Go to powder W/ 168, 173/175

[OhThreeOhTwo]

Title saye it all, just interested in finding out what is your favorite powder to use with the 168 & 175 BTHP as well as the 173  M118 FMJBT.

[N Jensen]

I would use Varget, for 168, 175 MK, a little slower than 4895 for the heavier 175. 43g with a 175 was right at 2600 -2610 with WW case and Fed 210.

 

As for the 173g M118 bullet I would sell them at a gun show, unless you just got to shoot them for some reason, they are not the great bullet one thinks. In the late 1980's LC stop the practice of overhauling the machinery to produce the white box NM ammo for Camp Perry. From that point on the white box NM ammo was history and brown box M118 sucked. Everyone would get their M118 and pull the bullet and stick a 168MK on top and then it shot good. The 173 bullet in the M118 ammo sucked so bad that M852 ammo was produced (LC case with a 168MK instead of the 173) to keep the military teams happy and produce good scores at HP matches. Still the 173g bullet became even worse, so the military lawyers came up with the decision that a hollow point bullet that will not expand on impact was within the LOA or Geneva Convention rules. Then the M118LR was born, a 175 MK designed to stay supersonic at 1000yds and have the same trajectory as the 173g bullet and saved all the sniper scopes from being replaced. Best of all the accuracy was back. All this happened because the employees and management at the LC plant didn't give a crap about producing good bullets and ammo for the sniper out there. 

[OhThreeOhTwo]

 NJ,

Thanks for the insite on the 173's, I'll load some and test in both an M1A & an AR-10. If they don't show me much, they might become "sweetener" added to selling the M1A.

[N Jensen]

Sell your M1A? Once you have one, why sell it? I have a doubled lugged one in a McMillan service rifle stock. Shoots great. Is your M1A glass bedded and all tricks done to the rifle? It's hard to beat a M1A that is built correctly. But I do admit that a 308 AR will shoot darn good without any work at all. For the M1A, not many people know how to glass bed them correctly and do all the other steps to make it shoot good. I have done bunches of them, double, single lug or std receiver. All of them shoot good when done properly.

[OhThreeOhTwo]

 My M1A is a SA "loaded" with the Syn. stock,  and has had nothing done to it other that adding a scope.

 My biggest dislike is the 3 + Lb. 2nd stage trigger pull. My AR-10  has a sweet trigger.Since all of my rifle shooting is off a bench that M1A trigger is a bit anoying, espically after shooting my swap Bbl. Savage with it's 9 oz. trigger.

Our club just added a 300 yd. range so that will tell if it goes or stays

[Rsquared]

Me personally, I'd never get rid of an M1A (M14). But, with that being said, I've never gotten rid of anything. I don't ever seem to sell......I just seem to add to the collection.

 

Just me.

[N Jensen]

Yep, a loaded M1A in a plastic stock ant going to shoot worth crap compared to an out of the box AR 308. How much do you want for it? I don't need the scope or mount, I have been thinking of building a M1A with a McMillan top of the line sniper stock, Then Glass bed and do everything else to it. The problem making it worth while to do is getting the rifle at a good price.

 

During the years I shot HP with the M1A from 1982 to 1998 or so I must have shot about 80,000 rounds down range. I now shoot the big AR in 308, 6.5, and 6mm match rifles in HP matches since about 2004 or so. Can't beat the accuracy with little work needed to get there. Big difference  in guns, but I still have my M1A as the SHF gun with plenty of 852 and M118LR on hand.

[Jgun]

I don't wish to take this thread further off topic, but,  NJ, could you give any info on your double lugged M1A? Did you buy it as a double lugged gun? Is it a Springfield receiver? Do you know who did the work? My LRB receiver is rear lugged (I bought it that way from LRB) and I have come to realize that the lugged receivers limit the options of what stocks you can use. Most of the chassis stocks will not take a rear lugged receiver, and from what I've seen, it appears as though a double lugged receiver needs to be bedded into a stock that is milled out specifically for it (McMillian?) so that once you go that route you are stuck with a barreled action that can only be used in that specific stock. Have you ever done any research into the advantages of the front lug? I've read that they don't improve accuracy over that of a properly bedded rear lugged gun, but that the additional attachment point  extends the length of time before the gun will require rebedding, any experience to share?

[N Jensen]

The Marine shooting team were responsible for the double lug M-14/M1A rifle. Only a Marine armorer back in the 1980's could tell you how they came up with the idea. The Army team never went with the double lug, but only the single lug as far as I know. Springfield came out with a rear lug receiver early 90's I think, maybe in 1993 or 1994. A lot of M1A guys building rifles had no problem welding a lug to the rear, not many would weld under the area where the barrel screws on for good reason. Not many people have the skill to want to weld under the receiver and put there name to it. I believe that a few companies have sold double lug receivers, they were high dollar items.

 

Adding a front and rear lug to a receiver can be done and they are a few still around that can do it. One guy came up with a smarter way and no welding was to make the lug to slip between the barrel shoulder and the front of the receiver kind of like a recoil lug on a Rem 700. Very easy to do if one is confident installing a M1A barrel in the first place. He is now known for Ar-15 rifles out of AZ area, Had some books with his name on the cover as well. Just can't think of his name right now.  

 

Bedding the double lug receiver can be done in either a wood stock or McMillan stock. Bedding a double lug gun is one of the hardest guns I ever did. I put a lot of thought into before I started to grind away on a 400 dollar McMillan stock. But it turned out great. I have done only two double lug guns out of all of them.

 

Like I said before the Army team never did go the double lug and their guns shot just as good as the Marine's rifles and with only a single lug. A single screw added to a rear lug gun would help a lot. It removes the trigger group from the sole purpose of keeping the gun in the stock. Adding a screw in the rear lug and have the trigger lock down tight will shoot just as good as a double lug. The bedding job has to be dang good, not many people know how to do them anymore. Then installing the gas system correct helps a lot as well. To tight and it bends the barrel, gun shoots high about 10 to 15 min worth, you can't even get a 100yd zero if done wrong.

 

A lot of info. If you want photos of a double lug and a good bedding job, I can send them to you. Email me at LR30338@cox.net . Neil