300 AAC Blackout

[survivalshop]

From what I have been reading , the Foster dies are made to 300blk spec's . There is a neck tension issue with other dies that are made for other calibers (300 whisper,300/221, etc.)

I saw a chart on them some where in my research & the Redding dies gave more & I think the Hornady dies were less neck tension .

It could be all solved if Redding made there "S" type sizing die for this caliber.

I ordered my 300 dies from a place called, Gun Stop & if it goes through ,there is a good deal less $$ than ordering them directly from Foster .

You can use loading data from the 300 whisper(or its copy's )  for the 300blk because basically the same cartridge except for the throat length in the barrels chamber.

I found that Brownells has a fail zero charging handle I will pick up next week with my hand guard (still not sure which one I want )

I also can't wait for load development . Pacific tool & gage make the head space gages for the 300blk. I emailed them because it doesn't show up on there chart.

Update ,I just ordered all three head space gages for $81 +shipping . I said what the hell , I need them & may be able to help others with them . I have them for the other calibers .

[Jgun]

I was led to understand that the Redding dies are superior to the Foster. I'f I understand you correctly, You ordered the Fosters because they are in the middle between the Redding (tighter) and Hornady (looser), is that correct? I will be interested to hear what your opinion is once you try them. My friend (whom I blame for getting me started on this 300 project) started with the Fosters and switched to the Redding die's. I don't know if his problems were caused by his lack of skill or by the dies. I know he's been loading and testing the ammo with the new dies and claims 100% reliability in his Noveske barrel so far. Next chance I get I'll ask him specifically what problem he had with the original dies.

[survivalshop]

Foster had some problems with the early dies , maybe he got a bad set .

I like Redding dies . but Foster got the spec's for the dies from AAC/Remington from the 300blk chamber reamer .

I'm not saying the others won't work (other reloaders are using them ),but they are for a different caliber & its chamber spec's..

I didn't order Foster dies because they were in the middle , I ordered them because they are designed for the 300blk chamber. Not 300 whisper or 300/221,300 fireball or the other names .

The 300blk is close to those above ,but different, that is why I ordered them .

There will be those who argue that its the same 300 whisper caliber ,but its not, close but not .

It is made to SAAMI spec's which any one can make the ammo or barrels . 

Early Noveske barrels are not 300BLK chamber  , they are 300 fireball.

[imschur]

I think I read at Snipershide there is plans for Redding dies

[Jgun]

Perhaps my associate has a barrel that is actually 300 fireball. I will have to check with him. All of this is a bit confusing to me because I have never gotten involved with loading one of these less established cartridges before. It certanly makes sense to me to use the dies that are actually designed for the cal vs something "close". Of course sometimes the difference between two wildcat cartridges is mostly in the name. I have never actually seen the actual dimensions of the 300 whisper, 300/221, 300 fireball or the 300AAC BLK so I don't know what the difference is. It sounds to me as though you've done your homework here. I would certainly like to buy the dies once and since I have had no experience using one cal of brass to make cases for another, I'd really like to get this right the first time so as to make this learning experience as enjoyable as possible. I look forward to hearing from you how the loading goes with the new dies. I'd also ask you to list what bullets, cases, powder and OAL you select.

[survivalshop]

If you wait long enough , as said, maybe others will be making dies,like Redding .

I would much prefer having brass already made or once fired brass to reload . This also is my first in going about reloading in this way.

Once brass is available, the forming of it will go away for most ,but for now , its the only way to go, to roll your own .

When I get my dies ,it will begin & I can't wait. My head space gages are about two weeks out ,they have to make them . They only had "field" in stock .I wanted a complete set , as I have for all the other calibers I have .

This will be a great hunting rifle for ya . I love the 308 ,of course , but this rifle ,I'm making for a different purpose . Hunting may be one , got plenty of hogs here in Florida ,so it may get a try out .

I'm not much on pork ,but the meat would not go to waste .

The bullets available in .30 cal. is just astounding , as we know with our 308's . Ones we would not use normally in the AR 308's can be used in the 300BLK with great results .

This is the first non NATO cal. for the AR platform , that has caught my interest. It will take off & maybe not in a military contract . It has a lot going for it .

If the guy who first came out with the 300Whisper had not kept it to himself , things might have come out different a lot earlyer.

[Jgun]

Don't know if this is of use to you, but Midway has Lake city brass on sale. I just ordered 1K along with some 145gr bullets. i still need to pick out a powder and order the dies. But I'm heading to the range on Sun to try out my Mega .308 carbine for the first time, and my friend with the 300 is planning to be out there as well,so I'll finally get a chance to try out the 300 AAC cal for myself.

[survivalshop]

I'm jealous, I want to shoot the cal. myself . I'm sure ,you will give a full report .

They shipped my dies today ,so they were good to there word.

I ordered the Troy battle rail in Mid. length.

Also ordered the gas block (Vltor low pro ), gas tube ,Fail Zero charging handle and some of the stuff for the stock ,that I don't know what collapsible I'm getting yet.

I ordered a Milspec extension ,ambidextrous adapter plate  & extention nut .

Hay, Brownells has no shipping cost on a &150.00 order , for March 4-6. I couldn't help myself saving 12 bucks ,so I ordered it a week ahead of schedule .

It was the dies shipping & put me into a frenzy.

I have more than enough once fired brass to cut down to form . The powder & bullets are some thing else I have to look into .

And my head space gages are still two weeks out .Damn.

[Jgun]

It finally stopped raining long enough to get to the range today. Tried out my friends 300(bottom) along with my Mega carbine(top). I really like the way the 300 feels. The recoil impulse is not as sharp as the .223's, I can't wait for my barrel to arrive.

[survivalshop]

My 300BLK dies came in yesterday . I will post some photo's & observations in the reloading section . I'm very impressed with the Foster dies .

My other parts shipped from Brownells .So now I have to cut down some brass this weekend & form some .

I have been collecting reloading data from around & really not much published yet . I plan on a bullet around 130 gr. , for it seems to have the best BC . I see some are using 125 gr. bullets &  pushing them well past the 2K fps .

What kind of grouping were you getting with the 300BLK & of course how did your 308 shoot . The first time shooting a rifle is truly a kick.

[Jgun]

I wasn't really shooting to see what the guns could do accuracywise, We were shooting to 100yds and I would say we were getting fist size groups, offhand and kneeling. With my .308, I was really testing function because this was the first time shooting it since I put it together, It ran very well, the only problem I encountered was with the Jard AR-15 trigger not reliably igniting the Belguim mil ammo I tried. It worked 100% with comercial ammo though. I called Jard and they're sending me a stronger hammer spring that they tell me should cure that. I found the recoil of the .308 to be suprisingly mild, maybe partly due to it being no lightweight, but I think the Battle comp I have mounted also has a lot to do with the low recoil.  The 4X scope I have mounted also is not really the best choice if your shooting for groups.

My friends 300 was also a lot of fun to shoot, I only shot ten rds or so with it so I didn't really get comfortable with it. I'm really not used to that angled front grip and the beautiful Nightforce 2.5-10X he has on it has a reticle that I'm not familiar with so my hits weren't all that consistant, besides I wasn't really shooting from the bench.  His load consisted of a 145 gr FMJ with 16gr of "LiL Gun" powder, which he describes as a general purpose powder. I was really suprised by how mild the recoil was. I have an idea that my gun with the 18" barrel will probably have more of a thump to it. I figure that in order to make PF with a 145 gr bullet, I'll need 2300 FPS. I may have to resort some of the other powder like the N110 to get that.

[Jgun]

I forgot to mention, that I'm looking forward to hearing about how the Foster die set works for you. I expect to be ready for the dies myself soon and I was told by redding that thier 300 die sets were about 2-3 months off. They also suggested that thier 300/221 (300 whisper) dies will do the job.

[survivalshop]

Who's dies probably won't matter too much except for the neck tension we discussed .

Now the ammo that is shot out of what . You can shoot any of the 300 Whisper ,300 fireball ,300/221 or what ever ,out of the 300BLK barrel, but you can not shoot 300BLK ammo in any of the other calibers. 

[Jgun]

I don't expect to ever find myself with a rifle chambered for any of those others. I would think that I'll be using my own loads for 300 along with testing some of the factory ammo for comparision when it becomes more redilly available. I don't know if my info is accurate but I had heard that the 300 has a longer neck which makes it possible to load bigger bullets and also to get more velocity compared to the others. Do you know if there's any truth to that?

[survivalshop]

1.368 case length ,compared to the shorter 300 Whisper, its variable case length .

Sammi spec. 300BLK .

The 300BLK has a longer throat then the others . Which means you can hop it up .

I picked up some Speer 125 TNT bullets today , I could not find any H110 , so I will use 2400 .

I got all my parts today , so I can fire this round .

My Head Spaced gages are a week out ,but it won't stop me from load testing . I have already looked at it & from my experience , it will pass . I just will not know until I put gages in her .

[survivalshop]

Upper is completely assembled .I had a small problem with the Troy battle rail. I had a four inch rail on the bottom , forward part of the hand guard & the screw block for the add on rail interfered with the ability to install the hand guard .

I have a Vltor low pro. gas block & ya can't get much smaller than that .

I removed the rail & the hand guard went right on.

I will look into altering it or I can move it back & it would be out of the way,as far as it being in the way of assembling it. I do not like a rail at the bottom where my hand grip is.

I had to order some H110  & I am using some other powders to work up loads . I cut & formed more brass last night to begin the load development.

Photo's will follow.

[survivalshop]

This is the upper on my Oly. preban A2 lower , one of my old Turkey scopes .

Since I worked OT ,all weekend , I made enough to finnish the lower off ,so I can have a complete rifle in this cal..

Just doesn't look right ,with the A2 stock .

[Jgun]

Survivalshop,

I'm frustrated because I can't  enlarge your pictures so I can get a good look at it with the Troy rail. From what I can see with my poor eyesight, it looks pretty impressive in that two tone color. I agree with you that it will look better with a different CAR type stock. I found a post from someone on quarterbore that said they got 2300 fps from 18.5 gr of H110 behind a 125 gr boattail. If I can duplicate that from the 18" , I will have achieved my PF goal, then it will be a question of how accurate, and out to what range will I be accurate, without too much holdover. Looking forward to seeing pics of the complete 300 rifle. Man I sure hope my barrel gets shipped this week.

[survivalshop]

The guy, his  name on his posts is RSILVERS, is the one in charge of development of this cartridge, said he gets 2450 fps from a 110 VMax out of a 16" bbl.

This reference of 2300 fps from a 18.5 of H110 ,sounds reasonable ,but the charge weight makes me sceptical because of my results.

Since my avg. for the 125 gr. bullet & 20 grs. of H110 was 2211 . Even with 2" more bbl. , I don't think that charge will make it.

My 19 gr. of H110 with the 125 was 2132 avg..

Of course what bbl. & what twist rate ya have may make some difference ,but you will need a chrono. to figure that out . Not to mention what round count is through the bbl.

Mine is not yet broken in yet & may loosen up after break in.

I like the Troy Battle rail , very light ,I'm not sure I how just a clamped on hand guard will fair ,but the way its made ,I can't see it loosening up .

I made it a little bigger for ya.

[Jgun]

I actually made a mistake. What I meant was that if I could get 2300 with the 145 gr I would make my PF goal. At this point everything I've read from others, including yourself, would seem to indicate that it's not likely. As you mention. Different barrels give different performance. Two things that may possibly help me are my longer barrel, and the different twist. I guess we'll find out once it's assembled. Something else had occured to me. I'm planning to go with a low mass bolt carrier, lightened buffer and an adjustable gas block. I'm wondering if the reduced gas needed to cycle the action might translate to a little more muzzle velocity. That gun rest looks pretty nice, does it stay put when you shoot the .308?

[survivalshop]

I can load up the 150 gr. bullets a lot higher than I am now . I am just working up loads now .

The next batch will be on the max side to see how far I can go .

So you need 2300 fps out of a 147 gr. bullet , that may be done with your 18" bbl.. What do the do , chrono your loads at the shoot , to see if you meet the PF. ?

I can see what I get the 150 up to this week .

The rest is a cheapo , but works just fine . You can't shoot with any mag fed rifle on it ,You have to cock it to one side & just use the front rest .

With my 20" 308 , I usually use the bi pod ,so I don't need it for that one .

I left my rest bags in Ohio at hunt camp , so I will need to buy more & just leave them there. They work much better with mag fed rifles ,if you get the right ones.

[Jgun]

They don't generally chrono at our local club matches, but it's routine at the bigger matches. It's also kind of an honer system thing. If I'm going to shoot against the guys who shoot minor, I should be actually shooting major if I want to take advantage of the scoring advantage. Since I'm going to have more of a hassle with loading my ammo, I may eventually decide it's more trouble than it's worth, but I won't know until I try, that is of course providing I can make major PF in the first place. I ordered my bolt carrier, so now I'm just waiting for the barrel and the dies. The way things are going, it looks like your going to end up doing all the load development and all I'm going to have to do is make a few test loads and I'll be set. Thanks for your R&D Survivalshop!!! I emailed Powder Valley about the N110 powder and was told that they expect a shipment from VV in April, but they don't know if it will include N110. Do you know of any other sources to get it ?

[survivalshop]

I haven't looked for N110 , I'm using H110 & WW 296.

I  just cut down & sized some Hornady .223 brass . I will get more case volume from the commercial brass than the thicker LC .( & I know its once fired)

I 'm also trimming them longer ,not much, but every little bit will help to get more powder in & keep it from being a compressed load .

I was trimming them to 1.360" ,now on this batch of Hornady brass ,I'm trimming to 1.365".(case length for the 300BLK is 1.368" )

I will also be testing the WW296 for the first time Friday & will post the results in the Reloading section .

You say you ordered a light weight BC ? That may not help you get the FPS as a heavier M16 BC would.

You can always put a Superior shooting systems spring in ( Tubbs )They clame you get longer lock time to increase FPS .

I have one in my AR 308 carbine ,16" bbl. ,but have not had the time to test the two springs , to see if its true. Spring works great though .

[Jgun]

The bolt carrier I ordered is presently on back order, so I figure that once the barrel comes in (no word on that yet) I'll assemble the upper and if the dies still aren't here (also still on back order) I'll ask my friend to load some rds for me and I'll use the Youngs NM bolt carrier from the AR that I'm using the lower of (gotta love that parts commonality). That way I'll at least be able to break in the barrel and get some baseline of what velocity it's capable of. Then, just like you, I'll try different combinations of bolt carrier, buffer and spring to see how they each effect both velocity, and felt recoil. I think this gun with it's adjustable gas block is going to give me the chance to experiment and hopefully learn a lot about how heavier/lighter springs, buffers and bolt carriers effect the performace of the AR guns. I'm also hoping that I'll be able to take that knowledge and apply it to my .308 AR's.  Regarding the powder, As I understand it, N110 has similar performance to H110 but is less temperature sensitive. Is that accurate?

[survivalshop]

I have seen the use of N110 ,but know nothing about it . As said I went with H110 & WW 296 .

The WW 296 is supposed to be less sensitive to temp. change , at least that's what I read from another reloaders comments.

He had problems at a match using H110 that load tests were done at a lower temp. & the match was at more moderite temps..

Who knows ,what really happened, too many factors can come into the equation when some one else is doing the loading .

I trimmed & primed the Hornady brass & both the Rem. 7 1/2 bench rest & CCI primers fit & seated normally & felt good going in .

I'm not sure where this batch of LC that I used the first test came from ,but I don't like the primer seat feel , even with the CCI's I just put in the second batch .