The Problems with the PA-10 Carbine Recoil System

[98Z5V]

In my true fashion, I'm tired of fixing problems for manufacturers, fixing pissed off customers of manufacturers, and tired of seeing the same issue, over and over.  If it's a one-off thing, or a tolerance stacking issue, that's a different story.  When a manufacturer KEEPS doing the wrong thing, and doesn't take input, that's when I say I've had enough.

PSA, you have a PROBLEM with your PA-10 Carbine Recoil System.  You should have called me back...

I tried to handle this on a professional/personal level, outside of the board.  I called PSA Customer Service on Friday, 8 June 2018.  I spoke with a very nice lady, and told her that the company has a big problem with the PA-10 Carbine Recoil System, I can fully explain that the issues are, and I can provide the details to fix this for good. No more angry customers that way - and to please get that message to Jamin - please have Jamin call me.  I provided my phone number.  Right after that, I sent Josiah a PM here, and explained that I'd called, explained the message that I left, and asked if Josiah could please follow up and make sure that Jamin got that message.

I didn't get a call, and I never heard back in a PM from Josiah.

Ok, cool.  Here's how I got into this mess in the first place - I'm TIRED of seeing all the messed up large-frame carbine recoil system problems from PSA, on this board.  Sick of it.  The company, PSA, needs to fix the issues, or start paying customers for the correct parts that they have to buy in order to have a fully functional large-frame carbine recoil system.  While we're at it - maybe they can pay some of us for troubleshooting, diagnosing, and FIXING their large-frame guns for their customers - and making HAPPY CUSTOMERS for PSA. 

In this thread right here, I had my last straw:

 

You get into that thread a little bit, and you see that it's @Bigfoot's thread, but  @Gopher is also having an issue with his PSA large-frame gun.  At this point, I'd seen enough.  I told Gopher that I'd strip one of my guns, and send him a complete Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System for FREE, and give him $10 (to cover shipping) for him to send me his PSA PA-10 Carbine Recoil System.   "Don't send anything to me until you get my parts, and once you have them, please send me your faulty large-frame Carbine Recoil System."  It went down.    

These are Gopher's parts:

The numbers don't lie.  That buffer spring is 28 coils, wire diameter is 0.070", and the relaxed length is 11.5".  That buffer spring isn't even up-to-spec to run on an AR-15 Carbine Recoil System.

Now, there is no denying that Clint Butler (Slash) of HeavyBuffers.com is the end all/be all for AR recoil systems.  There isn't anyone out there in this industry that smarter on recoil systems than him.  There just isn't.  Here's his reference chart for big and small ARs. Click it to make it HUGE, and soak in the information...

Now, to further compound Gopher's issue he was having (his bolt carrier was hitting the ears on his lower receiver, and the gun was "over-gassed"), here's more measurements:

Internal depth on the receiver extension is 7 11/16".  That's not bad.  It should be 7 5/8", but your customers, PSA, can make this difference up by adding a quarter into the receiver extension first, then putting in the spring and buffer.  the thickness of a quarter is 0.069", and one will do the trick.  But why should your customer have to do this?... That dimensional challenge right there - THAT is why the BCG is crashing into the ears on the lower receivers.  Solved.  For you.

Next, that buffer.  Yeah, it's 3.250" long - so that's right.  It's an H buffer.  What should be running in the large-frame ARs with Carbine Recoil Systems is the H3 buffer, at about 5.4 ounces.  There's not nearly enough weight in that buffer you ship, PSA, to control the gas and mass (mass of the BCG) of the .308 Win round in a large-frame AR.  What happens when you use that lighta$s H buffer is:  the gas system provides the force for operation, but the recoil system doesn't have nearly the A$S it needs, and the gun has premature unlocking of the BCG.  And, your customers think their gun is,... what?...  OVERGASSED. 

Fix your large-frame recoil system, PSA.  Would have been a hell of alot easier to do this over the phone, I'd think.

Jamin, I respect your service, and I really respect what you're trying to do in the firearms industry. I commend it, and you, and you're doing great things. You were a 1LT, right?  This is something just like the US Army, right here.  This comes to you from an angry retired 1SG that is tired of fixing your shiit.

Tom-Ass out.

Edited June 25, 2018 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

@Gopher let me know how your gun is running, when you get the chance. 

[edgecrusher]

This is now locked and pinned. Short and sweet.