Mike Tucson Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 (edited) Hi everyone! First off, it's pretty cool that there is a forum dedicated specifically to the .308 AR platform! I talk on other forums, but specific platform discussions are hit and miss. To boot, most of my buddies using larger calibers than 5.56 or .300 blk are running bolt action rifles. I am one to research the hell out of things before I buy. I have decided on to finally go for it and get myself a "starter" AR10 in .308. I am going with a Palmetto State Armory Gen 3 set up to figure out what I like and don't like before I go for a true build from higher-end companies. I have heard nothing but good things about the PSA Gen3 AR10 as a good starter and a couple of my AR-15 based rifles are from PSA and perform damn close to, if not on par, with some of my upper echelon builds, so I am confident in PSAs product. I have plenty of experience with the AR/M4 itself and have but I am finally going for my first AR10. I've shot most calibers out there, but the closest to the .308 I've gotten is the 30-06. I'll cut to the chase with a multipart question. First question: I see PSA (and many other manufacturers) offering Stainless Steel barrels, with the promise of better accuracy as the main seller. The good ol' CMV/CM barrel has never failed to perform down range, or in any other situation. For only a bit more on price, I can get a Stainless Steel barrel, over the CM w/nitride finish. Does anyone have experience with the SS vs CM(V) barrels on a .308 AR and is there really much of a difference in performance? I am looking at an 18" to get optimal power burn while maintaining portability. Also, I am not looking to pick off a flee on a camel's back at 600 yds in a high stress environment, just good solid performance in the 200 to 600 yard range. Next part. I have also noticed a lot of manufacturers offering Mid-length gas systems vs Rifle-length. I know RL will help minimize recoil and wear-and-tear, but with adjustable gas-blocks, is a ML gas system good or should I go for a RL? Also, I am not sure why, but PSA is offering a 5 position click switch and 3 position click switch gas block. It seems like most of the more expensive uppers from PSA are running the 3 position AGB. I don't have any experience with AGBs, so is there much of a difference and which is better? Thats about it for now. I have grain weight, ballistics and scope questions, but I'll save those for another time. Any help/guidance would be much appreciated. Cheers! Mike "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time." - Gen. George S. Patton Edited July 1 by Mike Tucson correct mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 Welcome to the forum @Mike Tucson PSA is good at making most AR-15 variants. I have purchased a bunch from them. Their large frame ARs are not always as reliable. The reason they have AGB is because they use inferior carbine recoil components and have a small gas port. A properly balanced gas system and recoil system should not need an adjustable gas block unless you shoot suppressed. There are many threads in the PSA section of the forum that go over the issues commonly observed and the fixes that are needed for them. Look there before making a decision. Not all PA10s need help to run, but we can help get in running correctly if you go that way. As to your question of rifle vs. mid-length gas system, I have used both. As long as the gas to cycle the gun balances the proper recoil system, there has been little difference in my experience. Others may other other views. I can offer no input on SS barrels. As an aside, DPMS is now owned by the same company as PSA. New 308ar rifles are likely to be the same as PA10s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 If you buy the rifle stocked one and not the carbine stocked one you will probably have a gun that runs. My first one was a rifled stock one and it functions well. The carbine stocked ones is where they cut corners on parts. Welcome from Ky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 My thoughts- he's decided, already. Let's just buy this thing, run it, and find out what happens. If it's good - great news on the actual PSA Part Number that he bought - WHEN they assembled it ON that day. Only, On That Day... If it's off - we fix it. I'm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbird Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 I HAVE a PSA Gen 2 lower I bought complete shipped for $149.99, I will not buy another. I'd suggest crying once and buying an Aero Precision M5. That is if you know about yourself that you will want to buy or build other uppers. The PSA may be fine if your the type of person that will just buy one complete rifle, and or you are totally happy with the caliber list that PSA has decided to offer. Most of us here are NOT that person ;-). I do think the PSA on daily deal offers like I got for 149.99, magpul and EPT shipped for $149.99 is a great deal for the folks that as I said above will not be lusting for any of the dozen or more really cool calibers. PSA just recently however HAS sold some bare uppers...just the assembled upper with forward assist and ejection port door, that was the one part the upper builders like us needed. If you crack the slab with a few of these when you buy the gun then your "other calibers" Jones is covered ;-). https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa10-gen3-complete-upper-receiver.html I would not buy a PSA rifle or lower WITHOUT snagging at least two of what I linked above. I waited about 5 years literally for them to finally decide to start selling those. They are a true "game changer" IMHO for the PA10 lower owners. This to me is still a screaming deal with those bare uppers being avail. Count on needing a proper weight buffer and a Sprinco orange recoil spring maybe. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen3-pa10-308-complete-moe-ept-lower-with-over-molded-grip.html All that said once I went Aero Precision M5 I will not buy another PA10. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucson Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 12 hours ago, Armed Eye Doc said: Welcome to the forum @Mike Tucson PSA is good at making most AR-15 variants. I have purchased a bunch from them. Their large frame ARs are not always as reliable. The reason they have AGB is because they use inferior carbine recoil components and have a small gas port. A properly balanced gas system and recoil system should not need an adjustable gas block unless you shoot suppressed. There are many threads in the PSA section of the forum that go over the issues commonly observed and the fixes that are needed for them. Look there before making a decision. Not all PA10s need help to run, but we can help get in running correctly if you go that way. As to your question of rifle vs. mid-length gas system, I have used both. As long as the gas to cycle the gun balances the proper recoil system, there has been little difference in my experience. Others may other other views. I can offer no input on SS barrels. As an aside, DPMS is now owned by the same company as PSA. New 308ar rifles are likely to be the same as PA10s. Thanks for the advice. I have heard what you are talking about regarding PSA and other companies using carbine components for affordability/compatibility. I did read somewhere that having the proper buffer weight and spring go a long way with function/cycling as well. I will take a look at the threads you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucson Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 6 hours ago, 98Z5V said: My thoughts- he's decided, already. Let's just buy this thing, run it, and find out what happens. If it's good - great news on the actual PSA Part Number that he bought - WHEN they assembled it ON that day. Only, On That Day... If it's off - we fix it. I'm down. I like your thinking.... along the lines of "shoot first, ask questions later...." hahaha I'll definitely keep this updated once I decide which way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucson Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 9 hours ago, shooterrex said: If you buy the rifle stocked one and not the carbine stocked one you will probably have a gun that runs. My first one was a rifled stock one and it functions well. The carbine stocked ones is where they cut corners on parts. Welcome from Ky. As far as the uppers, some do list "rifle length" but I am not sure about the rest of the upper components. For the complete lowers, they are listing "carbine length buffer tube with heavy short buffer". Ill check to see if they have a kit with a no-s*** rifle length tube and buffer weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucson Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, willbird said: I HAVE a PSA Gen 2 lower I bought complete shipped for $149.99, I will not buy another. I'd suggest crying once and buying an Aero Precision M5. That is if you know about yourself that you will want to buy or build other uppers. The PSA may be fine if your the type of person that will just buy one complete rifle, and or you are totally happy with the caliber list that PSA has decided to offer. Most of us here are NOT that person ;-). I do think the PSA on daily deal offers like I got for 149.99, magpul and EPT shipped for $149.99 is a great deal for the folks that as I said above will not be lusting for any of the dozen or more really cool calibers. PSA just recently however HAS sold some bare uppers...just the assembled upper with forward assist and ejection port door, that was the one part the upper builders like us needed. If you crack the slab with a few of these when you buy the gun then your "other calibers" Jones is covered ;-). https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa10-gen3-complete-upper-receiver.html I would not buy a PSA rifle or lower WITHOUT snagging at least two of what I linked above. I waited about 5 years literally for them to finally decide to start selling those. They are a true "game changer" IMHO for the PA10 lower owners. This to me is still a screaming deal with those bare uppers being avail. Count on needing a proper weight buffer and a Sprinco orange recoil spring maybe. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen3-pa10-308-complete-moe-ept-lower-with-over-molded-grip.html All that said once I went Aero Precision M5 I will not buy another PA10. Bill I'll take a look at the uppers that you are talking about. I am leaning towards a complete upper, but am considering a build, though I usually reserve full builds for a higher quality brand. This is more of a starter rifle to tinker with and customize if it is a good rifle. I did hear lots of bad things about the Gen 2, but most general reviews, i.e., Pew Pew Tactical, The Gun Zone, Hunting Mark etc... are saying much of the problems have been fixed with the Gen 3. This is what I am looking at... PSA Gen3 PA10 Complete STR 2-Stage .308 Lower w/ Over Molded Grip 5165447841 | Palmetto State Armory Thanks for all of the helpful tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbird Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 One really common issue to look at right off the bat is the gas tube length. Many threads about it here, not just PSA either lots of other MFG put the gas block in the wrong place so that the AR15 gas tube they use ends up too short. That can be fixed a couple ways. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, Mike Tucson said: As far as the uppers, some do list "rifle length" but I am not sure about the rest of the upper components. For the complete lowers, they are listing "carbine length buffer tube with heavy short buffer". Ill check to see if they have a kit with a no-s*** rifle length tube and buffer weight. the "rifle length or mid length" gas system upper has nothing to do with the recoil system. These are separate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucson Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 8 hours ago, 98Z5V said: My thoughts- he's decided, already. Let's just buy this thing, run it, and find out what happens. If it's good - great news on the actual PSA Part Number that he bought - WHEN they assembled it ON that day. Only, On That Day... If it's off - we fix it. I'm down. Funny story... just doing some google searches on PA10 lower component specs, I ran into a conversation you had with someone else regarding his Gen3 PA10 lower. I'm looking at the same lower and might go with the orange Springco spring that you recommended, right off the bat. The specs I found for the PSA PA10 gen 3 "short heavy buffer" say 5.3 oz (I guess that would remain to be seen though). Also saw some recommendations for the CAR-10 XH buffer 6.5 oz. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 4 hours ago, Mike Tucson said: Funny story... just doing some google searches on PA10 lower component specs, I ran into a conversation you had with someone else regarding his Gen3 PA10 lower. I'm looking at the same lower and might go with the orange Springco spring that you recommended, right off the bat. The specs I found for the PSA PA10 gen 3 "short heavy buffer" say 5.3 oz (I guess that would remain to be seen though). Also saw some recommendations for the CAR-10 XH buffer 6.5 oz. Thoughts? If it truly has a 5.3oz buffer, then you don't need to buy another one unless it doesn't function correctly. As @shooterrexsaid above, there is no relationship between a rifle gas system and a rifle buffer. The same can be said of carbine systems. You can use a carbine buffer system with a rifle length gas system and vice versa. They do not need to be the same designation, only balanced gas and recoil impulses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucson Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 41 minutes ago, Armed Eye Doc said: If it truly has a 5.3oz buffer, then you don't need to buy another one unless it doesn't function correctly. As @shooterrexsaid above, there is no relationship between a rifle gas system and a rifle buffer. The same can be said of carbine systems. You can use a carbine buffer system with a rifle length gas system and vice versa. They do not need to be the same designation, only balanced gas and recoil impulses. Roger that. Thanks for the clarification. Assuming I go with that lower, it will be a "wait and see" deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff300 Posted Monday at 01:38 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 01:38 PM Welcome to the forum 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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