Carrying With A Round In The Chamber...

[MtnMike]

I agree that I'd like to keep pocket carry as an option. I've got a Springfield Hellcat around here somewhere that I got for the wife. She doesn't carry it, which was the original intention. Need to see if I can pick up those sights with my old eyes.  My recollection is that with the flush magazine, it was very similar in dimensions to the P938.

 

[shooterrex]

My Sig365 has night sights that I can pick up pretty well day or night.

I put TFO's on about everything else I carry. Bright dots day or night.

The 365 fits in my pocket well and has the best trigger for a striker fired pistol I have come across.

[MtnMike]

I pulled out all of my 9mm handguns to compare their sights and see if I can continue to pocket carry. The SigP938 has white tritium Siglite night sights.  The Sig365xl, which has a Holosun red dot on it now, still has the green tritium Xray front sight on it.  The Hellcat has a Udot sight with a ringed tritium front. My Browning Hi-Power Standard, 75th Anniversary edition has painted white dots front and rear.

To start with, I can see a fairly decent sight picture with all of them at my house. Though admittedly the P938 is basically just a black blade sight in the daylight.  So my problem may be as simple as dubious or dirty shooting glasses during my last trip to the pistol range (which doesn't have great lighting to begin with).  The old Browning, with painted white dots, is definitely the easiest to see during the day.  But obviously cannot pocket carry with a standard size pistol.  Hellcat is not bad. The Udot rear combined with a painted circle around the tritium front sight is significantly better than the P938.  I might could switch out the green front sight from the 365xl to the P938, but not feeling real motivated.

Think I'll take them all with me to the outdoor range next week for more testing.  Been too long since I shot the Browning if nothing else. I used to love that gun before I became a trigger snob.

[Cliff R]

Does the Hellcat have eluminated sight?  I've never looked at the ones on mine and don't use the sights for close quarters work.  I draw, point and shoot.  The weapon needs to be an extension of your hand like pointing your finger at something. Shooting for self defense needs to become instinctive.  You have to hone your skills and trust your abilities.  Ya, even drawing in front of the mirror and dry firing like you did with all your cowboy gear on like you did when you were a kid.  Just don't be like a good friend of mine who incidentaly left a round in his 357 magnum and destroyed the wifes vanity mirror in the bathroom!  The bullets will be there, you just have to practice, practice, practice before anything like that simply becomes second nature.  They always told us (SAI's) that it takes apprx 1000 rounds before this will happen, so stock up on ammo and get out there and start shooting.  My target of choice here are the lids I cut out of my 55 gallon barrels so I can use them to burn trash.  They are about the right size and you can see all your hits.  Paper targets don't cut it for this type of practice....at least for me as I like the instant gratification of hearing the rounds slam home and know for sure I'm ventilating the target. 

Ya, I know, we teach sight picture, sight alignment, proper grip, stance, breathing and trigger squeeze, etc, etc.  Not saying all that isn't important here.

However, most folks don't hit what they are aiming or pointing at with handguns simply because they jerk/slap the trigger, anticipate the shot, fight the recoil, or just don't have good shooting skills perfected yet. 

Most gunfights will happen at very close distances.  Poor lighting is likely, targets will be moving, and you may be taking fire.  Sights will be the LAST thing you'll be looking for when this happens.......FWIW......

Edited May 24, 2023 by Cliff R

[MtnMike]

@Cliff R  The Hellcat has a small green tritium night sight on the front blade surrounded by a small white circle.  Really not very bright during the day and I never practiced with it at night.  Originally, bought it for the wife, but I've kind of reclaimed it lately since she wasn't using it. It is easier for me to see with the Hellcat's sights compared to my old Sig P938's sights.

I'm with you on the regular practice.  I took the Hellcat to the indoor range earlier today since I haven't shot it that much.  Mainly drawing from the pocket holster and quick firing groups of 2 and 3 shots at a 6" target at about 5yds. (15 feet). By the end the hour, I was up to 90%. I also hear you on not actually looking at the sights for those first couple of shots. But I do like to be able to focus on the sight and target after that - I guess in case I have to "finish the job".  My eyes are getting weaker as I get older.

I used to hit the pistol range every week or two before ammo prices went crazy.  Getting back into the habit.  Lots of drug crazed whack jobs walking the downtown of Asheville where I work.

[Cliff R]

 "Mainly drawing from the pocket holster and quick firing groups of 2 and 3 shots at a 6" target at about 5yds. (15 feet). By the end the hour, I was up to 90%"

Do that daily for a month and I'm betting you'll be up to 100 percent!

Sights are not needed for "close quarters" work, IMHO.  I practice drawing and shooting frequently.  I consider "close quarters" 3' to about 10'.  No need for sights or coming all the way up with the weapon.  I don't "hip shoot" as was commonly taught decades ago and depicted in Bill Jordan's excellent book.  I prefer to bring the weapon up further to chest level with a solid two hand grip.  Without using sights and some practice all your rounds should fall inside a playing card without much effort.

Quick aquisition sights have taken over the industry in recent years and I can see why.  I prefer them on my AR-15's and have my "go-to" AR outfitted with an Eotech and a Red Dot on another one that I really like.  It's motion activated which is pretty cool so no buttons to mess with when it's time to get to work with it......

Edited May 27, 2023 by Cliff R