Fixed carry handles

[98Z5V]

6 minutes ago, Anderson3754 said:

No no no. I shoot Highpower slow fire prone. Palma 800-900-1000. Traditional Benchrest shooting I have no use for

You just said you never shot this thing past 600!...    

[Anderson3754]

3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You just said you never shot this thing past 600!...    

Geez you type fast.... my 2 AR10's at 600 yds. First love are bolt rifles. Oh... I use to hunt alot. Just not anymore. Couple of deer, several pheasants and rabbits, some squirrels, and lately ground hogs.

[98Z5V]

44 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

What's your .308AR drop at 850 yards - or close - for your long range load?

I type so fast that this question got by you.  So, what's your load data on your round, and your drop at 850 yards - or your drop at something close to 850 yards?... 

[Anderson3754]

52 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

I type so fast that this question got by you.  So, what's your load data on your round, and your drop at 850 yards - or your drop at something close to 850 yards?... 

180 VLD 43.5 gr or 188 VLD 42.5 gr... RL 15 powder.. Win case, 92win Palma case, CCI BR2 primer.

With a 600yd zero its 10 min to 800 yds sometimes it can be 12min depending on temp and air density and what range your shooting at, not all of are ranges are flat.

100-200 up 2min     200-300 3min sometimes 4min,     300-600 11-12 min   Based on a 600 zero to shoot 850 start at 10 1/2 min  (60 -65 inch drop from 600)

Edited September 25, 2020 by Anderson3754

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, Anderson3754 said:

180 VLD 43.5 gr or 188 VLD 42.5 gr... RL 15 powder.. Win case, 92win Palma case, CCI BR2 primer.

With a 600yd zero its 10 min to 800 yds sometimes it can be 12min depending on temp and air density and what range your shooting at, not all of are ranges are flat.

100-200 up 2min     200-300 3min sometimes 4min,     300-600 11-12 min   Based on a 600 zero to shoot 850 start at 10 1/2 min  (60 -65 inch drop from 600)

180 VLD even chamber from a magazine?  It's too long to load to 2.800" COL, which is mag-length, minus a few special AR magazines.  Single load those things? 

Have you shot at 800 yards yet?  Or further? Honestly...

What Highpower competition that you shoot at isn't flat?  They're all flat. You guys never shoot at angles that matter (5* up or down isn't going to matter, especially at 600 yards), and all your targets are known-distance, so you never have to estimate range to target. You know what the range to your target is, every time. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

3 hours ago, Anderson3754 said:

Ya got me on that one. i've only shoot them at 600 yds prone, front rest, rear bag 16 inch high at a 100yds generally puts you in the 9 ring at 600 yds. From there its 10 min to 800yds, 5min to 900 yds and 5 min to 1000 yds. 188 gr vld and 43.5 grs of Reloader 15 Br2 primer and a Win case.

So, you don't know what your exact drop at those distances actually is?  Even for an exact temp?  It looks like - from what you're saying, that you have a 100 yard zero.  Then you just go another 16" (about 16 MOA, but not, because 1 MOA = 1.047") to hit in the 9-ring at 600?  Then, you add another 10 MOA to 800 yards?  On top of that 16" from 600?  Another 5 MOA for another 100 yards, to 900?

That's just confusing.  Why don't you know your drop-for-distance, for every distance that you shoot?  Not "adding more for more xx-more yards".  If you shoot at these distances, you know your drop for each distance, so you can just dial it and be done.  Know your drop for distance, dial it, then you only have to account for wind - which is objective, but subjective. Depends on whether you can read it accurately or not, but more in how many times it changes directions between you and the target, if you catch that it changed directions, what it is at the muzzle vs. at the target, etc.  There's not always wind flags out there, and there never are, when you're hunting... 

I know all that for mine, for all my long distance guns, and have charts made up for all of them.  On top of that, I have separate charts made up for Density Altitude, for each one, so I can just check my density altitude in the Kestrel, look at chart/check chart, dial, shoot.  Hit.

3 hours ago, Anderson3754 said:

I like that setup alot, nice adjust Butt plate.  Tell me how is your rear sling attached to that stock, its hard for me to see, the how part. 

It's all covered in the build thread on that gun, in the Members Builds section.  Mk11 Mod 0 is the thread to look for. 

[Hick]

Is there any way I can build an upper for hunting and still use the lower or just do a whole  new rifle would like it to be a .308 but not sure which direction to go to build it

[DNP]

Absolutely. Build the lower to your liking and build two uppers. I would recommend keeping them as complete uppers and maintain a BCG with each of them. Pop the pins and swap whenever you want. I would build the gun you want to hunt with first and run it for a bit....you may find you don’t need anything else, but if you’re like the rest of these guys....you might build 6 more rifles. 

[Hick]

Yea thought about building another upper would like to use the 20 inch for hunting goin to deffenitly build another upper to put on but what is a 20 inch really good for just bench shooting people don't really hunt with 20 inch barrels?

[DNP]

Guys here hunt with 16 and less. How far are you really going to be taking a shot and knowing that you can humanely harvest an animal? - that tight there sets your range you need to have both accuracy and effectiveness in. 16 will meet that need all day long. And for a hunting gun, I’d run a lighter profile barrel to shave as many ounces as you can off it.

Depending at what range you target shoot, you might find yourself happy with a shorter gun, or if you really like the look and added FPS of the 20”, you might go that way. That’s how these guys end up with a dozen rifles.  Different builds for different tasks and different looks. There is no “right answer”. All comes down to you, what you like, and what you want it to do. 
 

edit to add: there is also no “one size fits all”.  A benchrest guy will Not be happy with a pencil profile 16 and a hunter would be somewhat hating life to lug around a 24” bull barrel for 3 days in the mountains. Somewhere in the middle would be a compromise, but it wouldn’t be “the best gun ever” for either situation. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by DNP

[Cliff R]

Couple of minor things to add here. 

For a hunting rifle in 308 I'm wanting to shorten the barrel up to save weight.  Especially for rifles carried out West at high altitude. Every ounce is like a pound at 9000-1200' and if you are on public land or where you have to hike in quite a ways you'll be damned glad you picked a 16" barrel over 20 or 24" barrel with your new 308-AR rifle.  My 308-AR hunting rifle is 10 pounds and that is with a 14.7" lighter profile barrel with a welded flash hider in place (pic below).

I'd also point out here that shots taken on game, even out West are seldom much over 200 yards and the vast majority of the Elk I've shot at and killed have been well inside 75 yards and I've taken several under 20 yards.  They are NEVER standing still just waiting around for me to put a bullet thru the good stuff.  They are almost always moving, and typically in pretty heavy cover.

I've hunted 3 different areas in Colorado now and it's always the same thing.  Just like whitetail hunting back here in Ohio, when the hunting pressure is turned up the Elk go up high and/or timber so thick you have to crawl thru it to get near them, or a little of both.  These TV shows that show hunters spotting them then having nearly endless time to "set-up" on them just NEVER happens where I've hunted, and I'm not much into all that anyhow.  I think that more times than not all that TV show stuff are for "pet" bulls they have been spoon feeding on a ranch someplace since birth and born and bred so some guy with too much money who works at his cushy desk job all day can pay $10,000 $20,000 to fly in, be driven right up to them, then pull out his expensive 7mm magnum rifle he's only shot a couple of times and finish him off.

Anyhow, I prefer to work hard at it and hike far enough from the main roads that I start to see a lot of activity then ambushing one when he comes sneaking thru thick cover to get to a watering hole or food source.  Watching open areas and setting up for long distance shots has been like hunting on the moon, and I've been going out there now coming up on 30 years.

With ALL platforms, AR's in particular you really need to consider how high you mount your scope away from the barrel.  Keep in mind here that the "line of sight" is always a straight line, and the path of the bullet is a curve and it turns into a "mortar" the further it gets from the barrel.   Since the bullet has to rise sharply to get up to your line of sight it will need to cross the line of sight somewhere relative close, like 25 yards for example, but you may have to "stretch" that out some if the scope is up off the barrel quite a bit .  At that point the bullet continues to rise until gravity starts in back down toward the line of sight again. What throws a monkey wrench into that deal is that the higher your scope is the higher the bullet will be above the line of sight and you can actually shoot over big game in the "mid-range" before the bullet starts back down and crosses the line of sight again.

I recommend nailing down the most ideal distance where your combination crosses the line of sight the first time, then checking it at several distances in between there and when it drops back across the line of sight again.  Since most of the game you will shoot will be in that distance try to "stretch" out those distances so that you can pretty much use a zero hold for all close shots.  I'd add here that the flatter the gun shoots the easier this is to accomplish.

At this point, lets say the bullet ends up crossing the line of sight the first time at 25 yards, then shows 3" high at 100 yards,  then goes a little higher to 5" at 150 yards, then back down to the line of sight again at 225 yards, you are pretty much good to go and no need for fancy range trajectory devices built into your scope where you may not have time to implement them anyhow.  Just be aware that between about 100 and 175 yards your bullets will hit high so a slightly lower hold may be better within those ranges.

I just pulled the numbers out of thin air above but knowing your weapon, ammunition and sight dope is THE key to accurate shot placement and successful hunting.  Basically you want to take as many variables out of the equation as you can, like "hold over" in the normal ranges that you are most likely to be shooting in.  You would not believe how many see-thru cheap POS scope mount set-ups or really high AR scope mounts I've seen over the years where the owner/shooter was WAY too high in the mid-range where they might miss a decent size animal all together or at least put really high hits on them if they did use a zero hold in the middle of the kill zone.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Cliff R

[98Z5V]

13 hours ago, Cliff R said:

I recommend nailing down the most ideal distance where your combination crosses the line of sight the first time, then checking it at several distances in between there and when it drops back across the line of sight again.  Since most of the game you will shoot will be in that distance try to "stretch" out those distances so that you can pretty much use a zero hold for all close shots.  I'd add here that the flatter the gun shoots the easier this is to accomplish.

This entire post, Cliff, is one of the best "recommendation" posts I've ever seen here,for hunting.

What's specifically described above - what I quoted - is called "Maximum Point Blank Range" - MPBR.  research into that term spells it all out, and why it's important for hunters. 

[Cliff R]

Thanks. 

I hope the information helps some.......

[Hick]

Thank you all for the info and thank yall for your time to type all of it up on here