300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 so, as some of you know, i have set out to build a "pretty yet functional" 7mm-08 deer slayer. After what is probably the longest i have ever waited in my life, the upper and lower are here! now some more problems/ questions... First, buffers? to my understanding you can use ar15 tubes but not buffers? if so then i have my tube but not a buffer(parts list below) what is a good buffer if that is the case secondly, none of the parts other than the upper lower have been ordered yet, as i would like to ensure it all fits before swiping the old credit card on them, but what else do i need to find besides what is below, keep in mind i already have an optic and dont plan on running iron sights upper/lower http://f-1firearms.com/bdr-10-3g-matched-receiver-set/ furniture https://www.ghostrifles.com/products/skeletonized-grip-for-ar-15?variant=40522215939 https://www.ghostrifles.com/products/skeletonizedstocks?variant=40234197955 buffer tube https://www.ghostrifles.com/collections/accessories/products/rifle-buffer-tube?variant=38956911235 LPK https://aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-lower-parts-kit-minus-fcg.html BCG https://www.armorally.com/shop/toolcraft-6-5-creedmoor-double-ejector-bcg/ other parts dump https://www.wingtactical.com/firearm-parts/ar-10-lr-308/radian-raptor-ar-10-ambidextrous-charging-handle/ https://shopwilsoncombat.com/mobile/Match-Grade-Barrel-7mm-08-Remington-Recon-Tactical-16-1-9-Twist-Stainless/productinfo/TR-708RCIG16RT9/ https://geissele.com/super-dynamic-enhanced-trigger.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, 300grPills said: First, buffers? to my understanding you can use ar15 tubes but not buffers? if so then i have my tube but not a buffer(parts list below) what is a good buffer if that is the case I wouldn't even mess around, in your shoes, and just do a (real) Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System, complete. It's gonna be a tough enough build - cut out the recoil system headaches, and just use what works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 are the armalite systems and dpms systems interchangeable though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 There's a shiitload - literally - of recoil system information here, on this site. I've been adding to it recently, in a great amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, 300grPills said: are the armalite systems and dpms systems interchangeable though? The recoil systems are completely independent of the rifle type, and the recoil system doesn't care what it has to run. The Armalite system will work exceptionally well on either a DPMS-based system, or an Armalite system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 why does it gotta be like this lol... like this one https://aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-carbine-buffer-kit.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) Don't do it. The receiver extension is too long internally, and your BCG body will strike the ears on your lower receiver - I'm sure that's something you don't want, on those receivers. The buffer is H1-weighted - not enough a$s to control the mass. That buffer weight doesn't have enough a$s to control the mass of a 308 BCG. You need H3 weight, minimum. We can debate this all night long. I have 3 Aero Precision large-frames, one Matrix, and one DPMS. The DPMS is a rifle recoil system. The others are ALL collapsible stock systems, running the Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System. I'm experimenting with the 4th Aero set right now, on a different recoil system. I've been through the pain here to risk such experimentation, and I'm guessing and gauging what will work. I'm not sure if that's something you want to do with your receiver set. I learned my lesson trying to use that Aero kit you linked. Just go look up all the problems in the PSA large-frame recoil system, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about, on a DPMS_based large-frame recoil system. It's a vendor shiit-show, routinely, and none of them know what they're doing. You can hear what I'm saying, and do what you want. You can listen to what I'm saying, and save yourself the headaches. It's up to you. Edited July 24, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 32 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: The buffer is H1-weighted - not enough a$s to control the mass. That buffer weight doesn't have enough a$s to control the mass of a 308 BCG. You need H3 weight, minimum. so a "rifle" buffer and not a "carbine" buffer? collapsible is not a need or really even a want so idk what part that plays, i have just never built on this platform and am trying to cover my bases.... being as ive seen no fewer than about 3 build from yourself, i would tend to believe you on the matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, 300grPills said: First, buffers? to my understanding you can use ar15 tubes but not buffers? if so then i have my tube but not a buffer(parts list below) what is a good buffer if that is the case I read this... 31 minutes ago, 300grPills said: so a "rifle" buffer and not a "carbine" buffer? collapsible is not a need or really even a want so idk what part that plays, i have just never built on this platform and am trying to cover my bases.... being as ive seen no fewer than about 3 build from yourself, i would tend to believe you on the matter So I don't know what you're intending. You going fixed stock? Or do you want a collapsible stock setup? You can do either, but it's whatever you want. Things get extremely streamlined if you're doing a fixed stock, and not a collapsible stock. You linked this in your first post, above: https://www.ghostrifles.com/products/skeletonizedstocks?variant=40234197955 In that item description, it specifically states that it "Fits: Mil=Spec Buffer Tube." That would be a carbine receiver extension. Rifle receiver extension don't have a "mil-spec vs.commercial" size to them. Rifle receiver extensions are all the same, no matter what... Edited July 24, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 The stock I'm looking at is fixed but by set screws on a adjustable buffer if that makes sense... so yes it is "fixed" but it's not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Read what I edited in my last post. This is getting painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Correct, but Im trying to figure out where you are getting the h3 weight rating at on buffers.... all I'm seeing is "carbine" "rifle" "pistol" ect.... a Google search about weight ratings shows that apparently everyone but me knows about them, but not a lot of detail about which systems are rated at what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Read what I edited in my last post. This is getting painful. I agree.... this is how the whole build has been for me lol.... I'm from the bolt gun world, where recoil is just an annoyance, not a tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Read all the buffer-type posts in this section: https://forum.308ar.com/forum/48-308ar-parts/ Read this: read this: Read this one close - it contains a link to another thread on this stuff - hit that other link in there, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, 300grPills said: Correct, but Im trying to figure out where you are getting the h3 weight rating at on buffers.... Eugene Stoner decided that the AR-10 recoil operating system did best at 5.4z buffer weight, with his spring design. I didn't come up with it - the inventor of this platform did. Read what I linked. You need to grasp an understanding of this platform if you're going to second-guess all the information that's given to you. If you want to learn about it - then learn about it. Go learn. Don't expect everyone to spoon-feed you on it. tricky question? No problem. Lack of understanding on the platform - learn the hard way, just like we all did, or listen to the information given you, by the ones that learned the hard way. It's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Eugene Stoner decided that the AR-10 recoil operating system did best at 5.4z buffer weight, with his spring design. I didn't come up with it - the inventor of this platform did. Read what I linked. You need to grasp an understanding of this platform if you're going to second-guess all the information that's given to you. If you want to learn about it - then learn about it. Go learn. Don't expect everyone to spoon-feed you on it. tricky question? No problem. Lack of understanding on the platform - learn the hard way, just like we all did, or listen to the information given you, by the ones that learned the hard way. It's up to you. reading away as we speak, thank you btw, but nowhere did i ask to be spoon fed poop... asked a question, received your answer, didn't second guess any of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) We're only here to help, man. You can take the information, and use the information. You have to determine what you're gonna do, because we're not building it. I'll tell you this right now - I read your first post, way up there. You need to run the Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System, complete. Period. The answers to that decision are in the linked posts I gave you - that are all over this board. Just search that term, with quotes. "Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System" You'll feel like you're trying to take a drink from a firehose. The info is all over this site. You gotta look for it, and it's not hard to find. I'm not trying to be a complete a$s, but this info has been covered indepth, repeatedly, over and over, and over. It seems that you're not even looking for it, in the least. When I see something like this from you: I'm shocked from seeing the questions that I am, from you. My mistake. I assumed that the AR platform would be child's play for you, based on the complicated rifle that you built. That's not an insult, in the least -that's me thinking that you had more experience than I anticipated. You need to look at both sides here... Edited July 24, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: We're only here to help, man. You can take the information, and use the information. You have to determine what you're gonna do, because we're not building it. I'll tell you this right now - I read your first post, way up there. You need to run the Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System, complete. Period. The answers to that decision are in the linked posts I gave you - that are all over this board. Just search that term, with quotes. "Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System" You'll feel like you're trying to take a drink from a firehose. The info is all over this site. You gotta look for it, and it's not hard to find. I'm not trying to be a complete a$s, but this info has been covered indepth, repeatedly, over and over, and over. It seems that you're not even looking for it, in the least. When I see something like this from you: I'm shocked from seeing the questions that I am, from you. My mistake. I assumed that the AR platform would be child's play for you, based on the complicated rifle that you built. That's not an insult, in the least -that's me thinking that you had more experience than I anticipated. You need to look at both sides here... hardly anything complicated about running a reamer into a 338 barrel and screwing it onto a rem 700 action. the several bolt guns ive built are simple and based on fairly common actions that i am familiar with, as said i have literally 0 experience with the platform. i mean ive fired a few ARs but that is where it ends, ive never built, worked on, loaded for, or tuned anything in this platform. literally the difference between an airplane mechanic and a top fuel mechanic... fall under the same broad categories but entirely different in practice. that and its 2 am and i worked 12 hours yesterday lol, should find my way to a bed shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) Not trying to further complicate things here, but... Is the tube that comes with the Armalite Receiver Extension Kit mil-spec or commercial-spec? It's difficult to tell from the picture on Armalite's website. https://www.armalite.com/product/ar10rekit01-6-position-receiver-extension-kit/ @300grPills if it's a mil-spec tube, buy it and be done with it. At $55, you won't find a better deal on a complete, known-to-run package. Edited July 24, 2018 by COBrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 You’re making a 7mm-08 for your first rifle... I too assumed you had built at least a half dozen or so rifles already, in common calibers. There’s probably only 100 or so AR’s, in the whole world, chambered in 7mm-08. Figuring the gas system and buffer combo will be an expensive trial and error process. Like 98 said. Stick to the basic Armalite AR10 Carbine Buffer System and then work from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, COBrien said: Not trying to further complicate things here, but... Is the tube that comes with the Armalite Receiver Extension Kit mil-spec or commercial-spec? It's difficult to tell from the picture on Armalite's website. https://www.armalite.com/product/ar10rekit01-6-position-receiver-extension-kit/ @300grPills if it's a mil-spec tube, buy it and be done with it. At $55, you won't find a better deal on a complete, known-to-run package. They don't even make it as a commercial sized extension. mil-spec diameter only (1.14" O.D.). @300grPills, sorry I sounded short in the conversation. It's a tough enough aspect to build what you're building, and make it run perfect right out of the box. The gas port diameter is going to be critical, and everything might come down to that. In order to shortcut the whole "operational, or problems?" thing that might come up - which is a real possibility - you'll need to stick to the basics, as a foundation of the build. Nothing fancy, nothing gimmicky, nothing complicated. Basic functional parts. No weird recoil systems, no hydraulic buffers, no weird or fancy recoil springs, no "silent-captured" anything. No adjustable gasblocks or "switchblocks..." Just a regular, standard basic gasblock. Just basic parts. As far as the recoil system goes - a rifle buffer weighs 5.4 oz. That's what the basic system needs to function. The H3 buffer is 5.4 oz. Direct swap, equivalent performance and operation. Not less, not more - for a basic system. Sometimes lighter, or heavier, down the road, depending on how you "tune" it. The DPMS-based large-frame recoil systems are a complete mess, because there are too many many facturers that just make whatever they want. There is no pattern or set of prints to follow; no standard. I would bet that there are hundreds of manufacturers, literally, in this country that have their own take on it, and they do what they want. My recommendation for the Armalite system is simple - only one company makes it, and they make it the exact same, everytime. It's proven, there's no guesswork, and it's the resulting product from the original design, and the original designer, of the platform. Get the rifle fully functional, and you can switch out some of those basic parts later, for the complicated high-speed parts, one part at a time, until it's "tuned" to your liking. That way, when the rifle ceases to function, or performs poorly, you'll know exactly what caused it, instead of trying to figure out this big fancy, complicated mess of an expensive rifle... Example - build it with a standard, plain gasblock first, and the AR-10 Carbine Recoil System. When you take it out the first time, with good ammo, and it won't cycle - you might have gas port sizing problems... Or, you take it out the first time, and it functions wonderfully - the gas port size is good! Now, you put on that fancy adjustable gas block, and the gun won't even cycle with the gas block in the "wide-open" position... The issue is that fancy gas block, then... Don't complicate shiit with complicated shiit... We are here to help, even if it sounded like I wasn't here to help... That's not the case, man... Edited July 24, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 46 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: They don't even make it as a commercial sized extension. mil-spec diameter only (1.14" O.D.). Gotcha. I usually look at the threads, and the top of the threads look like commercial-spec, while the bottom of the threads look like mil-spec. Quick and dirty, I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) Mil-spec is rolled threads, 1.14" OD. Commercial is thicker at 1.17", because they cut the threads. Edited July 24, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300grPills Posted July 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 hours ago, 98Z5V said: They don't even make it as a commercial sized extension. mil-spec diameter only (1.14" O.D.). @300grPills, sorry I sounded short in the conversation. It's a tough enough aspect to build what you're building, and make it run perfect right out of the box. The gas port diameter is going to be critical, and everything might come down to that. In order to shortcut the whole "operational, or problems?" thing that might come up - which is a real possibility - you'll need to stick to the basics, as a foundation of the build. Nothing fancy, nothing gimmicky, nothing complicated. Basic functional parts. No weird recoil systems, no hydraulic buffers, no weird or fancy recoil springs, no "silent-captured" anything. No adjustable gasblocks or "switchblocks..." Just a regular, standard basic gasblock. Just basic parts. As far as the recoil system goes - a rifle buffer weighs 5.4 oz. That's what the basic system needs to function. The H3 buffer is 5.4 oz. Direct swap, equivalent performance and operation. Not less, not more - for a basic system. Sometimes lighter, or heavier, down the road, depending on how you "tune" it. The DPMS-based large-frame recoil systems are a complete mess, because there are too many many facturers that just make whatever they want. There is no pattern or set of prints to follow; no standard. I would bet that there are hundreds of manufacturers, literally, in this country that have their own take on it, and they do what they want. My recommendation for the Armalite system is simple - only one company makes it, and they make it the exact same, everytime. It's proven, there's no guesswork, and it's the resulting product from the original design, and the original designer, of the platform. Get the rifle fully functional, and you can switch out some of those basic parts later, for the complicated high-speed parts, one part at a time, until it's "tuned" to your liking. That way, when the rifle ceases to function, or performs poorly, you'll know exactly what caused it, instead of trying to figure out this big fancy, complicated mess of an expensive rifle... Example - build it with a standard, plain gasblock first, and the AR-10 Carbine Recoil System. When you take it out the first time, with good ammo, and it won't cycle - you might have gas port sizing problems... Or, you take it out the first time, and it functions wonderfully - the gas port size is good! Now, you put on that fancy adjustable gas block, and the gun won't even cycle with the gas block in the "wide-open" position... The issue is that fancy gas block, then... Don't complicate shiit with complicated shiit... We are here to help, even if it sounded like I wasn't here to help... That's not the case, man... It's a OK man, I was a little short (and a lot tired) last night and it was probably a bad time to be asking questions.... as far as rifles I have built... there are 3, all bolt guns, and all to varying degrees of "built", in 338 edge, 6mm ai, and 7mm08. So I'm not gonna lie, the whole gas system scares me a bit... also while referring to armalite parts, I thought you were referring to armalite patterned parts, not the actual manufacturer Side note your thread links do have some very useful info, thanks for linking them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, 300grPills said: So I'm not gonna lie, the whole gas system scares me a bit... Seriously, don't worry about that, not in the least. There's nothing that can happen with the function of that gas gun that we can't figure out, collectively. No kidding. Build that beast, let us know what's going on (if anything goes on), and it can be figured out. It's nothing but a machine, really, and it can't out-think us. We can beat it. You run that Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System, and knowing the Wilson Combat match barrels - it's gonna be right... And you should have a functioning rifle, right off the bat. Might not be exactly how you want it to "feel" - and that's what "tuning" is for - but I'll bet my money it doesn't fail you in any way. It'll run. I have a Wilson Combat .338 Federal 16" match barrel - holy shiit is that thing the duck's nuts, right there. I'm building a .260 Remington now, and it's getting the Wilson Combat match barrel for it... Go with great parts when you're building weird shiit. That increases the chances that it'll run like it's supposed to... Edited July 25, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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