still get them into the game... that's my thought anyway... Am I thinking about this wrong?

A friend sent this to me and I thought I'd share it here... It's not an Armalite, or Knights Armorment or DD - but if it does not function I bet they fix or replace it - or , for the price, you can fix / improve it and be ahead of the game. PSA Blem AR-10 Yes - you get what you pay for. On the other hand - it's about 70% of what I just spent on parts (and on top of may spend add S/H and a few things I had on hand) and less than 50% of the list price of the parts that I bought to build one. I have PSA AR-15s that work well. Picture for the future when the ad is gone...

Correction to the post above (for the record). I realized that I mis-spoke here. I swapped in a standard CARBINE buffer and spring from another AR15 (not actually a rifle buffer).

Great to see you today @98Z5V - thanks for the assistance in getting things sorted. For those following along - we learned some things. 1) With the gas system wide open, the red Springco spring and H3 buffer work nicely with the supersonic 210 gr rounds - but the subsonic 285 gr rounds don’t have enough mph to cycle properly with that buffer / spring combination 2) Swapping out the buffer and spring for the basic rifle buffer and spring from another AR that I brought - had the subsonc rounds cycling nicely with no other changes. 3) The subsonics chrono’d at about 950FPS and the SuperSonics were about 1950 FPS. Guessing that these numbers will go up a bit once a suppressor is in place. Thanks again @98Z5V - appreciate you bringing your chronograph out! 4) I brought 4 X 1 gallon water jugs and a 2.5 gallon. Lining them up in a line, and lining the large one up on its long axis gave about 4 feet of water. After sighting things in, we lined up on these and put a sub-sonic round through the water jugs… yes… all of them - and out the back end - and into the dirt 50 yards down range. This was repeatable. I was a bit frustrated that we couldn’t get them to “petal out” or fracture. I’m probably going to send the video to Gorilla and ask about this. I’m guessing that I might see a different behavior in ballistic gel - or tissue - but the failure to expand in water is concerning. 5) Recoil is really pretty minimal. I’d put the super sonic rounds in the same category as a 5.56 in a lighting rifle. The sub-sonics - really, truly, minimal… 6) The big subsonics really “thump” on steel. The noise sounds “heavy” when it hits. Looking forward to shooting it suppressed. All in all - it was a very successful day. The gun functions - and there is a relatively easy way of tuning the gun so that you can run both super sonic and subsonic without much drama (the spring and buffer change is easy). The reality is that once I get a suppressor in place, I can’t see a reason to shoot supersonic loads in this gun. It’s not meant to be shot at longer ranges. In my opinion - if you are shooting this beyond 150 yards or so - you’ve probably brought the wrong gun. On the other hand, having 20 rounds of quiet, and heavy hitting 285-350gr subsonic rounds is an exciting prospect. Once sited In, it consistently nailed the ipsc silhouette at about 100 yards - and I have no concern about it performing beautifully through 150 yards. Looking forward to load development and getting some heavy subsonics to expand…

Managed to triple post the same thing… <rolleyes> Deviations from the plan above - mostly the furniture - but also found that the LaRue MBT that I thought I had - I didn’t - had put it in my brother’s gun when we both hated the trigger that came in it… Had an SSA-E waiting for another project so I used it. It’ll get pulled and replaced with something else good but a bit heavier (MBT, SSA or something similar) if this ever becomes something that is more than a range gun.

Well - it is together… not fired - but together…. I stole the lower furniture, Millet LPVO, and bipod off of a 300blk that I haven’t shot in years. They’ll do for now for getting the gun up and going. No muzzle device - because I’m suppressor shopping and have nothing else that can use an M18X1.5 threaded muzzle device - so for now it’ll get shot bare until I either hate it enough that I’m willing to waste $100 on a muzzle device that I’ll never use elsewhere - or I determine that I don’t care and can shoot it that way until the suppressor gets here. Looking forward to shooting it.

Fixed... Man - I hate not being able to go back and edit... LOL

Learning plenty on this build (candidly it's the first AR-10 and the first upper that was not from a kit). So - barrel shims on order along with the pivot pin. Should be here next week (and if not I'll source them). Not a fan of that style of hand-guard attachment. It seems kind of hoaky to have to "tweak" torque on the barrel nut to get the handguard aligned. I guess that using a rigid optic mount across the joint could serve as something like wiring a torqued bolt to ensure it can't back off... probably not good from an accuracy perspective though... 🙂

I believe so - and if I can't I can do it elsewhere and make myself a map...

Sounds good - I'm guessing that I can make it down for at least a chunk of the day. Not sure if I'll be able to stay - but we'll see - pretty sure we've got family coming over on the 1st for the Rose Bowl.

Greatness amongst us...

As to the build - I'm a moron and bought a 1-3/16" crows foot wrench instead of a 1-3/8"... I may have a line on one from a buddy today - and Amazon will deliver one tomorrow just in case (ordered). I guess it's specialty enough that I should not be surprised that Autozone, O'Reilly's, Lowes, Home Depot, were all no-go. Grainger has a few but they are like $60 so I can wait. Anyway - I just remembered that this weekend is Christmas weekend and we have a bunch of family stuff happening so I'm not likely to get it out until Tuesday. I'm taking next week off - so I'll have plenty of time. @98Z5V - not sure if you have time next week - but if you do I'd be happy to drive south if you want to go out and shoot it with me (would love to have your brain and experience out there while I figure out gassing and troubleshoot whatever needs troubleshooting).

Thanks much. I'll get one inbound and swap it out. The other one "functions" but it's a pain to have to use some sort of implement to get the pin started. Yup... all of that and more with ours. On top of all the standard USPS stupidity - living in an area where last mile delivery goes through a contract carrier and to a cluster mailbox means that anything bigger than a soda can gets flagged as something like "delivery unsuccessful" before it even leaves the post office - and the next day I'll get a notice that I can pick up the parcel at the post office - which is open from 0800 to 1630 M-F and is about 45 minutes drive from the office - so this means that paying to have USPS deliver a package to my home generally costs me whatever the shipping cost is, plus two hours of work (when I bitch to them I call it "pay" - but the reality is that I get paid the same - but my company suffers because I had to take the time away from being useful in order to pick up a package that I paid to have delivered). UPS, Fedex, Amazon, OnTrac, DHL, the Boy Scouts, and everyone else can seem to get a package to my house - but the folks who say: "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds..." can't seem to figure it out... </rant>

OK - just a little bitching and moaning... This morning I checked the tracking number for my Vltor order and it still said that it was awaiting pickup (per USPS). I was busy and didn't have time to call Vltor with a "what gives!" This afternoon I was getting ready to call them and thought I'd check one more time - to see if maybe USPS had finally picked it up... What do I see? ... So - either USPS actually picked up the package after about 0900 and miracle'd it from Tucson to north of Phoenix in less than 3 hours... (not impossible - but given that they rural carrier picks up our mail from the post office at like 0730 - I think it's unlikely) - or they can't be bothered to actually update tracking status on the package... I guess I should count my blessings that it has actually arrived (assuming that it actually has). Also picked up a cheapy pistol grip so I won't have to cannibalize one from another rifle (once I get it running I'll decide what kind of lower furniture I want on it) - and picked up a single MagPul AR10/SR25 10 round Pmag (hey - my other AR10 and 308 semi auto rifles all use straight-wall metal magazines... and I didn't bother to figure out that the Aero lower doesn't until thinking about it this morning... LOL Anyway - given this - I'm thinking that I may have pictures of an assembled rifle tonight.

OK - the generic front takedown pin is shorter than I think it should be. Went back to where I got it and got "they're all that way - even the one's that Aero Precision sells. I'm waiting for a response from Aero on this - but I like to think that if Aero is going to make the bosses "thicker" they'd also make the pin longer. I'm sure that I'll hear back from Aero shortly - but can anyone confirm / deny that the actual Aero pin is long enough to be started without jaming a round tip or tool down into that hole? It will "work" as it sits - but it bugs me and if Aero does not sell a longer one, I'm thinking that if I have to have a buddy machine a pin that's 1/8" longer than the one in there. 🙂

Yes - hoping to have it out this weekend… I’ll try to get with @JBMatt…

That’s tempting… 🙂 I picked up one of these…. https://guntecusa.com/product/dual-ar-5-56-308-cal-upper-receiver-aluminum-vise-block/ It fits up nice. I looked at those Geissele Reaction Rods - nice stuff - but I’ll buy one of those when I think I’m going to go into business building AR-10s… Until then - I’ll use the $40 vice block… of drive down and abuse your gun guy… Ordered a little jar of Nickel/Graphite anti seize (good to 2600 degrees) after reading a bunch of folks basically saying “use whatever grease you’ve got - hell - just spit on it our use axle grease” but a few suggesting the high temp nickel based stuff…. Also ordered a baggie of #4-40 X 1/8” set screws which is what Aero says plugs the hole for the detent on the rear receiver pin - they’ll be here tomorrow. Ordered a 1 3/16th crow foot wrench for the Wilson Combat barrel nut - it’ll be here tomorrow as well. Have a torque wrench, a bench vice, and some delrin vice blocks to hold the guntech block - hoping that’ll be good. Brushed, patched and then stuck a borescope down the barrel a little fearful based on some of the bitching I heard about Faxon. It looks ok to me. Hopefully the upper and everything but the buffer tube asst on the lower will be together tomorrow night. @98Z5V Any position on grease vs oil. I generally grease my older generation stuff (M1A, M1 Carbine, etc) using a decent gun specific grease - and oil my AR stuff - but stuff feels really pretty stiff. At a minimum I’ll oil the piss out of everything - but I’m tempted to grease up the BCG, upper rails, etc. to have more there for the first shoot as stuff breaks in.

OK - started the build... ran into a couple of issues... 1) All parts arrived except the buffer tube. Called Vltor - sounds like a carrier pickup issue - I should have it by Wednesday. 2) The lower parts kit has most of what I need but there are a couple of aero specific items that are missing. I'm sourcing today. 3) Need to source a vice block or barrel installation tool for the AR10 platform. If I can't bum one in the next day or two I'll order one. 4) Ordered 40 rounds of Gorilla ammo - 20 subsonic 20 supersonic Hoping to put rounds through it this weekend.

LOL…

Also... I'm a dummy and had assumed that the pins and levers in the AR10 lower were interchangeable with AR15 parts... Lesson learned. Went looking for the parts kit from Aero and they were mostly out of stock. Found a generic set of parts from S2 Armament in North Phoenix. Also grabbed a pistol length gas tube there. I think I'm complete other than the muzzle device. Parts started arriving last night and tracking tells me that I MIGHT be able to get it together this weekend. Fingers crossed.

OK - parts either in hand or in the mail include: Item Family Brand Description MPN Lower Receiver Lower Aero Precision M5 (.308) STRIPPED LOWER RECEIVER, SPECIAL EDITION: FREEDOM - ANODIZED BLACK APAR308053C Trigger Lower LaRue LaRue Tactical MBT-2S Trigger MBT-2S Buffer Lower Expo Arms Expo Arms H3 AR-15 Carbine Buffer with OD Green Bumper XP-H3B-AR15 Buffer Spring Lower Sprinco Sprinco M4 / AR-15 Red Extra Power Carbine Buffer Spring 25004 Buffer Tube Lower VLTOR VLTOR, Receiver Extension Tube, Fits M4/AR-15 Stocks, 7 Position, Black RE-A5 Upper Receiver Upper Aero Precision Aero Precision, M5 Assembled Upper, For AR10, Anodized, Black APAR308503AC BCG Upper Ballistic Advantage .308 COMPLETE BOLT CARRIER GROUP, PHOSPHATE BAPA100058 Charging Handle Upper Radian Radian Weapons, Raptor SD Ambidextrous Charging Handle, Ported, Black, 7.62MM 817093020507` Barrel Upper Faxon Faxon Duty Series Barrel LR-308 8.6 Blackout 12" Big Gunner Contour Pistol Length Gas Port 1 in 3" Twist M18x1.5 RH Thread Tapered Shoulder with Adapter Nitride 10A863P12NGQ Gas Block - Adjustable Upper Odin Works Odin Works, Adjustable Low Profile Gas Block, Fits .875" Diameter Barrels, Nitride Finish, Black GB-ADJ-.875 Handguard Upper Wilson Combat HANDGUARD, AR-10, M-LOK, 10.6", BLACK ANODIZE TR-MLOK-AR10-10 Need to find a muzzle device of some sort - and hopefully pick up a pistol length gas tube locally as I forgot that when putting together the other orders (was waiting until I chose a barrel - and that happened late).

I went looking for available commercial ammo and found some. It's not cheap - but I will be buying at least a box or two of factory loads for "break in" of the rifle. Well - not so much to actually break in the rifle - but to take load workup variables out of play for the first few rounds through the gun... Anyway - stumbled on these - which immediately led to "I've got to source a block of ballistic gel..." 🙂 350 gr Supersonic

Thanks much... Also - barrel ordered and inbound... went with this : Faxon Barrel

Edit - OK - not ordering today - I decided to try to hunt down one of the Armalite AR-10 Carbine Receiver Extension Kits. I really can't start building until I get the barrel here and it's not ordered yet so I've got a few days. If I manage to find one of those "kits" - does the included spring and heavy buffer - or is it just the tube? Got it covered...