bfoosh006

Lol... we've all had a Dooh ! moment .

I have NEVER said you are noob at any of this... everyone here knows that. You don't have to knock others experience.. yet you do, if they don't 100% agree with you... that is not how this works. I do have some experience in the various nuisances in PSA's large frames. I have NEVER said "I know it all" about the other platforms, go ahead and check my past threads.... and Frankly this forum has helped me learn about the variety. Blinded by the issues with PSA large frame firearms ?... yeah my whole first threads were about what I did to help "fix" mine... nice try to "prove you are right again" I am saying the PSA's work fine with the gas tube length they are using. Again the Ford v. Chevy thing.. that isn't just lucky. I also want Gophers AR to work. Without having your upper in hand , I still am very curious as to why it fails to feed... obviously it cycles.. but is not being allowed to fully cycle. With THAT said... I am sure 98Z5V will do everything in his power to ( A. prove me wrong , Lol ) and B. get your PSA to run. Gopher, have you contacted PSA about your firearm? At this point I am not sure any more. And honestly, I will apologize, to you for having been involved in making such a needless poop storm over your thread. And Gopher... just to be perfectly clear, and I couldn't quite tell... I am not a representative for PSA, I am a guy that bought an affordable PSA and made it work the way I wanted. I will follow this thread, and 98Z5V, please just leave your bickering with me out of it. Your constant tit for tat is getting you exactly what you want. I see no reason to allow you to dictate to other posters what input they have about a design that does work. Do not expect me to stand off to the side lines and take your crap... no more then you would. I have FN barrel'd , Criterion barrel'd, BA barrel'd and PSA barrel'd PSA brand uppers that all have ( most likely, and I have never bothered to measure the gas port size, because I have never had an issue ) different sized gas ports , with various barrel lengths that all function reliably with PSA's gas tube length... that is what I am basing my "the gas tube length is fine" on the PSA comments on. I suggest, that chasing down that rabbit hole... will not fix Gophers issue. Especially since a change to a Armalite recoil system didn't fix it. 98Z5V has proven numerous times, the advantages to the Armalite buffer system. All My , "lucky" they run PSA's have proven to be VERY tolerant of alterations to the buffer system weights and still run with the available gas from the PSA system. I would like to see the top of the gas tube... I wonder if it is "camming" the BCG some how... just a thought . I will watch with quite a bit of curiosity as to what unfolds. I do wish 98Z5V all the good luck in the world, that is something easily fixed. And BTW, I checked all my various uppers.. none show those odd nicks on the bolt carrier cam pin area... none are galling into the upper receiver like yours... I say that not to show how "lucky" I am with mine.. but because I think your upper / BCG is out of PSA's spec. some how.

Yup... they all still run. Thanks for confirming my points. PSA's are known for weak gas ... Lol I am done with your crap... Thanks again

Got it... I was right in the beginning... it wasn't the gas system. It was the scuffed marks I pointed out earlier in this very thread. While you were hung up on the gas tube length... I patiently tried to point out that probably wasn't it... instead it is the scuff marks ... "Brother" it is ok to have some one help out as well... instead of spending so much time slamming PSA's proprietary system... right or wrong the PSA proprietary system does work. My lame ass observations are just a "valid" as yours. The fact is... PSA is a different pattern,... just like DPMS and Armalite are. I appreciate your input. really I do... but I can't believe the consistent PSA bashing... the darned things do work, and many of my findings and others , have proved it. Just because I don't agree with your comparison of various parts .. and am pointing out the opposing view... you freak out. You can save that for others. You have a thing against PSA 308 AR's , I don't know why. They do work... are they the best 308 AR ever ? nah... but they can easily be fixed. ( Not this one ... but everyone here knows what I mean. ) Maybe... it isn't just a DPMS pattern v. a Armalite Pattern... maybe, just maybe... PSA has a pattern as well... even if no one else uses it. Deal with it. No problem... PSA did have teething issues.... there is no denying that, they also have been working to fix it. IMHO... that upper is outta spec... and should be returned to PSA.. not just to replace it, but to help figure out where they went wrong. For the time being, I am debating just moving on from this forum ( that comment is for those that give a sh-t , if there are any of you all ) I do feel like my input in this specific thread was not meant to be combative but more to help fix and learn what went wrong... right up until 98Z5V personally decided my responses were lame ass. I mean , what the he-l do I know about PSA 308AR's... my experience with them clearly means sh-t to many... but I am not going to stand around listening to parts comparisons making PSA's way of doing things is crap, because it isn't like some other manufacturer. That is nonsense. Ford v. Chevy v. Dodge... anyone of those guys make the perfect truck ? 98Z5V.... do you even own a PSA 308 sized AR ?... I am pretty sure you don't... and that is your choice, however many people do.... and my sharing my learned knowledge isn't a bad thing in my eyes. While many here obviously consider them sub-par... ( clearly, Washguy ) many folks have been able to turn them into very inexpensive useful firearms... they aren't perfect and neither are most .308AR's....unless you can afford to really pay for it.... for the most part .. any issues with PSA 308's have revolved around recoil issues ( and Thank you to 98Z5V for all his input on that subject ) use of the wrong mismatched parts in the buffer system, and being over gassed , and feeding issues from any combination of those issues.... all of those issues can be fixed very easily. That has been proven. I think it is safe to say PSA is not intentionally sending out mismatched parts... I still believe any pissed off assembly guy can intentionally do it. So, the foundation is GTG ( as long as you use PSA pattern parts..just like if you had to use Armalite patterns ) .. and affordable... for us mere working men. While this post might be long winded... it might also be my last, so I wanted to get in my 2 cents prior to being exiled by 98Z5V and the other PSA haters ( Washguy was just so "ready" to add his snide comments as well ) Washguy have you fired a current production PSA 308 AR ? ... if so... would any of the suggestions I have posted help such claimed junk ? ....Ask that to the guy that bought it.. Why, why did you buy such junk ? ... and when you do use some of my fixes, for his rifle.. just remember me. Like it or not, PSA's are a valuable asset to the AR market. I will continue to pursue tinkering with my affordable AR's ... and enjoy shooting them for decades to come. BTW, my last PSA 20"HBAR 6.5CM shot great out to 1300yds, any misses were me.. not the rifle...... yeah, junk .. pure junk... I will check back later for any messages... the needless ones ( certainly from some specific folks ) will just be deleted.. so , Lol ... don't even bother. ( just saving those guys some time. ) BTW... if this helps Gopher's firearm... here are photos from a brand new PSA GenII upper taken at the point in question... Yup, same damned short as- gas tube.

OUCH something is out of spec there... NONE of my bolt carrier show that kind of nonsense at the cam cutout . I am gonna go try to take some photos of the interior of one of my PSA uppers and of the cam cutout on the carrier.

" It's completely proprietary, just in frame dimensions. ".... PSA 's ARE completely proprietary !! It has been sadly proven PSA has not used anyone else's complete pattern... it is more like a miss mash and having been designed around the Magpul mag than anyone else's pattern. And adjusted the dimensions just enough so as not to "copy" anyone else's design... And PSA has been sayin' it all along ... "only use PSA parts." And Brother.... the observations you have seen so far ain't nothing.. check the proprietary picatinny rail height on the upper receiver.. not DPMS low tang, not DPMS high tang... PSA / JL Billet height proprietary tang...with a DPMS barrel nut.... you won't find a common manufacturer , after market FF tube picatinny rail height that matches PSA's. PSA could have easily made the uppers rail height match high tang DPMS... instead it is PSA proprietary... Lol... I am beginning to think we need a 3rd "common" pattern... DPMS, Armalite, and PSA

Lol... calling some one a fanboy... err... coming from the Armalite Fanboy ! ?

" and there's some silver aluminum there - I don't think I did that." You didn't do it, that is from the OEM PSA firearm... the paddle top would smack the upper when firing , I ground away some of the inside top on mine to prevent that. FWIW ...My original posts address that. Wait... that is Gophers Bolt Catch ? "This is what your bolt catch looks like, though... you can see that it's already raised - it's not flat against the lower shelf, at rest.." The one in your photo isn't even close to every PSA Bolt catch I have.. installed, spare NOS etc... The photos show the wildly different BC style ... again PSA proprietary PSA with its wider nub v. KAK / AERO style BC... PSA on top KAK no bottom...

Lol... I hear ya... but PSA does a lot of "different" things... so for me and mine, IMHO it is a Ford V. Chevy kind of thing. And... at the risk of being a PITA... all mine ran in OEM condition ( albeit, over gassed and seriously fast cyclic speed ) ... so yea, the parts do function... is there most likely a better mouse trap... heck yea. But not in the PSA price range. Interesting on the gas tube to barrel nut position... mine have all been FF'd so no USGI style barrel nut. If you measure the picatinny rail height, from the bottom of the uppers barrel "hole......and compared to a DPMS upper and Aero...( etc ) ....You are gonna find PSA has a completely different height there as well... that's why no after market FF handguards picatinny rails match the PSA's upper picatinny rail height.... No DPMS high tang / low tang/ ODIN works. after market FF tube.. will match the PSA uppers picatinny rail height. Only the PSA / JL Billet made ones will

PSA has a bolt catch unlike anyone else's... believe me, I have checked... the nub that engages on the rear of mag follower is huge compared to everyone elses... and If memory serves me right... the pivot pin hole is in a slightly different position. "Troubles closing and pinning the receivers unless you kicked that thing outta the way a little? " ... never had that issue with any of my 6 complete Gen 2 PSA large frame AR's

That gas port size is in line with my PSA's....

In for the review !

Tenacity... I hear ya... I went through the same thing with my first PSA's

Agreed... I would like to know if PSA has changed its "normal" 0versized gas ports... but my April manufactured ones ( rifle length gas ) still had ample gas flow. Enough that I still installed all the fix the " overgassed " issue parts. And... all the PSA's ran in OEM configuration... and were "overgassed" What are your thoughts on that "peened" area in Gophers upper ?

Lol.... and YES Sticky.... 1., So I can readily find it for reference ! ... and, ... 2 so us gunny folk can keep adding our measurements from the various BCG's

Yeah... there is a LOT of rebranding amongst the manufacturers. Upper completely assembled.... one heavy, fat ass upper... Vortex Golden Eagle HD 15-60x52 ( ECR-1 Reticle (MOA) I am going to try out... I know , I know.... way to much scope then needed... but I have always been curious. I will weigh it later... with and with out the scope, and as a fully assembled ( my way ) rifle.... seriously, this thing is frigging heavy ( heavy enough to be not practical to even use as a club ! Lol )

I fully agree that needs to be a sticky... I love that thread. I added my PSA measurements in page 4.. Jan 7th , after reading it.

I had always wanted a .308 AR... just to see if it stacked up against the M21... ( which they do, and are easier to fuss over and remain accurate for longer periods between cleaning ) And that lead to a 6.5CM... and different barrel lengths and brands in the ever growing clan.... It is a hobby that will suck your bank accounts dry.... Lol

AND this ! Time for a third safe !

Lol !!!

These are the peen marks I am concerned with....that is not normal. And could be the source of the BCG not seating 100% correctly So ... More photos please , Gopher .

Respectfully.... I am familiar enough with AR's not to need to go and look... Lol ( I can visualize it even now, and am confident I could completely assemble one with my eyes closed except maybe the safety spring and rear pin spring ) Gophers first image in this thread shows some incorrect damage right at the cam key slot edges in the internal of the upper... and the BCG should show damage as well... at those contact points So, I would focus on that... and no offense, but not the short gas tube question. The damage appears to be peen'ed /hammered in...so something is wrong right there. I am not sure what would have enough of a twisting force to cause so much wear from so few a rounds... I would also love to have the upper in my hands to further examine. And again, "correct" or not ... mine still function fine with a short gas tube. All I am saying is the short distance from the gas tube into the PSA large frames has made no discernible function issues for me and mine. So, clearly it is working for all my 18", 20", and 22"uppers and 12.5" I helped my friend build. I AM curious what effect a slightly longer gas tube would produce v. a shorter one. Again especially since mine function very well even with my added limited gas flow. I suspect the difference would be slight since there is such a large volume of gas from a .308 sized cartridge. And after very closely following a crap load of PSA large frame threads... the shorter gas tube has never really been an issue. And if it was.. we would see far more of it posted here and elsewhere. FAR more.... so again "correct" or not it does work. I am still guessing ( since I haven't been able to look at it in hand ) Gophers AR has a gas leak some where... or it is dragging the BCG some how, and not allowing proper feeding. I base that on his comments, and it won't seat the bolt on a freshly fed cartridge. Personally, I would take the Monarch ammo out of the equation. ( and the ASC mag ) And try some XM80 first with the magpul mag. It clearly has enough gas to grab the following round... but somehow it isn't being allowed to seat the BCG. All the more reason I would love to see what is causing that peening. It might be a flaw in so many things.... at the vary least the burr needs to be removed from the carrier race way... it might have been left over from the incorrect recoil spring and buffer slamming around. .. Or it might be a out of spec BCG / incompletely milled upper receiver. Anyhow, those peened spots in the upper are most likely the first part of a trail leading to the issue. I would like to see even more photos of the peened area and photos of the BCG contact area. 98Z5V... I would love to get together and spend hours discussing our collective observations and experiences... I am sure you and I could ramble and chatter over the most odd AR issues .

Sure plenty of 5.56's, but again,... my Large Frame AR's all have had no issues function wise, except for being terribly overgassed. And they all run with that same short gas tube length into the receiver. I am still betting it is a loose gas fitting.

@98Z5V I should also add... PSA's are my only .308 AR framed firearms... and with them all running fine in OEM form ( granted, overgassed ) ... I really never gave it any extra thought, apart from "wow, the gas tube on a .308 AR doesn't go very far into the gas key... oh well , off to address the over gassed aspect" Now you have me wondering....

@98Z5V I gotta say.... All my PSA's are like this, .308 and 6.5CM ( 8 in total... and they all run fine. Even prior to my adding Adj. GB's ( tuned 5-6 clicks open of the available 15 being wide open ) , heavy ass buffers and Tubbs .308 recoil springs.... And with a variety of BCG's... AIM, Toolcraft, PSA ( Big diameter FP, Small diameter FP, dual ejector, and the current .070 diameter FP ) and one more brand that I can't seem to remember. ( FOR THE LIFE OF ME , lol ) So, I suspect there is something else going on with Gophers PSA . Then the gas tube length. I wonder if the gas key is loose and causing binding and / or short stroking. And just because mine all came that way.... that doesn't mean it is correct.... but, Mine have all functioned properly as they came from PSA ( albeit overgassed ) and after I did my "overgassed" corrections they only ran smoother. Lol, maybe "Ignorance is Bliss" on my part. Perhaps Gophers is like this one... ( to short ) https://forum.308ar.com/topic/11808-a-word-to-the-wise-about-the-palmetto-state-armory-pa-10/