Barrel Advice

[MajorJim]

Sorry if I pissed you off.

I did hear and did understand what you said.  It was my preference to stick with the DMPS extension and bolt - I have the new Match Young bolt and carrier designed for the DPMS style receiver, and it is my preference to stick with that.  That, and the barrel I am looking at was spaced for a DPMS bolt. 

I have read on other boards that there are issues with using a DPMS extension on an Armalite receiver, and vice versa.  The conventional wisdom was just avoid it.  It is good to hear that using one barrel extention with a different type is not an issue. 

Comments after my post on the selection of a Douglas barrel were made as an update to posts before that decision was made.  I thought that since I opened the door to other alternatives, I might was well report back on what I heard. 

Again, my apologies if that was outside the white lines here. 

I appreciate all of the advice I have received here. 

[imschur]

your not pissing anybody off, this stuff gets confusing, it's why we are here

[98Z5V]

Sorry if I pissed you off.

Not in the least, brother, not at all.  Just didn't see any comments from you about it after I said something about the Noveske barrel...  <dontknow>  I saw about the receipt of the Young carrier, but I didn't know about their bolt, too - though that was still a few months off.  On the same note, I know the Young carrier is chromed, and nice, but I thought their bolts was still coming out as a phosphated bolt - no benefit of keeping it over an Armalite bolt, and running it in the same carrier. 

And, there are no white lines with the .308 ARs, no matter how clear-cut it sounds coming from someone - everything is gray.  If it was all built on a mil-spec platform to a definitive TDP, it would be different, but it's not.  Any manufacturer can do anything they want, regardless to the rest of the industry, and call it "perfect," but basing that perfection off nothing other than opinion.  One particular manufacturer comes to mind, and it's not DPMS nor Armalite, nor any of their derivitives.

your not pissing anybody off, this stuff gets confusing, it's why we are here

True.  <thumbsup>

[Jgun]

I hesitate to add anything here because you guys have probably already covered it, and I have never seen the thread you speak of where they say that there can be problems mixing DPMS style uppers and Armalite type(Noveske) barrels (with the appropriate matching bolt or BCG) But I can state from personal experience that the MEGA .308 upper, which has DPMS config. barrel nut threads, does work with AR-10 barrels and BCG's. I know this because I've done it myself. I have no way of knowing if that means it would work for your Iron Ridge upper (although I'd bet it would) That's why I suggested that you give him a call to verify that the only difference was the barrel nut thread. I can certainly understand your reluctance to risk buying expensive parts that you might have to replace because they don't fit. I'm glad that I never saw the information that you read saying that it couldn't be done, because if I had, I probably wouldn't have put together my Mega/Noveske/Armalite carbine that is 100%n reliable.

[imschur]

This thread really strikes a nerve with me. I have yet to decide a barrel for my MA-TEN set. MajorJim is inspiring me to do "something"

[98Z5V]

From the sounds of that, you're thinking about "doing something" Douglas...  <dontknow> <laughs>

<munch>

[imschur]

That or JP

From the sounds of that, you're thinking about "doing something" Douglas...  <dontknow> <laughs>

<munch>

[survivalshop]

Just because its expensive , doesn't mean it will out shoot other barrels .

All this fancy stuff , fluted, wraped ,heat sink barrels , just don't impress me .

And I have heard & seen it all ,before.

Sorry ,JMHO.

[imschur]

Im thinking Major Jim was accidentally run off

[survivalshop]

Im thinking Major Jim was accidentally run off

He has a lot of info to soak in to make a decision .

We all know how that goes . The BBL. is a very important component of a build & there sure is a lot choices out there now .

Not like ,when I built my first AR 308.

[imschur]

of course when all else fails run a Fulton Armory. Best barrels for the money and as good as money costing much more. jmho

[MajorJim]

Didn't get run off.  Just had to log off tto take the computer on the road.

There is a lot to absorb, for sure.  The good news is that there is a lot more to absorb these days than there was two or more years ago.  More choices is a good thing, most of the time.

While there are more choices, they are scattered all over the place - no one vendor all of the options in one easy place.  And sometimes you have to dig pretty deep.  I just chanced upon the Young Manufacturing BCG after I emailed them to ask if they had a .308 version of their BCG.

And when you first start down the .308 trail, you have to wrestle with the whole compatability issue - what parts from an AR 15 are compatible with a .308?  What parts are compatible between Armalite and DPMS platforms?  What parts are not?  And on and on. 

And you get a part like a Young Carrier (no bolt yet) - damn, the DMPS retaining pin is too loose.  Oh, they didn't tell me they designed it to work with the regular M16 firing pin retaining pins.  Will a DPMS bolt fit into the Yong Carrier?  (Yes, as will other bolts).

This has been a two year process for me. 

So, here is my thinking process:

I went with DPMS style receivers - more comptabile platforms out there, plus, and a big plus, mags were interchangeable across a wide variety of platforms (and the Magpul mags at $20 a pop can be used).

Trigger - Geiselle two stage.  The epitomy of what "breaks like glass" should feel like.

Stock - Magpul PRS.  Anything from iron sights, low mount to high rings.  I have a 14.75" LOP, so the adjustment was important.

Cerakoting on the receiver group. 

Gas block - Lo Pro PRI (rifle length tube)

Forearm - taking a close look at the PRI 15"

BUS - Have a spare set

Brake - JP Bennie Cooley type or a Smith Enterprise vortex (depedning on whether I even need a comp)

Barrel - that was probably the toughest.  Since I believe the barrel and bolt should be matched, I wanted to have a barrel that lasted more than average.  Which is what led me to the carbon wrapped, Kreiger aluminum heat sink inquiries.  The claims are pretty impressive, but I found little in the way of actual support for those claims.  By the way, the latest from XPA:

Jim,

Proof Research/XPA Inc. now owns the carbon fiber patents that ABS used

to lease to make it's wrapped barrels. ABS no longer has access to

those patents.

Yes, we have AR-10 barrels that we sell chambered, head spaced with

bolt for $1030 plus shipping. We do not make AR-10 barrels with 5

inches of straight cylinder breach area. Special orders like that cost

$100 an hour with a minimum of 10 hours charged ($1,000 min.).

My issue with carbon was and is that there is a lot of information out there from the computer industry that discusses potential issues regarding the carbon acting as insulation instead of working to dissapate heat.  It is the heat dissapation that would extend barrel life, so this is important to me.  When I asked, they noted that the information I posted here was correct, but they couold not share how their process worked to allay my concerns.  For $1000+, I personally don't feel comfortable committing on a "trust me".

Lothar was an option, and we know aluminum acts as a good sink, but not a lot of information on just how durable that is.  I want more than a bench rifle, and again, at $875 when my primary purpose was barrel life, I passed.

Of course, you then have the stainless versus chrome moly deal.  I have never been impressed with 416 stainless for a rifle, and will go CM every time.  Lothar's LM-50 stainless is an exception, and in researching that, it does look like the real deal.

I found the Douglas from Superior Barrels I posted here.  Lots of good reviews on melonite extending barrel life, and Superior's coating is tougher than melonite.  While Superior won't say how long, information I found looks like it is a good bet that twice normal is a reasonable expectation.

I thought 24" barrels for an AR were a bit too long, and 20" left, IMHO, a bit on the table.  I started my quest for 21" and found the Superior at 22".  Done.

Another thing that makes the barrel quest so hard is the WIDE range in proces.  Fulton has some great deals if you buy off the rack, and I have heard no complaints about their barrels.  Krieger has some nice barrels, but man....$640 for one chambered (unless it is their 20" MTU version, then it is only $615).  If you want fluting to for the increased surface for cooling, that is an extra $130.  And BYOB (bring your own bolt). 

And of course, while most people are pretty new to the .308 AR platform, everyone has barrel experience with other rifles.  And prejudices and preferences. 

I ended up ordering the Douglas because they a top notch US maker, and their XX match barrels (which this one is) are among the best.  They are more well known with the bench rest crowd, but a lot of what those bench guys test for the rest of us ending up in use by us great unwashed.  I took care of the extended barrel life want with the Hard Blue coating, got the length I was looking for, and got a matched DMPS bolt with the barrel included in the price.  And the bolt will work with my carrier.

Figure the rifle will come in at around 10 pounds, which is close to what most of my hunting rifles weigh.  If a 160 pound GI could hump a 9.5 pound Garand across Europe and Africa, I think I can man-up to handling the weight. 

Would it have been cheaper to buy a completed rifle off the rack?  I'd bet on it.  Would I have had an easier time buying a rack barrel?  No question.  But this is my build.  Something I am doing just for me.  I have certainly taken my time, but I'd rather wait than settle for something I am building.  But that's just me. 

[imschur]

I think you made a great choice.