Wilson Combat Barrel Woes/Muzzle Devices: Need Advice

[Dewey Mack]

A couple years ago, I built 2x matching LR-308s; one for myself and one for my father as a family/legacy/hand-me-down whitetail hunting rifle pair. I had gone through 4 different Faxon barrels (Stainless Match and 4150) that wouldn't group at all (5-10 MOA), and then I switched to the Wilson Combat 18" Tactical Hunter. These barrels were starting to group, so I pressed on; I'm not going to discuss the incorrect gas tube length/gas port distance on these barrels. I was able to get the barrels cycling fine for me...

However, I've been chasing my tail the last couple of years trying to make a hunting handload for my father and myself that will consistently group. POIs would sometimes shift significantly mid-string, possibly pointing towards heat issues. However, I do most of my testing with a barrel chamber cooler. Grouping was never acceptable to my standards (3-shot consistent 1 MOA including cold bore). At first I thought it was my scope, so I sent it back to Primary Arms, who sent it back to me after testing stating the scope was fine. I have spent countless hours reloading and purchasing nearly every off-the-shelf 308 ammo for testing with zero consistent results. I even tried different bolts (cheap 308 bolt, HP Toolcraft, and RCA) with no change in results. Yes, I checked headspace before installing the barrels. I even re-installed them to confirm barrel nut torque and trued the uppers.

When I zeroed my scope for 168 grain ammo and then switch to 150 grain, my POI shifted 4.5 inches down and slightly right; when I switched to my 125 grain handloads, the POI is 8 inches down! I've never seen a shift this drastic with various bullet weights. (I do all my test without a suppressor). I know how to shoot with my stable setup, The Rock front rest and Protektor 13B rear bag; nothing on the handguard to catch the front bag. I shot 0.22moa 3-shot (100yd) with my handloads tuned for my father's cheap T/C Venture 223 yesterday, which is fairly normal.

Then it hit me: I had a Rearden Atlas DPB installed by East Valley Tactical almost immediately after building the rifle to use with my suppressor. I figured maybe the harmonics were off or it was installed too tightly. So I removed the DPB and retested with a bare muzzle. The results were....shocking to say the least.  My 168 grain and 125 grain handloads were grouping sub-MOA, the factory/bulk 150 grain ammo not too shabby, and ALL POIs were 1-2 inches at 1:30.  The barrel didn't care what bullet was going downrange.

So then I installed a KVP Linear Comp at exactly 25 ft-lbs torque with a proper crush washer, as this was the setup my father is using. The 168 Black AMAX group opened up again and shifted further away, while the 150 grain shifted down. Not what I wanted to see, and I didn't waste any other ammo testing with the KVP comp.

So I'm at a crossroads after this 2-year journey. Do I test more with just a thread protector to see if that affects the groups and call it a day, sacrificing the benefit of having a threaded barrel?  Or do I contact WC for a barrel replacement since I can't use the threads on these barrels with consistent results (as if WC cares about that with their 1.5moa tolerance)? I'm not taking it hunting with bare threads. Or do I just go to a different brand? My 22" Ballistic Advantage heavy fluted 6.5CM "blem" just grouped 5-8 shot sub-MOA groups last week with 130 hunting and 142 match factory ammo. Easy double-tap 700yd plate before first ring. I have to try to mess up with that rifle--it stacks all ammo I feed it so far; it's absolutely fantastic.

Thoughts? Anyone else using this barrel with good results? Black Friday deals are coming up as well.....

EDIT: I didn't touch the scope during any of this testing. I wanted actual, measurable results.

Edited November 5 by Dewey Mack
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[98Z5V]

It's the muzzle device.  I've tested guns out here in the desert, that don't group for shiit.  REMOVE the muzzle device, and suddenly, the gun shoots.

I had someone give me the muzzle device we took off, for finding the problem.  I threw it in the trashcan when I got home.

What's the barrel twist rate on the WC barrels you're shooting?  That was left out, above, and makes a difference, overall.

From what you've stated, so far, you get different results from different muzzle devices.  That's what I'm picking up here...  

Your own statements, and results:

5 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

Then it hit me: I had a Rearden Atlas DPB installed by East Valley Tactical almost immediately after building the rifle to use with my suppressor. I figured maybe the harmonics were off or it was installed too tightly. So I removed the DPB and retested with a bare muzzle. The results were....shocking to say the least.  My 168 grain and 125 grain handloads were grouping sub-MOA, the factory/bulk 150 grain ammo not too shabby, and ALL POIs were 1-2 inches at 1:30.  The barrel didn't care what bullet was going downrange.

 

5 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

So then I installed a KVP Linear Comp at exactly 25 ft-lbs torque with a proper crush washer, as this was the setup my father is using. The 168 Black AMAX group opened up again and shifted further away, while the 150 grain shifted down. Not what I wanted to see, and I didn't waste any other ammo testing with the KVP comp.

 

5 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

So I'm at a crossroads after this 2-year journey. Do I test more with just a thread protector to see if that affects the groups and call it a day, sacrificing the benefit of having a threaded barrel? 

Yes.  It will prove the point that it was the muzzle device.  

5 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

Or do I contact WC for a barrel replacement since I can't use the threads on these barrels with consistent results (as if WC cares about that with their 1.5moa tolerance)?

That's not the problem - it grouped, bare barrel. It's not the WC barrel, obviously, since it grouped.  The only two muzzle devices you've tried resulted in shiit accuracy, and you shot it bare and it worked...  That tells everything, right there...   

 

[shooterrex]

Doesn't mean it won't shoot well with a different muzzle device.

[Dewey Mack]

It is 11.25 twist.

I know it was the muzzle device, but I'm weighing the $$$ decision of buying multiple muzzle devices vs buying a better barrel that doesn't care if it has a muzzle device on it. I intended to use the barrel suppressed, but it wasn't grouping with my Enticer-TI either (mounted on the Rearden DPB). Have you seen accuracy change with specific brand suppressor adapters? I've used Rearden Atlas adapters and brakes on my small-frame platforms with no noticeable shift in accuracy.

Do you have a barrel brand that typically works well with any muzzle device that you lean towards?

For those of you that handload, when you find a nice node without any MD installed, have you seen that node completely shift out of the sweet spot after installing a MD? This close to hunting season, I'm tempted to run my test ladders without any device, find the sweet spots, then have my father test them in his setup.

[98Z5V]

8 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

Do you have a barrel brand that typically works well with any muzzle device that you lean towards?

I almost only shoot BA barrels or WC barrels.  The WC barrels I have are in 260 Rem (x2), .243 Win, 7mm-08, .338 Fed, and .358 Win. They shoot.  My BA barrels are .223 Wylde or .308 Win.  They almost always use VG6 muzzle devices.  I try to never deviate from that, unless it's a dedicated brake for a certain gun, then it's a Witt Machine brake.  I haven't had the issues you're having, under that specific build criteria of mine.

 

8 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

For those of you that handload, when you find a nice node without any MD installed,

I never, ever do that.  It's like shooting an incomplete gun.  I develop my hand loads on a finished gun, muzzle device properly installed.  If it has a threaded barrel, then it gets shot, first time, with a proper muzzle device installed.

My $0.02. 

[Dewey Mack]

Yeah, that's what I normally do as well, ladders with complete builds.

How do you like the WC 338fed? I still have 8 boxes of ammo from an old elk rifle build (no longer in commission). What length barrel you like for that? That may be my next build....

Also, I have used a brake from https://jcb-solutions.com/ Trident Muzzle Brakes. They are made locally, affordable, and also sell on eBay or through website. One man operation but so far I'm satisfied. SD Tactical sells affordable titanium adapters I'm trying out as well...

Thanks for the $0.02!

[98Z5V]

14 hours ago, Dewey Mack said:

How do you like the WC 338fed? I still have 8 boxes of ammo from an old elk rifle build (no longer in commission). What length barrel you like for that?

It's amazing.  It's the 16" barrel, didn't have to do any work to the barrel at all.  I run it with 225gr Hornady SST handloads, and the damn thing shoots softer than my 18" .208 Win gas gun that's built almost identical to it.  It's a great gas gun cartridge.