300BLK reloading

[survivalshop]

You can sight the rifle in for any one of the test rounds & it really doesn't matter where the others group on the target .

Once you pick the bullet weight & charge you want or that suites your needs ,re sight the rifle for that one .

They won't be that far off . The 135MK's I'm using now shoot about 2" higher than the 125 TNT's @ 100 yrds. . Might have something to do with BC of the 135MK bullet .

COL may change things up also.  I was surprised that a heaver bullet shot higher than a faster lighter one myself.

I dumped a twenty rd. mag. just to make sure the rifle was OK & this cartridge is very quick on return target acquisition.

[Jgun]

Last time I had mine out, (using a different lower since mine wasn't finished) I was at the range with all of my friends that had their light weight comp 223 AR's, and I got a chance to shoot the 300 and then pick up one of the comp 223's and try it, and there was a noticeable difference between the two as far as recoil is concerned. When I compared it to a standard tactical type .223 AR (also available to me that day) the difference in recoil was minimal. I attribute this to the fact that they are all loading light loads in their comp guns, while I, in order to try to reach the desired power factor, am loading hotter. the different comps that they were using might also have had some effect on perceived recoil. I'm planning to test out a couple of different comps to see if I can feel any difference,  I kind of like the feeling that I'm actually shooting something that has a little push to it, so the added recoil doesn't really bother me, The only thing that may cause me to rethink this rd for competition, will be if the bullet drop at say 200yds is so excessive that I can't get reliable hits. If it's just a matter of practice I'll be OK. It looks as though this may be an interesting year of experimentation for me with the 300.

[survivalshop]

Shooting 200 yd. range, there will be many factors , You will get more drop with any heavy bullet , but also the heavy bullets generally fly better at extended range .

You can look up any bullet weight /vol/range to see what drop it will have. Check this sight out.

http://handloads.com/calc/

To the left you can calculate the BC if you don't know it .I put in a 175 & 1400 fps(MV) & it came out at about 40" drop @ 200 yrd . but that was just an example .

I have a Smith Enterprises brake on my 16" 300BLK . They make two different brakes in .308 , I picked the shorter one ,because I wanted to keep OL as short as possable. It works real well , so much so I may change the Vltor on my 16" 308.

[Jgun]

That Smith looks like a nice comp, I may want to test one of them also. I tried that bullet drop calculator and got a drop of 7.5" at 200m with my 145 bullets. I played around with the velocity a little and see that if I can get even a little more muzzle velocity out of my load it will really help to reduce the bullet drop at 200m. It will be interesting to see if real world results actually turn out to be similar to the table. Thanks for the link. I'm thinking that for my purposes 7.5" bullet drop might not be a deal breaker for me, because in my experience the 200 yd shots in the matches are always on steel so all I have to do is hit the target to score. I'm thinking that if I sight in for 100 yds, the hit's will probably be close enough to point of aim out to 100-150 yds to work for me. Sounds like I might have a workable competition setup, as long as I can get the round to make the power factor.

[survivalshop]

I looked on the ballistic tables in the back of my Hornady reloading manual( third edition ) & it gives a lot of good info on bullet drop for a specific cal./bullet .

It has nothing on 175 gr. ,but it does have info on 168,165,&180 .

You look at the velocity at the muzzle & it will give some good info on drop & sight in .

Of course its mostly theory ,but gives you some where to start or think about .

I also checked my Speer & Sierra manuals & they both have them also.

Mine manuals are old , not sure if new ones have the tables in the back any more . They should .

[Jgun]

This may be a long one. In my effort to come up with the ideal load for my 300 I picked up one of those Hornady cartridge overall length gauges since I read here that loading your rds with the bullet close to the lead for the rifling contributes to accuracy. I had originally thought that the limiting factor to accomplishing this would be the space in the pmag. What I found was that the chamber to my 300 barrel would allow me to load the 145 gr bullets that I used for my first test loads, .125" longer than the 2.1" OAL of the first batch. Unfortunately, the bullets themselves prevent that, I would only feel comfortable going maybe + .03" longer than the last batch because I feel that there really isn't enough case purchase on the bullet. Thankfully, due to many generous people, I have several other types,weights of bullets to test. The first bullet next to the loaded rd is the 145 that I used for those test loads, the next one is a 155 Lapua, and the green tipped one is a 180 gr of unknown brand. The 155 and 180  both look promising, the only thing that concerns me is that in order to set the col properly in relation to the lead, I will have to seat them around .100" deeper into the case. As long as there is no problem with powder capacity in the case, they may work the best for me. If I can get them loaded this week, I'll just need to find time to get out to the range to chrono them.

[survivalshop]

Yes , bullet configuration will determan where they can be seated COL. & also with a mag. feed rifle ,the mags may also determan COL.

The bullet being seated as close as possible to the rifling is how most with bolt action rifles set them up .

You have to remember that these are auto feed systems & that may also add to the equation .

You can have a compressed load , you just have to watch for pressure signs . Add powder in small increments for testing & you will see when things start to go too high .

You can always pull the bullets that are higher then the ones that start to show , that's how I do it . I usually load 3-5 rounds of different charges & chrono & inspect them ,also see how they group .

The fastest &/or highest pressure  rds. do not always produce the best groups .

[Jgun]

At this point I'm still interested in finding out if I can achieve the 320 power factor from this rd out of my 18" barrel, without seeing signs of excessive pressure. I plan to load the rds that I mentioned, in  small amounts (5-10) to see if it's even possible. If I'm able to get loads that will make it, I will then start getting serious about the accuracy. I had actually gotten almost 2,100 fps out of the 145's the first time around. If I can get that fps with the 155's, that would equate to major power factor. I have been led to understand that this cartridge is not going to shoot flat like a .223 at 200 yds, And it is my understanding that the heavier the bullet the more it will drop at longer range. I'm thinking that the Lapua 155's I have may be my best bet. We shall see.

[rsilvers]

Yes.

330 PF is..

Sierra 175 loaded to 2.245 OAL.

Rem brass.

Rem primers (7.5).

A1680 powder, 20.0 grains.

1900 fps from 16 inch barrel. We have ammo like this commercially loaded and it is being tested by 3-gun shooters.

[survivalshop]

Well, how about that Jgun ? At least now ya got some where to start loading or buying ,if & when they come out with it  .

That shows about a -10" impact ,if sighted in @ 100Yds, if I'm reading that chart right  . Not sure if that would work for shorter ranges ,but your sight in can be adj. to your needs .

Range  Velocity    Impact    Drop ToF Energy Drift

200        1628      -10.8    22.13 0.34 1030 4.81

[Jgun]

It certainly is reassuring to know that people are making the PF with this rd. I have everything that rsilvers lists for the load, except that powder. I just placed an order on the Fourth for some more of the LIL GUN, and I ordered some Vihtavuori N110. I just did a quick check, and it looks like the 2.245" COL will fit in the Pmag, but just barely. Hopefully, I won't have to make any mods to the center rib.  I am hoping that I may be able to make it with the 155's because they might not drop quite as much as the 175 SMK's. Another thing that may help me is that my barrel is 18" and I see that all the data was compiled using a 16" so I could possibly see a little more MV from mine, but this is certainly good news. Up till now,all I've gotten from people is that "Yeah, you can make major", but when I ask for a load it's always "my buddy did it" or some other excuse. Now all I have to do is make the time to load those test rds.

[rsilvers]

Do a 200 yard zero.

[survivalshop]

Went to the range for 100 yrd testing of the 135 gr. MK bullets & some interesting things popped up .

One ,it was far too hot & humid , even @ 0830 to do anything . The sweat was rolling down into my eyes after setting up the Chrono & targets.

Note to self , do this kind of testing when cooler out .

I was using Rem. ACC 300 BLK cases & some cut down once fired LC brass.

The LC got a 20 fps more than the Rem. same load , same bullet same primer ,loaded on a Dillon 550B.

Rem. ACC 300 BLK brass

AVG. VOL.- 2034

ES--------    39

SD--------    16

LC cut down & formed

AVG.VOL.-  2054

ES--------    31

SD--------      9

The LC cases being thicker, must of course, have something to do with this .

The LC also had a much tighter 10 shot group , which of course, may be because the faster speed, may also be a better grouping combo . Hard to say with out more testing.

Now here's a strange one . I always lose a couple Rem.ACC 300BLK brass , every time I shoot . No idea where they go .

The Rem. brass goes about two to three feet behind me @ about the 5 0clock poss.. I search for them for a long time in every direction ,but I always lose a couple . This time six.

The LC brass on the other hand are all in a neat pile to the right of me @ about 330 poss..

This may also have something to to do with the slightly heaver brass , not sure .

No pressure signs on any of the loads , they look perfect.

[Jgun]

That cut down LC brass is starting to sound like the better option. So far it's all I've used because I couldn't get my hands on any of the factory brass. I thought it would be nice to have some that was marked 300BLK, but if there is even a slight performance advantage to using the LC stuff, I'm going to have to keep an eye out for another sale on new LC 5.56 brass

[rsilvers]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=680890

Redding dies are out.

[imschur]

Thanks!

[survivalshop]

Three die set ? Wounder if the FL sizing die sizes the neck also or you have the neck sizer to do that ,in a separate operation .

May be good for the bolt action ,but why a third die?

Or is it for case forming ?

I have no problems with my Forster two die set.

I will have to check Reddings sight for more info . I do like there die sets .

[Jgun]

I'm also wondering what operation the 3 die Redding set does that the Forster doesn't. So far I've been able to form and load functional rd's with my set, and when I compare my once fired brass to new brass that I form, the shoulders are almost exactly in the same place. Maybe the separate FL sizing and neck sizing dies allow you to fine tune the neck to certain bullets? As you say, it might be good for ultimate accuracy with the bolt guns, and I also like the Redding dies, but at twice the price, I'm wondering if I'm going to see any measurable improvement in the quality or accuracy of my rds if I go to the added expense, and extra work, to do an additional operation in my single stage?

[survivalshop]

If it was a type S bushing neck sizing die , it might be worth it , but didn't see that in the description.

Did a quick look at there sight & didn't see any thing ,even looked in the new products section , maybe missed them some how .

[Jgun]

I got out to chrono some test loads today, so now I need basic loading advice. I am probably being to cautious here, but I've never blown up a gun and don't think I want to find out first hand what it feels like. I tested bullets ranging from 145 gr to 180 gr, with various powder charges. I had 2 test rds that made my desired power factor, one was a 155gr bullet with16.5 grs of powder that gave me a best MV of 2073 FPS and the other was a 175gr SMK with a charge of 14.5 gr of powder that gave me a best MV of 1894 fps. Now both of these  loads did not give the stated fps as an average. the other rds of each loading that I tested all were slower, so If I hope to use either of these rds I will still need to increase the powder charge a little. None of the rds I tested today showed any over pressure signs on the back of the case, no blown out primers, no trouble extracting, BUT, I had several cases that split on me today. All the cases split at the front where the LC brass was resized to accommodate the .30 cal bullet. My question's are, Is the splitting likely a result of too much pressure? Could it be because the brass needs to be annealed? I have adjusted the COL on all of these rds to get the bullet ogive withing about .030" of the lead to the rifling, could that be a problem. I'd like to work up some more test loads, but I need to figure out why the cases are splitting before I'll feel comfortable increasing the charge on those loads that look promising. Any advice is appreciated.

[survivalshop]

Split cases can be from many factors & you can have more than one condition causing it .

Over worked brass , usually from firing & working the brass by resizing it over & over again.

Head spacing or unsupported case , your COL may have some thing to do with it .

Was the brass reloaded or newly formed ?

Some photos of the loaded ammo & split brass .

You didn't say which bullet combo split the brass ,do you know which load or loads did ?

My guess & its only a guess is a unsupported case ,  bullet too far out of case (COL ) or cases not formed or sized properly.

I have put some high pressure rounds through my 300BLK in testing & you have read what I came up with & never split a case. Blew out a bunch of primers ,but no case splits.

If you want the avg. vol. of the shot group , you can just do the math .

Write the vol. down & total the shot group up & divide by the number of shots in the group.

I log every shot any way & log the ES,SD & Avg. Vol. of every shot group.

[Jgun]

I will post some pics ASAP, but in the mean time. The brass was all brand new Lake City brass I bought from Midway, cut down in a lathe and formed using the Forster dies. My first test loads were 145's and they all performed well with no pressure signs. This time I loaded bullets of 145, 155, 175, and 180gr, using different charges of the same LIL GUN powder for all loads. What I found was that the 145's this time are still not making power factor even though I bumped the load up 1 gr from the last time. I also move the bullet forward about .020" because I found using the COL gauge that I had lots of freebore in front of that loaded rd. I would have moved it forward more but didn't think there was enough case purchase on the bullet to do that. The 145's gave no problems, no pressure signs, and no split cases, but also failed to make the MV I need. I will increase the load and try them again in the future. The other 3 bullets were all limited in COAL by either the mag room or the lead of the chamber. In all of them I was seating the bullet deeper into the case than with the 145's. I'm wondering if this reduced case capacity caused a pressure problem, but none of the primers indicate that. I adjusted all 3 of them to be as long as possible but left the freebore at .030". Now all three bullet weights had some case splits, but when chrono'd there was no connection between the fastest loads and case splitting, the rds that were the fastest, and actually made PF didn't  split their cases. I also noticed that there seemed to be a pretty wide range between the fastest and slowest rds in each ten rd batch I loaded to a particular charge, as much as 65 fps. Unfortunately I shot all that I loaded so I don't have loaded rds to post, but I will take pics of the bullet types I used and mark how deeply they were loaded into the case so you can see what I'm talking about. I think the 180gr bullet is loaded .150" deeper into the case than the 145. Of course the powder charge was also reduced so there were no compressed loads.

[Jgun]

Although I don't have any of these loaded rds left, The bullets are, from L to R  155gr Lapua sceiner, 175gr SMK, and 180gr ballistic tip. the bottom of the tape on each shows where the front edge of the case was and how deeply I had to seat them in order to fit the magazine or chamber. I was thinking that if the problem was somehow related to the forming of the brass, If I could find some new production 300DLK brass, and if I duplicate the same loads I'll know that it's a problem with the brass if the if the problem doesn't reoccur. I had no brass splitting problems with the 145gr's I loaded, even though those bullets had the shortest seating depth of any of the test loads.

[Jgun]

Speaking to my friend (who got me involved with the 300BLK in the first place) about the case splitting. He pointed out that when I cut down the brand new LC brass, I'm removing the annealed neck from the brass. He also suggested that I consider neck turning the brass because the case thickness of the newly formed neck on my 300 brass is thicker than the thickness at the neck of unmodified  Lake City 5.56 brass. I haven't had any problems so far with my loads using 145gr BT bullets, but, if I have to go through this much work to get usable 300 brass for my intended purpose, I'm thinking that factory brass will be a more desirable solution. I've also been told that there are companies that will perform annealing services on your brass. If I can't locate new factory brass, I may send some of my newly formed brass off to be annealed, before I make up any more test loads.

[survivalshop]

Annealing brass makes the brass softer for repeated expanding & resizing.

Firing brass work hardens it ,so annealing softens it up a little so it can be reworked .

You can form the brass than anneal it , might work out better for ya.

I have heard of  some people using a stepped process to make the case to a .30 cal . , they used different dies  , in a process to do this & I don't remember what they were.

It looks like your bullets are in the case far enough . You can have high pressure by seating a bullet too deep , but you would see high pressure signs on the case head & primer.

You can anneal your brass at home before you form it , its not that big of a deal. Just look it up , you can do it with a propane or map torch & a tray of water .

Turning the inside of the neck may cause problems with bullet tension.

You know what you are trying to do is on the border of this cartridges performance levels & may need special considerations as far as case forming , as in annealing , which you are aware of .

The velocity swing may have been the split brass rds..