N Jensen

Personally I would not use Fed 210M in the AR or M1A/M-1. The reason is the possibility of the round being fired before the bolt has the chance to rotate and lock. If the round is striped from the mag, there is a lot less chance of this happening. If one throws a round in and lets the bolt fly fwd, the chance of a slam fire goes up over other primers. The firing pin keeps moving fwd before the bolt rotates and has enough energy to strike the primmer and set it off. I assume the Armilite still have the spring that keeps the firing pin to the rear to prevent this. DPMS guns do not, hence the floating firing pin. Over 30 years of HP shooting, I have seen on the range or have been right next to rifles blowing up. About 11 M1A's one M-14, and two AR 15. Because of this, learning by others mistakes, I stay away from fed primmers. I do use them in my bolt guns.

The one I have, the screws are not located high enough up to slide through a slot on the bottom side of the barrel. The adapter just slides over the barrel and the 3 screws are tighten down providing enough grip to stay in place without groves on the lower side of the barrel. I tend to think it's original late WW II production. The heat shield is not the same finish, and the machine marks on the bottom of the lug and face of the round face is still visible. The front sight is a steal and not brass and is very short. But seeing a picture of an original in a book is what I hope to find. The next gun show in my area is not until Dec or Jan at the earliest. So, still looking for a good answer.

I know some very good long range shooters and they only clean the barrel when the rifle starts to open up or bullets off call. I used to clean every time then switch, I couldn't tell the difference between being clean and not at 800 to 1000yds. My 308 AR I will clean the chamber with brush and mop and bolt on a 3 day match and then clean the whole rifle after it's all done. Each barrel is different and for semi auto easily clean after every shoot is better in the long run.

I understand, its going to be hard to figure out it seems.

I read the thread you found and took some pictures of the area mentioned in it. I do see some milling machine marks, what do you think? I wanted to find out what I had original or not. It would depend if I bought any old shotgun and cut the barrel down or try and find an original trench shotgun. They cost a lot more but might be worth the trouble.

Outstanding, I 'll be waiting to hear from you.

I do have a 1907 bayonet and it dies fit. I was hopping for more detail. Just don't know where to look to see if no markings is correct or not. Neil

I have this heat shield for a M10 or 1897 shotgun. It is a 4 row 19 hole heat shield, small/short steel front sight. There is no markings on it and appears to be original finish. The inside area is smooth to slip over the shotgun barrel, the screws holes are low enough to not touch the bottom of the barrel. From what I saw on line it might be a late WW II part from Winchester for shotguns for the war. This was in my fathers gun collection. But I have no idea exactly what it maybe original or reproduction. Can anyone tell me what I have? Thanks Neil

Brass can make a difference. Personally I use Winchester or Remington brass for long range. This what I do to ensure accurate ammo for long range, ie 600yds or further. All cases are weighed to +/- .5 grain, prime pocket uniformed, debur flash hole inside the case, turn the necks and use a bushing die and have a .001 interference fit. Varget powder for me works the best in the 308, about 43.0 to 43.5 and a 175 MK. Remington 9 1/2 primmer or try a Win Mag primmer. CCI bench rest is another good one to try. I don't use Fed 210 M, to many blown primers. Short range, 200 and 300yds, I just load them up,

The SMK bullets sometimes being longer than others is very normal. To ensure the all the bullets engage the lands exactly the same can be done three ways. The most simple way is buying a bullet seater that contacts the ogive of the bullet and not the tip of the bullet when pushing it into the neck. There is a special tool that uniforms the bullet to be the same length. I believe you can get one at Redding or Sinclair. Also by doing this also ensures every bullet has the exact BC as longer bullets should have a better BC than the shorter bullets. Some F Class and Bench-rest and the top palma shooters do this, but not everyone as it takes a lot of time sorting bullets and trimming them. Last choice is to buy bullets with the plastic tip like the AMAX bullet, they should be all the same length but I never check myself. As far as pressure, unless you seat them very long to reach the rifling, the pressure from mag length is nothing to worry about. If you plan on jamming the bullet into the lands, and single fire them one at a time, you will need to be cautious and test the loads as you move up in powder charges. Personally, I don't worry about length of the bullets, except to make sure all the rounds fit into the mag. Long range ammo I fire single far are to long to fit the mag, I seat them at .015 to .020 off the lands. I don't like to jam my bullets, if you have to unload the rifle, the bullet sometimes stays stuck and dumps the powder in the lugs and mag area. It makes a mess. Better to practice more than worry about this little stuff.

Sorry, I didn't go.

The match is over now, Team Remington did very well, the lady shooter on the Remington team with an AR-15 Service rifle shot the high score over the 3 day match wining the service rifle class as well. A shooter out of Ca won the match rifle class using Ar 15 based rifle. . The photo of the red match rifle is a Tubb 2000, that can be one of the most complicated rifles to adjust if you want it to be. Sight radius extension tube of 6 inches, but stock for cant, up and down, and even sideways for standing, counter weights "to keep recoil bounce down), A timmer/stop watch on the side so you can see when you run out of time during the timed fire of rapid fire.. It was the most complicated rifle to adj and shoot. Most people with match rifles like myself try and keep the rifle fairly simple to use. I have an hand stop and adj apeatures, but I also need to fix it if it brakes again. It just shows that a bolt gun and with without practice (like myself as well) that a simple service rifle can be the best tool for the job. .

My rifle worked just fine throughout the day. Although my scores were not as good for short range than the day before. Finaly decided that my eyes are not what they use to be and installed a diferent rear sight with a diopter to make the front sight look sharp again. With this change it really helped my 600 yd score a lot. I cleaned the stage with a 200-11X and was the 2nd highest score at 600. The high score was 200-14X. I assume he was shooting a bolt action gun. I was the first to shoot on the target so I was able to get a picture of it. I pull back a few pasters to see where the holes were actually were at. The high 9 was my first sighter and after a elevation adj the 2nd sighter was in the X and didn't change the elevation after that. Out of the 20 rounds scored, only 4 of them were not within the 6 inch height of the xring. Considering I have 140 rounds fired before starting the 600yd match, the gun is shooting pretty good. Being able to see better helped aim the rifle, but I also think the accuracy comes from the bolt mod I did by elminating the geas rings. By welding the slot up and machining it down to a .001 slip fit back into the carrier. The load was Creedmoor case, Win Mag primer, 142 MK, 41.0 g H4350. Bullet seated .015 off the lands. Will see how tomorrow goes, won't be able to post anything until I get to Vegas the next day. Some more photos. And yes, I have spare extractors but will buy some more spares when I get home.

Finaly have the photos small enough. I hope tomorrow goes well and I have no more issues.

Stranding position. Sorry the photos were to big another try.

I shot the first day and was doing fairly well until 600yds, after jusr a few shots, the extractor broke. I couldn't finish the 600yd line. I was down 10 points goiing to 600yds, 193 standing, cleaned 2 RF and drop the other 3 at 300yds. Without the extractor, I was done shooting, but a few local shooters quickly gave me several ideas to find a replacement part. At POF here in Phoenix was happy to help me out, buying a few spares as well. They were super nice about the whole thing. So I still can shoot the next 2 days. Here is a few photos. I will be here in town until Sat after the match then heading to Vegas.

The Creedmoor Cup In Phoenix, three 800 point aggs over three days of shooting starting on Thursday. I'm taking my 6.5 cal there. Last year I had the LR Creedmoor rifle modified into a target rifle, Added aperture match sights, new hand guard that will work with an adjustable hand stop, A1 but stock to reduce the length of pull. Nice 2 stage trigger. I have 123g for short range 200 and 300 yds and 142g loaded long for the single fire stage at 600yds. I haven't shot a match in a year now, so I hope I do well. I will post some pictures after I get there.

One can use magnum primers in anything ou want, but it doesn;t mean you can keep putting more powder in the case. Stay within normal powder charges, the primer may help the ignite better and be more accurate as well. I did figure out the hardway is that Remington 9 1/2 mag primers don't work the best. Even loaded in a 338 lapua magnum I had several rounds that didn't fire. Very hard cup I suppose. Winchester mag primers or CCI is better. On my LR 308 shooting 185 bergers, win mag primers at max loads, I didn't have any periced primers.

Can a 308 win a match in todays 6mm and 6.5 cal rifles, and the answer is no. Palma matches, everyone has to shoot a 308 and in some matches everyone must use the 155g bullet. Can a sniper rifle out shoot a target rifle, no the target rifle has hand stops, adj but plates and cheek for a good stock weld, are generaly heavy rifles long barrels. Sniper rifle usualy doesn't have many adjustments. Both are made to high standards but the target rifle has ammo custom loaded for it than out of the box 308. But I would not bring my palma rifle to a gun fight or hunting. Can a sniper read wind, yes but not as good as someone who has HM card and been shooting palma. The sniper most likely will never put in the time to become as good wind reader as HP guy in long range shooting. A full size silhouette is much larger than a ten ring thats on a decimal target. I’m assuming that a hit anywhere on a silhouette is a counter while in HP getting all 20 scored in the ten ring or better is the only way to win the match, just hitting black ant going to cut it. Several years ago, on the last day of the shot show in Vegas a nice guy with a 3,500 dollar sniper rifle Night Force scope came out to the 1,000yd match. He just wanted to shoot, which is fine. I was looking at his rifle and he told me all about it. I pointed to my M-70 palma rifle, 30 inch barrel and iron sights. I told him that my gun was going to beat his gun hands down. We shot, he left without saying anything, never asked one question on how an iron sighted rifle could out shoot his 3,500 dollar gun. Is there a sniper out there can read wind and shoot better than a HM in long range, maybe I just never met him.

I have been a HP shooter for the last 32 years, bull’s-eye shooting with service rifle (M1A, Garand, Ar-15) and match rifles the last 10 years or so. The last 6 years with a semi auto match rifle based on the DPMS LR action. I have shot probably 80, 000 rounds of 168 down range from 200yds to 1,000 yds with a M1A alone. Pulling targets during 1,000yd match and seeing key holing bullet holes of 168's made me use a different bullet after 800yds. A barrel length of 22inch and Ar 15 of course 20 inches. When the army team switched to the NM AR 15 and did so well with it, everyone parked the M1A;s and bought AR's. The barrel length wasn't the reason, it was because the rifle was easier to shoot. Things are changing, with better bullets, optics, stocks, all help a rifle get there and more accurate. If 18 inches is better, why not go with a 16 inch barrel. I often tell people that all the long range rifle matches that I have been, I never seen anyone with a sniper rifle win the match. They just don’t have the skills in wind reading nor loading accurate ammunition. My favorite quotes: A 308 will never win a rifle match unless everyone is shooting a 308 Accuracy beats Velocity in loading ammo A trained sniper is not going to beat a high master ranked competitor in a rifle match A sniper rifle will not beat a target rifle, but a target rifle isn’t good or made to be a sniper rifle

The test at 920 yds using Fed match 168, most likely the bullet was tumbling through the air. If one shoots enough ammo, even a tumblin bullet will hit something. Comparing powder burn rates when bullets were not even the same isn't a compparision. Shoot the same bullet, then compare it. The 168 was never designed to be supersonic at 1000yds at the veloicity that a 308 can push them. Can the 168 be accurate at 1000yds, it can or could be, but under most circumstances it won't be. The 175MK was designed to be supersonic and to replace the military 173g bullet used for sniping after the lawyers gave their blessing and follow the law of armed conflict. The basic reason to replace the 173g bullet was it was made so poorly and just didn't shoot very good. It was cheaper to buy a new bullet than it was to fix the machinery and process to make them. But the union contract to make those crap bullets goes on. The fact that a shorter barrel required more elevation means the bullet was in the air longer, wind can effect it longer, one requires that range estimation has to be more exact in order to hit the target as the bullet has a higher arc and sharper down ward angle toward the target. Yes one can shoot a short barrel rifle and get the job done, but does 2 inches make a difference when the target your shooting at can't even see you and your rifle. Up close around a building, I got it short is nice.

Not sure if my 2 cents is going to help you or not. If the rifle is new, it make take some shooting to break it in. Keep it well oiled and gas rings clean, once the rings have some carbon build up and combine with some shooting the action becomes more and more sticky to cycle. In other words, the smoother the action unlocks and moves reward the lower the vertical spread will be. With vertical strining make sure the action is cleaned and then retest the ammo. With varget, I would increase the powder charge, try 43.0g with a winchester or remington case. Military cases, back off a grain as they are much heavier. Good luck!!

I bet you were laughing a lot!!!! Lot's of BS arguing when everying one thought it was a 308. Great group by the way!!

good luck on that 7 inches then.

I say a lot of "Crazy talk" is going on here. Found this in about a minute on the web, look at table one. Takes 13 minutes of elevation for 500yds with a dead on 100yd zero. Or 13 inches high at 100yds, unless of course 1 inch = 1 MOA has chamged since last weekend. http://www.ultimatesniper.com/shooting_articles/extended-ballistic-data-for-the-federal-.308-match-round.pdf Yep, 84 g of H1000 in a 7mm STW will most likely be very flat shooting, I would also say the barrel life is about 1.1 seconds or 1100 rounds, probably a little less.