constructor - Banned

BCM doesn't make 410 barrels, they are made for BCM by Kreiger's Criterion division. They are apx 38-42 Rockwell. When SS is heat treated it loses it's corrosion resistance, it is not a good material when it needs to be 58 Rockwell. 8620 is standard material for AR10 carriers AND bolts. AR15 bolts are Carp 158.

No need, this isn't my kind of forum so I wasn't planning on hanging out here just bored.

We have a really good tech forum (68forums) that I have been a part of since 06, people go there to learn because they know it's good info. There are enough guys there that really know their stuff to keep out the BS before it takes hold. People that have a "moderator" title have some influence because of the title. Guys come here and read "Melonite is a coating" because a guy with a "moderator" title says so are being mislead. There have been at least 2 links here that detail the process and it is very clear it is a heat treat and has been used for 5 years I know of, it's not too new but your moderator posts this- From the sight about the process, "During these processes, nitrogen, carbon, and small amounts of oxygen are diffused into the surface of the steel, creating an epsilon iron nitride layer (e - FexN)." Sure sounds like a coating . This is new stuff to me & most , I'm sure .I'm not trying to cut it down or any thing like that ,just trying see what its about. It sounds good ,but too new yet & not enough imput from years of testing on barrels . It is the same as the my first post , where is a comparison of different barrels & now types ? Its still a " my barrel is better than yours " comparison ,sorry but it fits. Before your moderators start posting incorrect info they may want to read and fully understand things. Sorry but it fits. No one I know is going to buy 40-50 barrels and spend thousands of dollars on ammo testing so they can put the info on the internet. you may get this barrel is better than that barrel from a very few that have actually tested barrels side by side meaning the same ammo at the same time but very very few even do that. Armalite uses a lot of Wilson Arms(not Wilson Combat) barrels, they are lapped but not considered a real match barrel like a Krieger, Hart, Lilja, Broughton or Bartlein. Some Fulton Armory barrels are made by Krieger's Criterion division, they are button rifled not cut rifled, good barrels also but not considered to be real match barrels. Wilson Combat uses ER Shaw barrels and calls them match grade, far from it but they shoot good for a production barrel. DPMS barrel blanks are made by Montana barrels,DPMS says they finish them, they are lapped but not a match barrel. Now my opinion- does any of that mean anything at all? No Lock the cheapest barrel in a shooting machine and shoot it...it will outshoot 90% of all humans with the best barrel. A $500 Krieger barrel will only shoot as well as the trigger puller. On the other hand I know where a team of 5 Navy guys are that can take what is thought my many to be the worst quality barrel made and shoot 3/8" groups at 100 yds with factory ammo. It's not the barrel it's the driver. Buy what ever you want and learn how to shoot it, you'll be better off than the guy that is always looking over the fence at the greener grass. You're right, I can be an ass.

The 18" barrel will be VERY lightweight and mid gas. It will not be .750 in front of the gas block area.

A coating is something that is applied to the surface of a barrel. Changing the structure of the steel and hardening it from 42 rockwell to almost 70 rockwell is not a coating. Carburization is a case hardening process, You should read carefully about the process because at the moment you don't sound like you have a clue. "Carburizing or carburising (chiefly British English) is a heat treatment process in which iron or steel absorbs carbon liberated when the metal is heated in the presence of a carbon bearing material, such as charcoal or carbon monoxide, with the intent of making the metal harder. Depending on the amount of time and temperature, the affected area can vary in carbon content. Longer carburizing times and higher temperatures lead to greater carbon diffusion into the part as well as increased depth of carbon diffusion. When the iron or steel is cooled rapidly by quenching, the higher carbon content on the outer surface becomes hard via the transformation from austenite to martensite, while the core remains soft and tough as a ferritic and/or pearlite microstructure.[1]" "Nitriding is a heat treating process that diffuses nitrogen into the surface of a metal to create a case hardened surface. It is predominantly used on steel, but also titanium, aluminum and molybdenum." "Melonite™ and Melonite QPQ™ are thermochemical processes intended for the case hardening of iron based metals. These processes are categorized as molten salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing. During these processes, nitrogen, carbon, and small amounts of oxygen are diffused into the surface of the steel, creating an epsilon iron nitride layer (e - FexN)." Notice all 3 are similar, some use gas and some use liquid in the process to achieve similar results. edit-sp

I would say yes to the above, keep it a place where people can come to learn and not turn into a rompus rm like arfcom and people will keep coming back. <thumbsup>

Brakes and comps are easy, could do a different design every day and probably already have one that will reduce muzzle rise and recoil 50% . Have one that eliminates 100% of muzzle rise.

You know how it is trying to get barrels this time of year... hunting season...Thanksgiving...Christmas...SHOT show. Really I hope to see them in Feb. if they finish the 11 twist 5R button quick enough. The first batch will be 18" lightweight Melonite treated just because there are plenty of everything else. The biggest complaint I hear is about the weight of the 308s.

Agree some poorly designed brakes do nothing but look good and that is all some think about. I don't think much of linear brakes/comps. Others do what they are designed to do and choosing them depends on what you want from them. Do you want to eliminate muzzle rise? reduce recoil? Reduce recoil 50%, reduce muzzle rise 50% and reduce flash as well? Or roll around in the dirt while shooting and not blow dust? ;D

Melonite is not a coating it is a heat treat. I've had about 8000 of them done in the last 3 years as of Oct. I spec the surface at 68 R .010 deep. that means the .004" tall lands are 68 rockwell all the way through. The military tests have shown Melonite treated barrels to last apx 30% longer than chrome lined. They are the only barrels to ever pass the 36hr salt spray test. 5 Navy guys in San Diego have been getting 3/8" groups at 100 yds with these plain production 4150 CMV Melonite treated barrels using factory Hornady 110gr HPBTs...6.8 We have some 556s that will shoot 24gr Re15 behind 69gr SMKs into 1/2" at 100 so yes I believe they are better than chrome lined barrels for the same cost.

Melonite is not a blue, it is a heat treat process that turns the surface black and offer a corrosion resistant finish.

Dan Lilja has an article on Cryo. Proved it only removes 7% of stress...he says it's not worth it and a gimmick.

The SJC is a full blown comp brake and known to be one of the best around. The large top ports on it and a few others do a lot to prevent muzzle rise where brakes with big side ports and little or no top ports do not do much to prevent muzzle rise. Brakes with big side ports are loud to say the least. Brakes should be designed so the bullet passes through a wall no further forward from the crown than the bullet body is long so the high pressure gases can not get around the sides of the bullet and disrupt flight. That is why the best brakes bore is only .040-.060 larger than the bullet dia.

Not a longer service life for sure. Most shooters can't shoot to the full capability of a cheap barrel let alone a real match barrel. Lock one in a machine to see what they are really capable of.

416R stainless barrels will wear out much faster than 410 stainless or CMV, Melonite treated CMV barrels are said to last 30% longer than a chromelined barrel.

Thanks...you know we are running at max capacity now I just can't do the AR12 until we move and enlarge the shop even if the bolts, carriers, extensions and material to make the receivers are stacked on pallets. We've landed a few LE/DEA contracts that ate up a couple hundred 6.8 barrels in 3 weeks so now we're waiting for more barrels and machining bolts. For now all I can do is make some light 308 barrels and maybe some 260s.

Armalite is MUCH better quality IMO I just wished they would make a lower that would handle the Pmag or DPMS style mag. I think they would sell a ton more rifles if the offered that as an optional lower...Tim? eta-IMO

Nothing, I have some barrels coming but don't really want to start building complete uppers or rifles because there are too many different configurations to keep in stock. DPMS's lightest 18" barrel is 2lbs 10oz. Ours will be lighter.

There are barrels that came from the Chiliean govt being sold on $1800 high end ARs, many manufacturers using foreign parts on ARs, carriers that aren't heat treated...it gets deep.

So no one needs to do anything different or offer any new products...got it

A 9.5 twist is on the edge for stabilizing a 100gr bullet especially if it is a long 100gr. The 95gr SMK does not shoot well in a 10 twist. Most use a 8 twist for shooting longer 243 bullets.

Weight? Different parts from every manufacturer? Lack of parts? What else?