Issues with build after barrel change

[Sparkylr308]

Hello all. You guys helped me get my 308 win AR up and going about a year ago. I was running a faxon pencil barrel. I recently decided to change to a heavy profile BA barrel because it was a crazy good deal. Both are rifle length gas systems. All other parts are the same:

JP enhanced extractor and dual ejectors

kak bcg

orange sprinco buffer spring -internal buffer tube depth is 7”

heavy buffer 

Noreen upper and lower

jp adjustable gas block with armalite AR-10 rifle gas tube because it was slightly longer

radian raptor changing handle

i drilled out the gas on the BA barrel to .096 with a reamer. The hole ended up a little wonky. Slightly egg shapped. My issue is it has been double feeding and failing to eject to sometimes. I went through the set up process again per JP’s instructions. And every so often it double feeds and sometimes just fails to eject-the round sits on top of the magazine or it will get caught between the bolt and feed ramps. Almost like short stroking? When it does cycle, it ejects to right around 3/4. I turned up the gas a bit more to see if that fixed it but it didn’t and tried other magazines(magpuls). The ammo i am using is hand loaded by me. 155 gr hornady BTHP, LC brass, BL-C(2), and S&B primer. Part of me is wondering if it is the powder. I have heard bad things about this powder before. Kinda finicky. Have not tried factory ammo through it yet. What are some other things to look for tht might be causing an issue? Going to take apart the bolt tonight to check that. 

Thank you!

 

 

 

[shooterrex]

Did you open the gas block all the way up to start?

Did you only load one round in the mag and see if it will lock back on an empty mag?

I would get it running with factory ball ammo before trying my handloads.

[98Z5V]

Yep, that's a no-shiit Double Feed.  Double Feeds are ALWAYS magazine related.  There's no other way around that.  Mark that magazine with a silver Sharpie, and go shoot it more to confirm it, then smash it with a hammer after confirmation.

Nothing else cause a TRUE Double Feed, but a mad magazine.  Nothing.  And that's a true double feed, right there in that pic.  2 live rounds trying to enter the chamber at the same time. 

4 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

i drilled out the gas on the BA barrel to .096 with a reamer.

You stated what you sent the gas port to, you stated the gas system length - but you didn't state the barrel length of the new BA barrel, nor the gas block journal diameter...   Need to know the barrel length.  I can guess the journal diameter, because you're re-using that Race Gun adjustable gas block from JP - so, it's probably the same journal as last time, on the Faxon pencil.  Rifle gas, 16"?  Rifle gas 18"?  Rifle gas, 22"?...  no idea.  Dwell time, gas block journal diameter, and a proper recoil system is what makes these things run right, all the time.  Your recoil system is good.  Now, the rest of the details on the BA barrel. 

We'll fix it - need more data. 

[Sparkylr308]

@shooterrex I started all the way closed and worked up from there. Yes one at a time till lock back. Followed JP’s instructions exact. 
 

@98Z5Vits actually one live round and one fired round. Just looks very strange. 
my apologies I thought I had.
BA 20” barrel and .750 journal. 
Faxon- 18” same journal. 

[98Z5V]

18 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

I started all the way closed and worked up from there. Yes one at a time till lock back. Followed JP’s instructions exact. 

It's always best to start an adjustable gas block wide open (no restriction at all) - that way you'll know right away if your gas port diameter is too small, because it won't cycle the action.  The way JP is telling you to do it could potentially waste a bunch of ammo - if the gas port diameter is too small...   Hope that makes sense.

18 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

its actually one live round and one fired round. Just looks very strange. 

That's not a Double Feed, then, it's a Failure to Eject.   Big difference in how you treat both of those, and what you need to diagnose to solve them.   The Failure to Eject is a cycling issue, which makes sense here. 

18 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

BA 20” barrel and .750 journal. 
Faxon- 18” same journal. 

20" barrel, rifle gas system, 0.750" journal, and .308 Win loads.  You'll need something between 0.089" and 0.093" gas port diameter to make it run.  And you're over that now, so it should be working...

#1.  Start that adjustable gas block wide open, despite what the instructions from JP state.  Test it.  See what happens. 

#2.  Start with some factory ammo, on the test.  Eliminate the handloads in the easiest manner possible - with a 20rd box of factory stuff.  Shouldn't matter what kind it is, as long as it's not some super cheap import stuff.  Anything Wal-Mart has on the shelf should work fine for testing. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by 98Z5V

[Sparkylr308]

@98Z5V ok yes that does make sense. Ok I will do that. Any particular brand matter for factory? Is m80 ball ok? Just cheaper hahaha. What is strange is that every so often it’s a failure to eject. Not consistently. Is that caused by a lack of gas in the system? 

[Sparkylr308]

Update: took apart my boat this evening. When I uninstalled the extractor 4 small pieces of metal fell out. They were right by the spring. When I was working up my load I popped (punctured) a couple primers during my ladder test and and another test. So I assume that’s where the metal is from. Could this have caused my failure to extract?

[shooterrex]

Could be the problem. It the pieces were not letting the extractor travel the proper distance. M80 ball should be good to go.

Edited August 24, 2023 by shooterrex

[98Z5V]

3 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

Update: took apart my boat this evening. When I uninstalled the extractor 4 small pieces of metal fell out. They were right by the spring. When I was working up my load I popped (punctured) a couple primers during my ladder test and and another test. So I assume that’s where the metal is from. Could this have caused my failure to extract?

Those are pierced primers - the remnants.  You'll see some of your old brass with holes right in the middle of the primers.  4 of them, at least.  That's usually what happens with a hot load, once you're way up there in charge weight.  From what I've seen myself with that - pierced primer pieces that get blown into your bolt internals will jam up the firing pin, and you'll pull the trigger and nothing happens - the gun doesn't shoot. Sometimes, you'll force the primer pieces out of the way, and it'll go bang, other times, you'll pull the trigger, the hammer falls - and it doesn't go bang.  From what I've seen, I have never had it cause a Failure to Eject.  I could see it causing a Failure to Extract, but that's never happened to me, nor have I seen it on the range. 

What Rex says has definite merit - it could cause that issue.  I just haven't seen it myself, so I can't say that's the issue here.

Now, if your loads were hot, I HAVE seen loads that are flying that BCG back too fast, it's extracting the case too early (load it too hot, brass hasn't cooled enough to extract from the chamber), and the extractor can't hang onto it long enough to reach full ejection.  That might be possible here.  That BCG lost control of the case, slammed back, and started feeding the next round.  While the case that the BCG lost control of is still in there. 

So, we're back to factory ammo, M80 ball should do, but I'd get some .308 Win commercial ammo.  Just one box of 20.  Max that gas block out, load one single round of .308 Win in the mag, yank the trigger - and see if the bolt locks back.  If it does lock back, run the other 19, and see what happens.  Load the mag and run 'em.  Get rid of the whole box of ammo.  That's gonna make some interesting notes here.  

[Sparkylr308]

@shooterrexi was wondering if that could maybe be a possibility. 
 

@98Z5Vi pierced a couple during my initial ladder test. I am not that high up in charge with BL-C(2). Just under middle of published data. The strange thing though is I am getting very fast velocity. The velocity I am getting is the same as hodgons highest load. In the case my BCG is moving too fast. Would turning the gas down help that? Cause that kinda sounds like what is happening. Cause I am getting a live and fired round in the extension trying to feed as seen in the picture. I will give that a try though. 

[shooterrex]

And running factory ammo through it will probably tell you if that is the case.

If it acts right with factory ammo and still messes up with your hand loads its your hand loads.

[Sparkylr308]

@shooterrexyes that makes sense. With my faxon barrel my reloads ran fine. I noticed with this barrel though that it showed some severe pressure signs early on in load development. 

[98Z5V]

7 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

I noticed with this barrel though that it showed some severe pressure signs early on in load development. 

Different dwell time on the two barrel configs.    That 20" has more dwell time, so more time for the gas to act on the BCG. 

[Sparkylr308]

@98Z5V How much of an effect does that have on it? 

[Sparkylr308]

Update: tried factory ammo today. Federal 308 Winchester 180 gr power shock. Gas screw all the way out without removing from gas block body. Still had failures. Pretty much the same failures. Failure to eject. And a stovepipe. But what was interesting with the stovepipe was it had already loaded a round into the chamber. But still had stovepiped in the process.

[shooterrex]

Can you post a pic of your bolt face?

[98Z5V]

We're down to extractor and extractor spring now.  For whatever reason, it's not hanging on to that brass case during ejection.

Time to hit up KAK and get this thing. 

https://kakindustry.com/lr-308-bolt-carrier-group-extractor

 

[98Z5V]

On 8/25/2023 at 12:50 AM, Sparkylr308 said:

@98Z5V How much of an effect does that have on it? 

I could have sworn that I answered this the other night, and I'm not seeing my response.  I'll get on it an answer it again.  It was a long response. 

[98Z5V]

Spark, you know what - hold on before you order any parts.  You went on the high side on the gas port diameter.  And, gas block wide open.  It might be a little hot right now, extracting a little early, and losing control of the case during the ejection cycle. It's extracting - it's getting the case out of the chamber...   It's just not maintaining control of it, until ejection.

Try 2 more shots, and see what happens.  Run that gas block in about 5 clicks, make a shot.  Run it in another 5 after that, make a shot.  Put the results of that up here.

Don't buy that extractor yet.  Let's just see if it's running hot, and that's the issue.   Cutting down the gas will tell us.  What's the total adjustment range on that gas block, from fully closed, to wide open?

Edited August 31, 2023 by 98Z5V

[Sparkylr308]

@shooterrexyes I will post when I get a chance. 
 

@98Z5V it is a set screw. So I am not exactly sure what the range would be. But it’s a decent amount of adjustments. The screw is around 1/8 to 3/16in length if I had to guess. tried that today when I was at the range. I started with it basically out without removing. I then for the heck of it turned the screw in about 6-7ish turns and tried that and same deal. It was failing to eject but in a strange way. It is trying to pick up another round. It even successfully put a round into the chamber before stovepiping. The extractor is from JP. I swapped it a while back. I had tried working up from no gas to little gas at initially during my first tests with the new barrel. It was strange. It would cycle several rounds and then fail to eject the round successfully trapping it in upper.

[98Z5V]

Very well might be in the ejector then - I know why Rex was asking for the pics of your bolt face. 

Try this, without breaking down the bolt.  Don't even need to remove it from the BCG.  Trap the rim of a spent piece of brass with the lip/claw of the extractor, and bend that piece of brass over to cycle the ejector.  Just see if it's smooth, or if it hangs up (or isn't smooth).  Test that, to make sure there aren't any tiny pieces of brass hanging the ejector up in it's travel.

[Sparkylr308]

@98Z5Vok I will try that. I gave it a good cleaning the other day after I kept getting failures. Figured that might help? And pulled the bolt apart and cleaned the extractor and ejectors well. Made sure nothing was stuck in the ports for the ejectors and springs. 

[shooterrex]

Get it working  only loading 1 round in the magazine first and locking back on an empty magazine.  Then let's work on the other issues.

[Sparkylr308]

@shooterrexinam hoping to find time to go to the range again soon. But I got it to lock back when only 1 in the mag but as soon as there was two, that’s when the issues arose. 

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, Sparkylr308 said:

@shooterrexinam hoping to find time to go to the range again soon. But I got it to lock back when only 1 in the mag but as soon as there was two, that’s when the issues arose. 

Now we're getting to the request for the pics of that bolt face, and looking for a square face on that ejector.  First round feeds from the left, second round feeds from the right.  Square faced ejectors can cause issues on the rounds fed from the right side of the magazine.

That typically causes feeding problems, and usually not ejection problems.  However, let's fix everything we can fix.