300 AAC Blackout

[Jgun]

You said that you had problems with loose primers in your LC brass, that was used brass, correct? The reason I'm asking is that I bought 1K of new LC brass from Midway and cut it down in preperation for loading once the dies show up. Do you think I can expect similar primer pocket problems with new LC brass?  Also, Is the ww 269 considered a hotter/more powerful powder than the H110? I wonder How the "Lil Gun" compares to these others? I'm sure hoping that I'm not cutting it so close with the power factor that I find the case capaacity of the LC is an issue. Since I'm unable to do any testing myself at this time, I find myself hanging on each of your posts to see where your testing takes you as far as muzzle velocity goes. It will also be very interesting to see if the fastest loads turn out to be the most accurate. I'm also curious to see how how the same load performs in your 1/8 barrel vs my 1/10.

[survivalshop]

I worked late last night & am not able to go to the range today & also looks like I will be working the whole weekend . Monday will be the day, I guess , which is not bad , good chance to get range brass.

The LC I loaded may have had brass with multiple loadings mixed in it ,because I have been using Rem. bench rest primers & they are the same color as factory copper color.

You should have no problems with new brass , as long as you stay with in pressure limits .

The blowing of primers is one of the signs of high pressure. In my case , I knew some had a lose fit & that shows  over worked brass , but they served there purpose .

It was only two that did it & the others showed no signs of over pressure

I did have two when reloading that fell out when primed & I tossed them in the scrap brass bin & reused the primers.

The Winchester WW 296 shows the same loadings grs. & vol. as H110.

LiLgun , your on your own on that one , you will have to work up loads to see.

Right now I have 19grs. of H110 loaded with a 150 gr. bullet & will see how that goes on Monday . That is up there, but I don't think it will make it to your 2300 fps . I go with avgs. now ,so one that may brake that out of five will not be a definitive example of that velocity goal.

CMMG is selling new Remington 300 BLK brass http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/category/Reloading-Supplies-190

, I ordered 100 .

It all about the case head designation , I have others in my household that shoot & its good to have the head stamp right for them. It is on the pricey side , but once I get my loads right ,my 5.56/.233 head stamp brass will go away.

[Jgun]

Thanks for the heads up on the brass. I think I'll order some also, if for no other reason than to see if the different brass has any effect on the velocity. You say that you expect your next loads to be higher FPS. I'm thinking that if you get even close to 2300 out of your barrel, my 18" will likely be able to make it. I'm trying to be patient and not be a pain in the ass to my barrel guy, but I think I'm going to have to give him a call this week to see if it's almost done. I'll to be out of town next week but I'd love for it to be waiting for me when I get back.

[survivalshop]

Some times you have to light the fire under them ,they did screw the first one up . You should have had your barrel by now.

We will see tomorrow ,if it doesn't rain too hard to test the loads . I have to inspect the brass when done to see if I can go higher than what I have loaded for the 150 gr. .

[Jgun]

Yeah, they told me that due to a mixup the first one had the wrong twist. I was told that they have the corrrect blank now. If I have the time I'll give them a call this week.

Good luck with your testing tomorrow. Hope you get good weather. I'm going to be in FL this week also. I hope to get lucky weatherwise myself.

[survivalshop]

Well , Jgun , I don't think my 16" bbl. is going any where near 2300 fps with a 150 gr. bullet.

* 19 gr. of H110 , 150 gr. sp. bullet , vol.-1974fps

I got blown primers & a empty case stuck in the chamber, so I would say its too hot of a load .

*18 grs. of WW 296 , 150 gr. sp, bullet , 1976 fps ,

Now the above load was a nice round , but I will load a little lower ,this would be max. loading in this upper . Depending on the brass , I would reduce the load 1.0 -.5 grs., good shooting round.

* 21 grs. of H110 , 125 gr. TNT bullet, 2309 fps .

This is a compacted powder charge & it too is too hot .

* 20 gr. of WW 296 , 125 gr. TNT bullet , 2221 fps avg. -2212,

This was the most accurate load of the day , even with the cheap scope .

* 20 gr. H110, 125 gr. TNT bullet , 2266 fps .

This is the max for this rifle set up I have , I would lower the charge , 1.0 -.5 grs. ,not a bad shooter , but did get a couple of blown primers . Didn't look at what brass yet or primer , I will .

* 19gr., H 110, 125 gr. TNT, 2106  fps , ES -18 , SD -7 ,

Had a Rem. 7 1/2 primer & Hornady case.This was also a good shooter , not as good as the load with ww296 ,but close.

This rifle has no perceived recoil at all & I don't even have a muzzle device on it yet.

I wonder what it will do with the carbine spring & buffer , what will change I don't know ,but I have some good loads to play with now & know what the max is .

I still want to try the 135 gr. Sierra match bullets & will next time order ,I will order some to try.

[Jgun]

Sounds as though you've pretty much covered the range of what can be expected from these powders/ bullets. And based on your results I don't think it's likely that any of them will get me to major power factor, even with the longer barrel. But, there's still hope for me, because I was able to speak to my barrel guy today. Although the barrel has still not shipped, He assures me that  it will be waiting for me when I get back into town next week. He also tells me that, they are currently making power factor using 175 and 180 gr bullets. He promised to share the load data with me. In order to make the PF I will need to get 1800-1850 fps with those weight bullets. He also tells me that AAC is planning to offer ammo specifically intended for the 3 gun shooters, which will be guaranteed to make the PF without over pressure. You say that the recoil is minimal, I was also suprised when I tried the 300 how mild the kick was. It seems not so sharp as a .223. I can't help wondering how accurate my 300 will be with 180's  I hear that the 300 doesn't shoot as straight as the .223, so I'm wondering if I'll have to deal with holdovers at longer range?

[SWshooter]

Just for general info, WW296 and H-110 are the same powder made in the same plant just put into different containers depending on who it's shipped to. You will still get some variations in different lots, so approach max with caution. If I recall correctly 296 was designed for loading 30 carbine ammo, and is mostly used for magnum pistol loads with heavy bullets. As a bottle neck rifle powder it is very fast, Lil'gun is slightly slower and you might have better luck with it. The only rifle cartridge I load with it is 218 Bee. I use a lot of it for 357 and 44 mag and hot 45 Colt loads though.

[survivalshop]

I can tell you this much , the WW296 & H110 do look the same & they both have the same charge weights to velocity ( by the manual ).

So it may be the same powder, but as you said the lot to lot differences may be why I getting different results with hand weighed charges using the same brand brass & ,primers & bullets .

I have used H110 with 44 mag, but settled on 2400 because it was more accurate in my 44 s.

And yep, H110 was loaded in the .30 carbine .

Never tried lilgun , yet .

Be interesting to see what ACC/Remington come out with .

Also be interesting what loadings your barrel manufacturer comes out with on the 180 gr. bullet .

[survivalshop]

IO posted this in the reloading section also. New RP ACC 300 blackout brass ,primered  w/ crimp.

Quite a few bent case mouths ,will have to expand the ones that are messed up . Probably from shipping & handling.

[survivalshop]

These came while I was out of town, now I can check the head space of my rifle that I have been shooting for a couple of weeks . Made by Pacific Tool & Gage.

[Jgun]

I just got an email from my barrel guy, says that my barrel has shipped. Gunstop has also emailed saying that the dies should be back in stock next week, so I may be able to shoot my own 300 pretty soon. I still haven't found anyone with the 300 AAC marked brass in stock, Survivalshop, where did you get yours

[98Z5V]

I need to start paying greater attention to all this.  Made up my mind tonight that I'm either doing this cartridge or the 7.62x40 WT cartridge.  I want it suppressed, so I'm probably going with this one. 

It's a sickness...  <dontknow> <laughs>

[Jgun]

I noticed that in the data you posted, Wilson used a 1 in 12 twist barrel. I'm not sure what effect that might have on the velocity, but it is my understanding that the longer twist may not stabilize the heavier bullets (I don't see any data on bullets heavier than 150gr) My barrel mfg told me that the 1/10 twist of the 300 barrel I ordered would not perform as well as 1/8, on bullets over 200 gr. Also, I can't own a suppressoer in my area, so I don't know much about this, but don't they like to use subsonic ammo with a can? If so, the added performace may not be of use if your loading subsonic for the supressor? One other thing I was thinking about. I see Wilson specifically mentions using modified Lancer mags (which I find to be top notch). I wonder if the Pmags can be modified in the same manner as the Lancers, in order to accomidate the 7.62 X40 rds?

And I agree with you about it being a sickness, every time I start a new project I say to myself that this will be the last on, and that there's no other AR variation that I need, and then when it's finished (or even before) I've already come up with some other cal/barrel length/purpose gun that I think I need. I think what I really need is an intervention.

[98Z5V]

Jgun, from what it looks like right now, I'll be leaning more towards this one, the 300BLK over the x40WT cartridge.  The barrel specs you mentioned are only one of the reasons.  I need to wait and see what other companies come up with for barrels before I plunge right into that one, that's for sure.  For suppressor use, I could load some subsonic x40WT, but even Wilson is directly telling people that if suppressed is primarily what you want, you're better off using the BLK cartridge over their x40WT.  That's pretty cool, and very honest of them, right up front.

What I'm probably going to do is build this up as a 300BLK rifle, get everything settled on it, and pick up a x40WT barrel down the road.  Someone, somewhere will figure out the x40WT magazine issue, and it'll probably be an easy modification.  I'd need to mock load up some actual ammo and play with magazines to try to figure it out on my own, find the restriction, figure out a mod for it - and I'm not sure if I'd want to commit to the reloading tools right away just to do that.  Once it gets solved, I'll probably be in that.

Now, for the bad news I found out for myself...  the lower I wanted to use for this rifle build is already (only) marked Cal: 5.56mm.  I'm screwed for using that lower...  >:(

[survivalshop]

I won't tell any one its not a 5.56 .

I head spaced my bbl. yesterday & its a GO , nice & tight too.

I chose 1-8 ,because I may add a can to this rig, some day.

[Jgun]

My barrel finally showed up this weekend. I mocked it up and pinned it to my Mega lower. I'm building this as a comp focused upper, so have chosen my parts with weight savings in mind. The gun as pictured weighs under 7 lbs empty without optic. I hope I don't regret the light weight barrel contour.

[survivalshop]

Nice set up , I like the looks of the hand guard.

I got the brass from CMMG of all places & I think I put a link in one of the threads ,maybe the reloading section .

I have been working seven days a week & took a week out of town off , so I have to get busy loading ammo for accuracy loading.

[Jgun]

I thought that was where you said you got it. As soon as you told me I contacted them and they were out of stock. This 300 stuff seems to be VERY popular. I'm sure things will settle down eventually and the brass will become more redily available, especially once people start shooting factory ammo in greater volume.

[Jgun]

My buddy loaded some 300 for me, using 150 gr FMJ bullets. I have no idea how deep he seated the bullets but the OA cartridge length is 2.08". When I load them in my Pmags or Lancer mags, I have .180" from the front of the rd to the inside front of the mag. I assume  that the 7.62 X 40 has a cartridge length .197" (5mm) longer than the 300. What I'm getting at is that I think it may not be possible to get as much extra powder in the case as the 5mm longer case would allow, based on the limitations of OAL created by the mags, especially if you wanted to use bullets heavier than 150 gr. I also think it's good that Wilson is honest in stateing that their rd is not the best choice for subsonic, but am wondering if the extra usable.100 case length will really make that much difference in performace over the 300. If you decide to try it at some point after you build the 300 it will be very interesting to see just how the two compare, side by side.

[98Z5V]

^^^ Those are the things I've been looking at, too - without the benefit of having a 300BLK already on hand.  Just the measurements you've given means that you'd have a round, seated like the others at the current seating depth - sticking out 0.017" further than the 2.250" mag length.

That's probably the thing that guys are talking about with the modified mags, and only using Lancer mags.  I need to pick up a Lancer 5.56 mag and check it against my plethora of Pmags, just to see what's going on between the two.  If I can't use (make, modify, or buy) a Pmag for the x40WT, then I may not be running it.  If I have to modify a Pmag to run the x40WT, and it affects the function of running 5.56 through that same mag - then I may not be running it. 

I'd like to get into this round for many reasons, but common use of parts is the primary reason.  If that's not gonna be the case, then it's not worth it.  Especially when the 300BLK will run in my comon parts.  I'll order up a Lancer mag just to check out what's going on.  That's a pretty small price for admission, without diving headfirst into it.  <thumbsup>

[imschur]

yep building a rifle around the mag....your getting reeled in  <munch>

[98Z5V]

yep building a rifle around the mag....your getting reeled in  <munch>

Shiiiiiaat.  If I was doing that, I would have built an AR-1.....  Oooops.  can't say that here.  ;)

That's why I built a SR-25-based .308...  <thumbsup>

[Jgun]

I don't know if the gen 1 or gen 2 Lancer 20 or 30 rd mags differ from the extended Lancer 48 round competition mags I have, but those mags have the identical inside front to back measurement as my 30 rd Pmags. I measure them both at around 2.275-2.280" which is plus .2" over the length of the loaded rds I have. Granted, you might pick up a little space with a diferent bullet type than the fmg, but based on whay I'm seeing it may be more work than it's worth.

[98Z5V]

That's what I'm thinking.  Especially when Wilson is saying they're supplying "modified" Lancer mags and that's the only thing that'll work.  Not quite sure I'm up for experimenting with what their modifications are - even if I buy a few from them.  300BLK keeps looking better and better.  ;D

Someone will figure this all out, with the mags. Once that happens and it'a a common thing, it'll be more appealing.