jujubeez Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Greetings!I been searching high and low for a company or a maker who can build me a 10.5"-12" (haven't decided yet on size) .308 (7.62x51) pistol/sbr upper that is compatible with DPMS lower. And it would help if it was reliable =). I know I could buy short barreled .308 uppers from noveske, lwrc, and pof but I am building mine out of an 80% TM lower for this and none of those uppers are compatible. I am also not experienced enough or have tools to build one myself. I suppose I can get a gunsmith to cut me a .308 barrel. But the one's I asked said they wouldn't know where to get the gas length or whatever specifications for a barrel that short. Any help/info on where to buy one or build one - 7.62x51 pistol/sbr upper is greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance-J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Haven't seen any off the shelf DPMS based .308 SBR uppers, But all it would take would be for you to use a DPMS upper along with a Noveske Leonidas barrel and Armalite BCG. If you could find out the gas port location and port size for one of the established SBR uppers you could probably have a barrel made, but that sounds like it would probably cost more than just buying the Noveske barrel, (if available). The upper doesn't care what barrel or BCG you use. I'd think that anyone that is capable of assembling an AR upper could do it for you. it might take some buffer/spring fine tuning to get reliable function but that shouldn't be too difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Shouldn't be too hard to build.I was at the range last summer and a guy had one with a 10.5" barrel , it was a real flame thrower and very loud. I'm not too sure how practical it would be over a sbr at 14.5" except your not paying for a tax stamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I would have to agree. I've got a 14.5" .308 AR and find that the handling is very good, as well as the accuracy, but it makes a pretty good fireball when fired. I would consider that to be wasted powder, and figure that a 16" would better match the .308 cartridge. I'm sure there's applicaions where the reduced size of the SBR are advantages, but if your not getting the ballistic performance out of the rd, then, a smaller cartridge like 300BLK might be more efficient. I'm thinking that a suppresed 300BLK SBR is going to by a more useful tool than a suppressed .308 AR SBR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujubeez Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 thanks for your reply guys. well, the maker doesn't have to be someone like rra, lmt, noveske, or any other big name. it could be just any custom shop, to bad i don't know of any who would do a 10.5" 7.62x51. I also thought of going with the 300blacbkout but i've read and heard on some forums that even at 10.5 the 7.62x51 outperforms the blackout. but then that might be personal opinion. and believe it or not, and as silly as some people think, i don't like supressed weapons. so not sure how useful a 300 blackout would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Welcome from Indiana brother jujubeez.http://ar15barrels.com/index.html These guys do some barrel work not sure if it will help.300 Blkout has some impressive numbers,some of the guys here have put together some relly nice rifles here in that caliber.You can find them on this form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Helotes Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 thanks for your reply guys. well, the maker doesn't have to be someone like rra, lmt, noveske, or any other big name. it could be just any custom shop, to bad i don't know of any who would do a 10.5" 7.62x51. I also thought of going with the 300blacbkout but i've read and heard on some forums that even at 10.5 the 7.62x51 outperforms the blackout. but then that might be personal opinion. and believe it or not, and as silly as some people think, i don't like supressed weapons. so not sure how useful a 300 blackout would be.If you want 30 cal but better than 300BO look at the 30HRT. I have one and it will do all the things a BO will do but it have better supersonic numbers. Plus a AR15 platform would be much lighter in weight and cheaper in cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 +1 for team H!!!!! My wife and I both have 3hrt's, and they are GREAT!!!! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujubeez Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 What caliber is the 30 HRT? Is that the same thing as the 6.8?I'm still learning as you can tell =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Helotes Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 What caliber is the 30 HRT? Is that the same thing as the 6.8?I'm still learning as you can tell =)6.8 brass cut down and sized to 30 cal with off the shelf 30 Herrett dies. Very easy to make brass and it is a very good shooting round. Only down side is you have to hand load there is no factory ammo for it, but none of my ARs have ever seen factory ammo anyway.http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=647http://ar15barrels.com/prod/30hrt.shtmlhttp://www.teppojutsu.com/Whats_New.htmHere is 200 yards out of a 12" barrel with 150gr FMJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 prehaps you could give some further (first hand)information on the 30HRT? I have done some load developement on 300BLK, and although I like the commonality of parts that it shares with the .223, it certainly doesn't have as good performance at long range as I might like. Before going with the .308, I had looked into the 6.8 SPC. I liked the idea of a more powerful cartridge than .223 while still retaining the light weight of the small platform AR. The things that I read that didn't sound so good were that there were bolt life issues, and that there were reliability issues because of the proprietary mags needed. Obviously, the ability to use off the shelf AR 15 parts is an undeniably attractive advantage of the 300BLK. I also remember that it was going to cost a good deal more to load for 6.8 than to load 300BLK. If I disregard the economic advantages of shooting 300BLK, could you share your experience with the 30HRT, with regards to accuracy/range, reliability, feeding, bolt life ? I have heard from some people that the smaller caliber bullets are inherently more accurate, and that is one of their reasons for goig with the 6.5 and .260 cal bullets, but I find that I prefer a .30 cal bullet. How do you find the performance/accuracy of the HRT as compared to the 6.8 SPC ? And finally, what mags do you find to be the best, and how many rds of 30HRT fit in the mag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 My 30HRT's are loaded to rifle pressures, not the pistol pressures of the 30 Herrett. As such, they are signifacntly over what "the book" call for. That being said, the load I'm currently using pushes the 125ge Nosler A-Max hunting bullett right at 2,600 fps, and is safe in both my wife's gun, and in mine. I reloaded the same cases with this hot load over 7 times, each. The 30 HRT uses standard 6.8 bolts and mags, and mag capacity is the same as the 6.8. IE, 10 rds in a 10rd mag, 20 rds in a 20 rd mag. To me, its the "super" ctg for the ar15. Respectfully Terry Added: This load is several hundred feet per second faster than my "most accurate" load. It shoots 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 groups. I don't care. Its a hunting gun, not a "range princess". T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujubeez Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 wow that's impressive!I wish I knew anything about reloading lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'm probably just looking for that mythical "perfect" do everything rd for the small platform AR (and for the large platform AR for that matter also). I had assumed that with the larger cartridge base, the 30HRT would substantially out perform the 300BLK. I based this assumtion on the performance I've seen reported for the 6.8 SPC. I guess the reason the SPC outperforms the 300 is because of the smaller cal bullet. I don't know how many gr of powder your able to fit in the 30HRT case, but I'm presently getting 2,600fps with my 125 and 135gr bullets from my 300BLK loads, of course tha's out of an 18" barrel. Would it be logical to assume that ballistically, since we're both getting similar muzzle velocity from equal weight bullets, I could expect a 30HRT AR to have similar ballistic results as I'm getting from my 300BLK? In order to achieve the results that I have, I've got my cases filled as much as is possible, theres no way I can get any more performance out of my 300. I have been giving some thought to the idea of trying one of Wilson's 7.62 X40 barrels just to see what I could get out of it if i had that extra .200" of case length to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Helotes Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Here is the load data from Accurate.Caliber: .30 HRT. (30 Herret Rimless) Barrel length: 16”Powder: Accurate – 5744®.Bullet weight: 125-130 grains. Start load: 18.7 grains (ca 1850 Fps)Maximum load: 20.8 grains (ca 2025 Fps) LD ca 78%Bullet weight: 150-155 grains. Start load: 17.2 grains (ca 1725 Fps)Maximum load: 19.2 grains (ca 1875 Fps) LD ca 74%. Bullet weight: 165 grains. Start load: 16.0 grains (ca 1600 Fps)Maximum load: 18.0 grains (ca 1775 Fps) LD ca 72% Powder: Accurate – 1680®.Bullet weight: 125-130 grains. Start load: 22.8 grains (ca 2200 Fps)Maximum load: 25.3 grains (ca 2200 Fps) LD ca 84%Bullet weight: 150-155 grains. Start load: 20.7 grains (ca 1800 Fps)Maximum load: 23.0 grains (ca 2000 Fps) LD ca 81%. Bullet weight: 165-168 grains. Start load: 19.3 grains (ca 1700 Fps)Maximum load: 21.5 grains (ca 1875 Fps) LD ca 80% Powder: Accurate – 2200®.Bullet weight: 125-130 grains. Start load: 25.2 grains (ca 2075 Fps)Maximum load: 28.0grains (ca 2250 Fps) LD ca 91%Bullet weight: 150-155 grains. Start load: 23.4 grains (ca 1800 Fps)Maximum load: 26.0 grains (ca 2075 Fps) LD ca 89%. Bullet weight: 165-168 grains. Start load: 21.7 grains (ca 1750 Fps)Maximum load: 24.2 grains (ca 2000 Fps) LD ca 87% Powder: Accurate – 2230®.Bullet weight: 125-130 grains. Start load: 28.8 grains (ca 2050 Fps)Maximum load: 32.0 grains (ca 2300 Fps) LD ca 102%Bullet weight: 150-155 grains. Start load: 26.5 grains (ca 1875 Fps)Maximum load: 29.5 grains (ca 2150 Fps) LD ca 101%. Bullet weight: 165-168 grains. Start load: 24.3 grains (ca 1700 Fps)Maximum load: 27.0 grains (ca 2000 Fps) LD ca 101% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Helotes Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I have been loading 24 grains of 2200 with 150gr FMJ. I have been having good luck with this load. I do not have a way to get the FPS.I run these 15 rd mags. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/516192/ar-stoner-magazine-ar-15-68mm-remington-spc-17-round-straight-body-with-anti-tilt-follower-stainless-steel-black?cm_vc=wishListI have about 500-600 rounds through my 30HRT with not trouble.I also have a 6.8 with over 1000 rounds with no bolt trouble. I like both rounds. When hunting from a blind I grab the 6.8 with a 16" barrel. If I am out walking or up close, I use the 30HRT with a 12" barrel. 6.8 brass is not cheap, but it is way cheaper than my 458SOCOM brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Helotes Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I have an 18 page PDF with load data for the 30HRT that, Marty the creator of the 30HRT, sent me.If you guys want the PDF shoot me an email asking for it.teamhelotes@satx.rr.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I could get more powder in, but why? 2,600 with the 125 was my goal,and when I reached it, I quit. Next is a 150 old style nosler. I hope to get 2.300-2,400FPS. The 308 (7.62X51) was designed for a 150 at 2,700 . Just how fast do you think a smaller capacity case can go?LOL!!! I can almost guarantee that your 300 BLK is operating at higher pressure than my 30 HRT. LOL!!! New powders developed since the 80's have helped the smaller cases really reach full potential. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 It sounds like your not pushing the 30 to the limit as i am with the 300 to get to 2,600 fps. I KNOW there's no way I could get 24gr of powder in my 300 cases. The reason I originally started load developement with the 300 was to try to make major power factor for 3 gun shooting. I was also trying to see if I could improve the trajectory and get it to shoot flatter. Since my results are with an 18" barrel, and your's are with a 16" (or shorter) I'm thinking that the 30HRT has the potential to surpase the 300, wonder why no one is using the 30HRT in 3gun competition? Team H, you say that your 6.8 has a 16" barrel, what do you consider the effective range of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Helotes Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 The place I go is a max shot of about 175 yerds. I know a bunch of people are using the 6.8 out to 300 yards. I do not like to shoot out that far for hunting. A buddy has a plce that reaches out to 700 yards and I have rang steel plates on 400 yards with the 6.8 all the time. I have even rang it with the 30 HRT at 300. I have not taking the 30 HRT out farther because it only has a 1.25-4 Leupold on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Since I just built the two 30 HRT's this year, My wife and I haven't taken any deer, yet! Oct. will soon be here, and with it, deer season! Based on my experience with the rimmed 30 Herrett and deer, 25.5 gr of Rl 7 with a 125gr Nosler , Things should be just fine! That load chronos at just over 2,000 fps from a 15" Contender. I have a spot that I sit on, the range is 117yds, that I shot 4 deer in 5 years off of. They all fell withen a 6' circle of one another..LOL!! As a long time reloader, I like the fact that I don't have to load it pedal to the metal to get the preformence I want. To me, the 30 HRT is a vastly under utalised, and under prometed Ctg. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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