Hi.

[98Z5V]

8 hours ago, UnofficialReality said:

But then what about length of pull?  If I am running the stock out all the way and my eye relief window is such that I have to have the optic that specific amount from my eye putting the optic so far forward seems...odd.  As it is now I had to offset the scope in the mount the most rearward that it would go and it is still about an inch further away than it was before even with the mount as rearward as I can go.  My understanding is that when you have the rifle shouldered (low ready) and bring it up to fire you want to be able to repeatedly swing it up into eye relief and not have to hunt for your sight picture.  No?

 

Also I asked above about the Jard trigger you ran...was it the adjustable?  If it was did you find it finicky/fiddly to adjust?  I would be curious to hear more about the process you went through to set the trigger up.

First, for the stock run all the way out, and your current scope position,...   - You're doing something fundamentally, really wrong.  No joke, no kidding, sign up for and get to an Appleseed Shoot.  If you're like me, it's way too late to enlist in the Army, and learn proper shooting form.  Ever hear of "Nose-To-Charging Handle?"

Whatever you're doing, if you have to have your rifle set up like that just to shoot, it's something very unorthodox.

My Jard was an adjustable, set at 2.0 lbs.  It always runs great, so I never had to mess with any adjustments on it.

However, it would adjust the same way as a Geissele Hi-Speed trigger.  Check out the Geissele instructions on their website, and it should help you.

[UnofficialReality]

8 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

First, for the stock run all the way out, and your current scope position,...   - You're doing something fundamentally, really wrong.  No joke, no kidding, sign up for and get to an Appleseed Shoot.  If you're like me, it's way too late to enlist in the Army, and learn proper shooting form.  Ever hear of "Nose-To-Charging Handle?"

Whatever you're doing, if you have to have your rifle set up like that just to shoot, it's something very unorthodox.

My Jard was an adjustable, set at 2.0 lbs.  It always runs great, so I never had to mess with any adjustments on it.

However, it would adjust the same way as a Geissele Hi-Speed trigger.  Check out the Geissele instructions on their website, and it should help you.

With the stock all the way out or one click in when I shoulder the rifle and bring it up from low ready I push right up into a proper cheek weld on the riser and right into proper eye relief.  I'm not reaching excessively for or aft for the trigger.  I don't see how much better it can get than that.  It certainly doesn't seem very unorthodox.  What exactly is unorthodox about that?  Are you a small man by chance?  Or have short arms?

And yes I referenced NTCH earlier.  I've tried it, but have very rarely shot that way but rather at full out or one position in.  The LOP with NTCH seemed way too short and scrunched up and I am not running iron sights or an Acog with 1.5" of eye relief...which was one of the reasons it was trained.  NTCH was also an index point for repeatability when bringing the rifle up to fire.  For you to say I am doing something fundamentally "really wrong" seems a bit odd.  Just as some have been trained for NTCH others have been trained to run a longer pull for various reasons.  I have seen people much smaller than I run almost or all the way out as well.  I don't think it is a revelation.  Some example:

 

 

As for your Jard adjustable set at 2 pounds...I wasn't talking about pull weight (which you don't adjust so much as you just swap springs), I was talking about sear engagement, overtravel, and safety engagement.  But you say you never messed with it which seems odd to me.  You bought an adjustable trigger and never adjusted it?  You don't know what you are missing, you should try it.  I wasn't asking how to adjust my trigger as I have already done so multiple times, but I have hardly found anyone who ran one and was just curious how you set yours...that's all.  I looked at that high-speed nm you referenced...certainly looks like a nice trigger.  Looks like the set screws are better than mine too....of course it is twice the price so I don't feel too bad haha.

[98Z5V]

16 hours ago, UnofficialReality said:

With the stock all the way out or one click in when I shoulder the rifle and bring it up from low ready I push right up into a proper cheek weld on the riser and right into proper eye relief.  I'm not reaching excessively for or aft for the trigger.  I don't see how much better it can get than that.  It certainly doesn't seem very unorthodox.  What exactly is unorthodox about that?  Are you a small man by chance?  Or have short arms?

And yes I referenced NTCH earlier.  I've tried it, but have very rarely shot that way but rather at full out or one position in.  The LOP with NTCH seemed way too short and scrunched up and I am not running iron sights or an Acog with 1.5" of eye relief...which was one of the reasons it was trained.  NTCH was also an index point for repeatability when bringing the rifle up to fire.  For you to say I am doing something fundamentally "really wrong" seems a bit odd.  Just as some have been trained for NTCH others have been trained to run a longer pull for various reasons.  I have seen people much smaller than I run almost or all the way out as well.  I don't think it is a revelation.  Some example:

 

 

As for your Jard adjustable set at 2 pounds...I wasn't talking about pull weight (which you don't adjust so much as you just swap springs), I was talking about sear engagement, overtravel, and safety engagement.  But you say you never messed with it which seems odd to me.  You bought an adjustable trigger and never adjusted it?  You don't know what you are missing, you should try it.  I wasn't asking how to adjust my trigger as I have already done so multiple times, but I have hardly found anyone who ran one and was just curious how you set yours...that's all.  I looked at that high-speed nm you referenced...certainly looks like a nice trigger.  Looks like the set screws are better than mine too....of course it is twice the price so I don't feel too bad haha.

#1.  That's bullshiit - ACOGs weren't even a dream when I went through Basic.  Nothing but irons.  To say that is one of the reasons NTCH is trainined is way off base...

#2.  Never needed to adjust it, for any engagement adjustments, and the pull is perfect.  Believe me, I adjust ALL my Geissele Hi-Speed triggers (one DMR and two National Match). I've adjusted both my Elftmann trigger, and adjust them for others ("fixed" Eltfmanns for others here...).  When I tell you I didn't need to make ANY adjustments on my Jard, I mean it.  I'm not "missing" anything you're referring to. 

You seem to have all the answers, so enjoy your backwards scope mount.  If you HAVE to have your scope mount literally backwards, to make those scope's eye relief work for you, then you ARE doing something wrong, in your body position.  Seems to be working for you, backwards, though, so drive on. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by 98Z5V

[UnofficialReality]

Well, back to getting info on reloading.  Should be fun!

[jtallen83]

48 minutes ago, UnofficialReality said:

Well, back to getting info on reloading.  Should be fun!

Reloading section is jam packed with info, enjoy!

[edgecrusher]

I have locked and cleaned this up for prosperity of the forum. I went off the tracks and became unproductive.