Cliff R

It's a freaking BLAST! Hope I'm not boring folks to death with this chit, but lobbing el-cheapo Remington Thunderbolt 22 rounds from a $200 10-22 rifle with a "low" end Tasco 4-12 power scope on it out to 200 yards is a lot more fun than wasting them with my AR-15 set up for hog hunting. The first couple of days was low percentage past about 100 yards or so, now that I've figured out the hold-over I'm 5 for 5 the last couple of days out to 200 yards. Also pretty cool is that it's quiet, and you can see the round hit (or miss) in the scope when you touch one off. I'd also add that "working" the trigger was another BIG improvement for this rifle. Out of the box the trigger was horrible, heavy with too much "creep" for my liking.......

Here's a pic of my DPMS 308. I swapped on the A2 stock, added a lower rail section to the stock hand guard and outfitted it with a 4.5-14 Burris scope with an AO. It's a very accurate rifle right out of the box and has a really good trigger for this type of rifle. Clean, crisp and relatively light pull, not the creepy/crunchy triggers one typically sees with most mass produced AR stuff..........

Update, things cooled of a bit so I wondered over to the larger bean field for some ground hog hunting. Shots here are further than the smaller field closer to the house ranging from about 150 yards to about 225 yards to the far corner of the field. One came out almost as soon as I got there right at the wood line, which is right at 200 yards from where I pulled the side-by-side off road. I held right at 2' over him and planted him with the first shot. Sadie ran over to make sure he wasn't going to make it back to his hole. It's difficult to tell the distance from the pics but I stepped it off at 197 steps........

I lost Internet service for the past few days but have increased my hit ratio to near 100 percent. Whacked 6 more since the last post. Part of the improvement came from taking the trigger group apart (interesting adventure that turned out to be) and lightening/smoothing up the trigger pull a bit. I've figured out hold-over out past 100 yards and have been lobbing the rounds in with greater precision. It's pretty fun stuff and the best part is that the gentle report from the 22 doesn't scare the entire field of ground hogs back into their holes. Just yesterday I shot one at 90 yards then seconds later another one at 150 yards when he rose up to check out the excitement. The only thing you don't get with using a 22 is planting them where you hit them. Many make it back to their holes even hit pretty good........ I also made some carpenter bee traps and trying them out. Been hot here and not much up for any shooting except early morning and late evening. Hoping things cool down some as it's time to get the rifles out and put a few rounds down range before we head out to Colorado in October.........

Getting this long range 22 long rifle thing figured out, was 2 for 2 yesterday. Whacked one at 125 yards and another at 80. From what I can see the 22 turns into a mortar for trajectory past about 80 yards, but once I figured out the hold-over have been getting on them pretty good. You can also hear the hits if you miss them in the scope as there is a slight delay as it takes the bullets a little time to get there......

Thanks. Sadie turned one year old last month and is doing great. She has some BIG shoes to fill since I lost two of my older females about this time last year. Not quite the killing machine that Samantha was but we're working on it. This long range varmint hunting with the 10/22 is pretty fun stuff, easy on the ears if nothing else. I just need to get to my range and get some sight dope out to 125-200 yards.

PS: I redeemed myself this morning, one shot one kill at quite a distance (for a 22 rifle). Sadie finished him off in short order.

I didn't find time to take any measurements today, just too busy with other things. I did find time to give a few groundhogs in a nearby soybean field a bellyache. My hit ratio is pretty poor, none were under 100 yards and I don't have my sight dope figured out past that distance. I did manage to hit one around 150 yards after shooting over and under him a couple of times. Pretty weird but he went down his hole, must have got sick then came back out and ran around outside the hole stopping just long enough a few times for me to put a few more rounds on him. Even carrying a good deal of lead he made it to the wood line and disappeared into the tall weeds. Another one popped out about 175 yards and gave me a nice broadside shot, but I held about 12" over him and just shot over him by inches. Less than a minute later one came out about 80 yards out he I nailed him pretty good (there is a noticeable and distinct "thud" when the bullet finds it's mark) but he also managed to make it back to the wood line and disappear into the brush. I like the quiet report of the 22 for groundhogs but will say I can't ever remember missing one with my AR-15 under 300 yards, so it's a new game for sure......

I've owned three 10/22's over the years but ended up selling all of them. That's why I had a couple of spare magazines laying around and just assumed they would fit the rifle I picked up a few weeks ago. I remember buying my first 10/22 way back when I first met Deb and she was working at Harts Family Center (late 1970's). They got in a shipment of them and were selling them for $60. They had white Birch stocks on them and the stock swelled up and moved all over the place making the rifle pretty much USELESS if you had a scope on it because the barrel band moved with the stock. I fought accuracy, or at least keeping zero issues with that gun for several years then sent it on down the road. Ruger also cut the rifling in them with a chainsaw! That was back in the earlier years for Ruger and they were doing a lot of investment casting vs forging/machining and quite a few of the weapons I bought from them had some pretty "rough" cut rifling in them. This included a complete POS Redhawk 44 magnum pistol I tried to use for long range use with heavy cast bullets. I was even stupid enough to buy a second one when the first one turned out to be a "turd", but that entire experience is a story for another place and time. Anyhow, the 25 round Ruger mag was a completely "no-go" and required .020" removed from each side of it, now it works fine. The older 10 round magazine fits but is a PITA to remove when you hit the mag release. The 10 round magazine sent with the rifle falls right out when you hit the release. I'm assuming at this point that they may have tightened up the specs slightly on this "tactical" version for sure. It's not the stock, plenty of clearance where it's cut-out, the restriction is actually in the receiver. I can get some measurements later today for comparison.....

I recently purchased a Ruger 10/22 and outfitted it with a 4-12 scope. Been having some issues with Raccoons at night trying to get into my chicken coup. I turn my dogs on them and they go up nearby trees so I shoot them out to them. So the other night we run a whole family of them up a tree next to the chicken coup and I ran out of ammo. Dropped the 10 round mag the rifle came with and went to install my Ruger 25 round mag and it doesn't fit. Not even close....WTF? Ended up dropping the last two out with my S & W .38 snub nose revolver. Man did that ring my ears pretty good! I ended up having to remove .020" from both sides of the 25 round mag and now it fits and works fine. So I had an older 10 round mag in the gun safe and it fits but really tight, doesn't just drop right out like the 10 round mag the rifle came with. Did they make a change to these newer 10/22's or do I have a fluke?..........

"Thanks for the info, @Cliff R . I’ll pick up some lighter loads before I shoot this one more." Good plan. For powder I found out nearly 50 years ago that much of the extruded IMR stuff is a little "crunchy" going thru the powder measure. Not a big deal but in the 1980's I purchased a chronograph and got an education is true velocity vs what is posted in the reloading manuals for various powder/bullet combinations. I was seeing more consistency with ball powder (and higher velocity with flat base vs boat tail bullets) and got rid of 3031, 4064, 4350 and a few others replacing them with BLC-2 and H414.....and never looked back. That statement doesn't mean that there is anything at all wrong with any of it. Matter of fact I had some 4320 left over from a purchase decades ago and used some of it up running-in 3 of these rifles with some generic 165 grain military style boat tail bullets I had laying around. I also pushed part of a box of older Sierra 150 grain flat base soft points with it, and those shot remarkably well thru my DPMS going well under 1" at 100 yards for 5 shots. I never did dive deeply into the velocity thing with the flat base vs boat tail designs but a slight loss there is very quickly overshadowed by improvements in flight over longer distances so I didn't dwell on it much. I was also shooting on a Military rifle and pistol team around that time so grabbing up Lake City Match 308 ammo which proved to be DEADLY accurate in my M-14 at any distance and those were boat tail bullets. Anyhow, sorry for being so long-winded, I'm sure you'll nail down a "pet" load for it that yields good performance without excessive pressure........Cliff

I missed the part about the ammo being 41 years old, good thing to point out. Inconsistency is only part of the equation, blowing out a primer is telling you that at least that round had some pretty serious issues making the entire lot unsafe for test firing....IMHO I'd shelve that stuff and make up some "fresh" loads on the lower end of the scale. Keep in mind that if you are starting out with heavier bullets there will be a quicker pressure rise than if you were to run some 150 grain bullets thru it instead. You've got more weight to get moving, and more engagement in the rifling as well, which all lead to increased pressure(s) over lighter bullets trying to do the same thing with them. I started all my 308-AR's out on either store bought 150 grain loads or used up a bunch of Sierra 150 grain soft points I had left over from decades ago. I pushed them with either H-414 or BLC2 nearly as I can remember, on the entry level end of the scale. Remarkably they shot very well despite the fast twist in these barrels. Once we had our rifles ran-in some I started putting the 175 grain Barnes loads thru them. Never saw any groups much more than 1" at 100 yards, and some were much tighter for 3-4 rounds till things heated up some. The pic attached shows one of the first groups I fired at 100 yards with my 14.7" PSA build. The first two rounds are down around 6 oclock and nearly in the same hole, the next two at 3 oclock and touching, then it threw the 5th round a little high but still fairly well centered. Acceptable for a pencil barreled 14.7" hunting set-up....IMHO.....

I was given a recommendation couple of years back when working up loads for our 308's to take out West for Elk hunting. 42 grains of Varget pushing 175 grain Barnes LRX bullets. No pressure signs in any of our rifles and good accuracy from all of them. Pressure builds quickly with heavy projectiles so always best to start on the bottom of the scale and work your way up. If you are "cratering" primers and blowing one out here and there for sure the weapon doesn't like that load much and I'd move on to something else........FWIW..... NICE build BTW, and pretty typical of these rifles to mark the brass up a bit, just goes with the territory....

The repair order stated that the gas block was "canted". I would imagine it just wasn't lined up with the hole in the barrel for some reason as it looked pretty straight and I don't remember a lot of "wiggle room" with the hand guard in place. One thing is for sure it didn't have any gas as delivered the first time, and now it does.......

Update. Ran the new PSA upper today and it was flawless. Tried several different magazines and some M-855 and it gobbled it all up w/o issue. Have to say that PSA did a fine job and very quick turn-around once they finally got back to work and made contact with me about the issues. They kept me updated via emails thru the entire process, never cost me one cent, and gave a detailed explanation of the problem and that they ran 60 rounds thru it after the repairs w/o issue.....

No, pinned it in place and went to the range. I hesitate to mess with brand new things as companies are just looking for reasons to not honor their warranty. I suspected under-gassed as it literally jammed every single round like it had none. Probably could have saved myself the effort of boxing it up and sticking a label on it just to have them do a pretty simple fix........

Just got this note from PSA: The following repairs were completed on your Palmetto State Armory product: Customer's gas block was canted. Adjusted gas block and shot 60rnds without issue through upper. If problem persist please have customer send in complete firearm Guess it was a gas issue as suspected. I'll see if it will run when it shows back up here.........

That would suck. I took the same ammo and magazines that would NOT run in that upper and plugged them into another new build we took along and it was flawless, so something is NOT right with that one. About the only thing we didn't do was swap out the BCG, but I did transfer the buffer and spring from one to the other and it didn't help at all......

Update. PSA is back in business and the upper goes back to them today. Stay tuned.....I'll update the thread when the upper gets back and we get to the range again......

UPDATE. PSA called yesterday and sent a return authorization for the upper. It's shipping out today for repair or replacement. They pay for everything under their "lifetime" warranty.......

I've thought about doing just that but so busy with other things I don't have time to mess with it. I'm almost certain it's a gas issue of some sort. So far I've tried different ammo and half a dozen different magazines with zero improvement. To double check those things I put them right into another AR we had out and it ran flawlessly with them. I also swapped buffers and springs from the gun that would run to the one that wouldn't and the problem stayed with the one that wouldn't run. Also did a visual on gas tube protrusion and it looks good, so left now with tearing it down to check the gas block to see if there is a restriction or something going on there. The problem with doing major surgery is that it gives them an "out" if I try to fix it and it's some sort of fundamental issue with the parts. I'd rather just ship it back and have deal with it. If I can get back up to our range before PSA responds I'm going to swap out the bolt and the lower just to see if there is something going on there?.......

Due to the "pandemic" PSA is not answering their phones so there is ZERO customer support. The message says to contact them via email and they will get back to you. I recently purchased a complete upper from them and it has MAJOR issues. That doesn't bother me, everyone from time to time will have problems with something that's man-made. The problem I have is that after a week of daily emails to them there is no response. I left my email address, home phone, and cell phone, nothing. I'm sure they will eventually get back to me and I'll get this thing shipped back to them for repair or replacement. Just wanted folks to know that if you are buying anything from them and have issues the customer support at this time seems non-existent. I get it and understand social distancing and all that chit, and how it has effected small businesses, hoarding of guns and ammo, causing sharp rises in sales and having to do more with less, etc, etc. It still doesn't account for pushing more stuff out the door and forgetting about helping out the folks you are selling stuff to if/when they have issues with it. Damned good thing that this AR build wasn't my first one and I was counting on it for home defense. You get ONE round off, then it's hopelessly jammed up becoming a better club than anything else!.......FWIW......

So far have heard NOTHING back from PSA. I suppose the COVID thing has them working a little short handed, at least in the Customer Service side of things.......

I was using Magpul 20 and 30 round magazines and had one 40 rounder but it hated all of them. Didn't have anything else with me to test.. I moved the same magazines over to the other AR-15 and ran over 140 rounds thru it flawlessly. Even moved the buffer spring and follower from one weapon to another, ALL the issues stayed with the short barreled upper. It has a MAJOR issue of some sort, but I didn't go into it to check the gas port for size or alignment, etc. Did look at protrusion of the gas tube and it's in equally as far as the other upper so didn't figure that was the issue. I didn't move the bolt from one to another because I wanted to keep their upper as-is and not try to troubleshoot it for them. If it's a bolt issue of some sort they can figure that out and replace it under warranty. Had ZERO luck getting in touch with PSA they aren't answering the phones and say to send an email instead. I sent one yesterday morning and another one mid afternoon and still no response from them. I'll send a few more today until someone answers so I can get this thing shipped back and either repaired or replaced. Minor chit in the big scheme of things I have PLENTY of other AR's to take to the range........

I've bought quite a few complete uppers from PSA, but mostly back before things became so "commercialized". I've had two so far that wouldn't "run". The first was my AR-47, the firing pin was too short. I machined it on my lathe and corrected that issue, told them about it and they sent the correct one. The 10.5" upper in the pic above is really messed up. Of course PSA is NOT taking phone calls at this time so I had to contact them thru email. Hopefully they'll send me a call tag for this one, either way it's going back to them. I'm betting there is a hole alignment issue or not sized correctly. I checked the gas tube and it extends PLENTY deep enough into the receiver to operate the bolt. It may also have an extractor issue, but whatever is wrong it is DANGEROUS to use the weapon so I'm boxing it up as I type this. All GOOD news with Cali, she's doing much better than expected and making great progress. Right now they are only treating her as a pre-mature baby, feeding tube came out couple of days ago and hopefully she'll be coming home soon.........