Self Defense/Home Defense AR Trigger

[98Z5V]

Don't know where it came up, but it was another thread, routine coversation, but home defense guns was either A topic, or THE topic - can't remember. 

I answered that my home defense gun was 5.56, 14.5" barrel (used to that length, from days of old, and I can work it).  I answered that my trigger was the Geissele Super 3 Gun trigger, and someone asked why that trigger.  Home defense is a different game.  It's not combat, you don't pick it - you don't pick the time.  It's your home, but it's not on your timeline.    Otherwise, just light them up with an M-240 and be done with it, if you know it's coming.  Kinda like military shiit, it's an ambush - on you and your personal property.

That's very personal... 

Home invasions have been on the rise for over a decade - more and more, in less-likely places than you'd think.  Suburbs, small towns, etc.  You never know - we never know - when it might happen...  to us.

My answer is a trigger that works in an environment such as that.  Geissele Super 3 Gun, or one of it's derivitives (there are a few now).

Here's the description of the Super 3 Gun, right off the Geissele website, and why it fits the bill, to a T...

The S3G trigger has a very short, light pull and reset. We do not recommend it for duty use, bench rest, accuracy work or shooting small groups. It is designed for close course competition use where rapid target engagement with quick follow up shots are required.

BOOM  SHAKALAKA,

 

 

Had to include Pastor Manning in there, just because of the BOOM SHAKALAKA. 

If you want to defend your home against - whatever comes your way - hopefully it's NOT a home invasion...  but it may be...  IMHO this is the best trigger for you, for that purpose.

very short, light pull and reset. use where rapid target engagement with quick follow up shots are required.

Well, done deal - that's ALL ABOUT some home defense, right there, is it not?

So, at any rate, that's my pick.  Let's discuss.  What do you guys want in a HD trigger?  HD = Home Defense.  My G S3G is staying.  Right where it is. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

Don't know if you can see it in this pic, but this Super 3 Gun has some wear on it.  This trigger is from 2010.  The FDE MagPul MIAD grip is so dirty, it looks gross.  I won't clean it, though. 

[BrianK]

This has some dust on it but OK...

No matter the use I'm a trigger snob and I admit it. I have far too many rounds fired with excellent triggers to suffer a less than really good trigger. If the trigger is less than superb it's the first thing I will change on a new firearm.

Can a trigger be too light? Yes. I have a trigger in an Encore that is wayyyy too light. But I know to do as I always do and don't put my finger on it until I want to discharge it. I need to send it back to have it made a bit heavier. The weight that sets it off has to be measured in ounces but I just never checked it. I should.

On my competition guns I must have a crisp light trigger with a short reset. I get to the point with them that I know exactly when they will break. Every once in awhile I'll put a laser on my PCC for USPSA and I had one gent come up to me and state, "The dot moves all over never settling down and I have no idea how you do it, but there's the proof.". He indicated my targets that had all fast A zone hits. The key is knowing when the gun will discharge and just being on target at that moment. I don't even see the movement that he saw, I'm moving too fast to see it. 

Like you 98Z I see parallels between competition and a home invasion and why would I have one set up for competition and another lesser trigger for when lives are in the balance? That having been written I do have a heavier trigger in my EDC handgun than in my comp' handgun. I don't know why, I think I succumbed to the thoughts of others about it. But it's still a really good trigger. 

I did put a trigger on my HD AR handgun that has a really superb trigger and gives a heavier than spec' hammer strike. I haven't had a light primer strike in decades. The last was on a S&W revolver that had tension removed from the hammer spring, but I want to make sure hence that trigger (Hiperfire Genesis).

[98Z5V]

Yep, I see someone breaking into your house as an ambush on you.  You don't get to pick the time, place...  you have to react to the act upon you.  Most times that will be in the middle of the night, and you need to wake up and just go towards what's threatening you, inside your property.  That same gun has a 45* ambi safety on it.  Get it off, do what needs to be done on the trigger, easy to go back on with the trigger finger when it comes out of the trigger.

If it's not a deadly threat - don't shoot.  If you're faced with a deadly threat, apply your training.  You have one chance to get this right.  Fine motor functions and complex problem-solving are out the window.  You'll be left with gross motor skills, because of the adrenaline dump your body is dealing with.  Keep it simple, set the gun up simple, and train simple.  Know your route through your hose.  Address the threat, and clear your house, safely.  BREATHE!!!...   While your brain is going haywire...

[BrianK]

Precisely! I've been training with the same (well the same within a broad spectrum) gear for 20+ years. I don't need to think about it, it's hard wired into my subconscious. That's exactly why I compete and suggest to others that they do the same. My conscious mind moves me around the course unless I DQ, then it was the subconscious in charge. The conscious also makes mandatory mag changes, the actual trigger safety and shooting is automatic. The trigger? Finger comes off automatically and goes onto the frame, then goes back on as needed and applies pressure to prep for the shot, then a bit more to make the shot when things are right. So a light trigger? Makes no difference since the finger isn't on it until a shot is intended. 

But as far as clearing my home? Only if society has broken down, like what happened in Seattle 2 years ago. My job is to keep the wife safe in the safe room and to set up the 911 recording for my defense via speaker phone. I'll let the cops clear the house after I throw them the keys out the window so that they don't need to break the entrance. If I'm not forced to shoot that's a gunfight I always win. I just hope the invader doesn't kill the dogs. That would REALLY piss me off! But knowing the dogs as I do the invader would want to kill them so as to stop blood loss. With a Seattle scenario, yes, I'd need to clear my own home. I'd also do what I could to set up my defense 'cause until the evidence is seen and maybe after, if shooting starts the worst is assumed and charged. 

For those who read over it, I strongly suggest competition to get the subconscious involved in the stuff it can do to lighten the workload for the conscious mind. Too much for it to handle and one freezes.

[98Z5V]

8 hours ago, BrianK said:

For those who read over it, I strongly suggest competition to get the subconscious involved in the stuff it can do to lighten the workload for the conscious mind. Too much for it to handle and one freezes.

Funny you state it that way.  Me and @JBMatt shoot a match each month, and the way he describes it is like that.  

Timer goes off, you go after it, it might be an 8rd stage or a 12 rd stage, and you clear it, maybe shot an extra - maybe hit everything single-shot per target and cleared it perfect.  One rd per target. 

Matt calls that>>>   "DUDE!  You were shooting UNCONSCIOUS!"  It was nothing but economy of motion, movement, targets hit - and zero thought going into it.  Muscle-memory stage, right there.  Smoke 'em.  Never the same stages, but every once in awhile, the distances, target sizes and paint, the gun, the optic - all cooperate with what your head is trying to do, if it's even turned on...  

[BrianK]

Exactly. You're one with the gun and the job just gets done. It's the fastest way to shoot, just free the mind to allow it to do what it knows to do and keep alert to what needs guidance. Noobs can't do it, it takes lots of practice because it takes experience to wire the submind. The only time it ever effs up on me is if I let the subconscious move me around the stage. I've been known to break the 180 and it's always when I'm in auto pilot. The range is not the place to allow the subconscious to take over those gross movements. It works so good that when I was shooting a 1911 I would have noob shooters call to me and hold 2 fingers an inch apart to tell me where my shots that sounded like full auto were placed in the A zone. 

How many times have we driven somewhere and don't remember any of it*? Same thing. The subconscious was in charge and we were perfectly safe. Or safe as long as nothing out of the ordinary happened. Then the subconscious would be in a pickle and hopefully call to the conscious mind to take over. 

Anyone who was in the military during the later years of Vietnam was taught this in the Quick Kill course. It wasn't explained, we were just taught it. Just raise the gun and shoot for the kill faster than what I wrote can be read. Like lightning. When I got out and did some upland bird hunting if I didn't consciously slow myself down all I had was a cloud of feathers in the air and no bird. Google Quick Kill, but it won't explain how it worked inside the body, they'll just explain the mechanics of it.

* when sober and not on drugs

[98Z5V]

40 minutes ago, BrianK said:

Noobs can't do it, it takes lots of practice because it takes experience to wire the submind.

It takes alot of rounds downrange, on the platform you're shooting.  Caliber, too.  Same platform, different calibers?  Different training.  Completely.  Start from scratch, and spend a bunch of time, money, ammo - until you reach proficiency.  Once you reach proficiency - you need to train to failure. Go, until you suck. 

Figure out why that happened...  and fix it...

I can perform intricate brain surgery with a .mil issued M4A1 and Mk 262 issued ammo.  Aimpoint out front, lock on the PVS-14 on the back of the gun behind it when the sun's going down.  

I'll take a Mk12 any day over the M4.  All day, every day.  

Edited December 13, 2022 by 98Z5V