JBMatt

Alright, I kinda got drug into this diatribe, so now I feel like I need to throw in my $0.02. Wanted or unwanted. From the outside looking in, you appear to have read every single thing that is a thing about what you're wanting to do or build, even though that is still not exactly clear. Maybe you've talked to a few people "in the know". Half of what you've said/asked about makes no difference for what you are doing or attempting to do. Some of it is totally unnecessary. Literally splitting hairs and the improvements will only be seen in a controlled environment with an expert/champion shooter that has a rifle where the groups are measured to the .0001". Some of what you've said is interesting. It probably worked for someone, somewhere at some time I have no doubt. That being said, the resistance that you are identifying is because the majority of us have learned all this by doing it. We've set a goal, built a rig, loaded the rounds and went and tested to get our results. Rinse. Repeat. A dream parts list on paper might look good and sound like a real winner, but when it's all put together you'll quickly learn that some of that schitt doesn't make a hill of beans difference or you paid a lot of money for a part that just flat out doesn't work as intended. But on paper and in theory it should work! Because every rig works differently, every shoulder holds it differently, every eye sees it differently and every finger pulls it differently. And there's a lot of things that make more of a difference that you've kind of just skipped over. Just my observation from reading what's here, but it's easy to assume that all of the things you listed in the posts above are from research and not your real world experience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it comes across. Granted, some people may have done some things and others may have done other things that work, but the only real way to know is to build it and do it. For yourself. What works for that guy may not necessarily work for you and that goes for information received here, as well. Go through all the steps, buy all the high dollar stuff, spend all the time doing everything awesome and badass and go test it. Then get back to us with the results. All it is now is piss in the wind until it's proven. You've thrown around different ideas/theories. Some will stick, others will not. I have a feeling that you'll end up ditching half the parts/procedures you've talked about as the time/effort just won't be worth it in the end. Around here, we run our bolt, not our mouth. While we may not know everything, we definitely know enough to get the job done and we know BS when we hear it. There's something to be said about being able to out perform your equipment, and it comes across that you're armchair quarterbacking this so far. You can build a 10 second drag car on paper, but what matters is where the rubber meets the road. Enjoy the journey.

I've taken my 6.5 gas gun out to 1500 hitting a milk jug. Was running out of optic, but got it done at 1,000, 1,200 and 1,500. Hit a 30" plate at a mile, as well. Was definitely out of optic. 308 will get it done too, just takes way more effort. Not worth it, in my opinion.

If you're coming to the Fall Shoot, @98Z5V , Tommy and I will have plenty of "stages" to run and give y'all a little taste of what we're doing. It's just so damn much fun!

I'd like to make a motion to have this stricken from the record, your Honor, on the account that I'm running a silencer and it takes the sound longer to stop the timer...

In my defense, that was a Speedo, it was hot out and I knew you wouldn't mind...

What do you mean? Round is a shape! You saying I don't look good in a leotard?

I lived at the US Olympic Training Center from 1994-2004. Epic times, back then. Never, not one time did I ever see ANY athlete, coach or anyone affiliated with that place have anything but the utmost respect and admiration for Ol Glory and what she stands for. The entire purpose for being there was to represent the Country in World competition, ie: the Olympics. That's the big dance and the pinnacle of competition. I represented the US on many occasions throughout the years both Nationally and in World Competition. We were like celebrities in other countries. Always got the biggest cheers from the crowd no matter where we were in the world. Everyone wanted to be us. The US has always been a power house and a force to be reckoned with in World competition. Nowadays it just feels like we're a bunch of clowns trying to be the most controversial. It's very disappointing for me to watch these self centered center of uranus attention whores trying to be known for what they believe in, not what they're physically capable of. The problem is, they're taking away from themselves the ability to concentrate at the level they need to because they have their thoughts filled with all the bullpoopy they're trying to "stand for". The focus in all sports used to be the sport itself. It was the spirit of competition whether locally, nationally or internationally. The sport and all it's nuances is what draws in the participants as well as the fans. These days, all of that has seemed to have taken a back seat. I'm proud to say though, that all of the shooters I kept track of during these Olympics all had one thing on their mind. Bring home the hardware for the US. And we did. Golds, Silvers and Bronze medals taken in the shooting disciplines with some World Records being set along the way. It's going to be almost impossible at this point to reverse the trend, but ALL sports, including professional sports, should have nothing to do with politics or any kind of social message. But that's not a reality today. Sad, actually. On many levels. But here we are.

Thanks, @98Z5V for the plug. I built that oil to do all of the good things that article explains and it doesn't seem to have any of the drawbacks so far. I say so far because no one has ever had anything negative to say about it. It is a thicker product that sticks to where you put it, but it absolutely has the ability to creep and get in all those tiny places. I built it thicker so it wouldn't tend to gas off and fly away on a gas gun. A little bit goes a long ways. I built it to have properties that impregnate the carbon build up and keep it from hardening. Clean up after a range session is pretty effortless. It also has acid neutralizers in it that prevent the acids in your sweat and hands from developing rust on blued surfaces. It also has EP properties in the form of a metal conditioner that actually impregnate into the metal and smooth out all the little peaks and valleys that are in the surface. Reduces the friction like nothing you've ever seen before. I actually built it for myself to use on my high end stuff. I have a Perazzi with hundreds of thousands of rounds through it and I religiously applied lube to it every time I assembled it. And that was every day for a lot of years. It still had noticeable wear in the high friction/pivot areas. If you've ever held or shot a Perazzi, you know they're like a close tolerance 1911. So I built this stuff to cease the wear on the Perazzi and then started using it on the gas guns. @98Z5V is responsible for the crossover and the rest is history! If anyone wants to try it, let me know and we'll get some to you. There's always plenty of sample bottles at the Fall Shoot for everyone to have some and take it with them. If you've ever used it, you know that it's pretty awesome stuff. If you don't like it, that's fine. As long as you don't mind being in the minority.

Lookin good!

Only thing I see wrong here is that there's waaaay too many numbers on that dial...

Maybe 200-300 rounds. Not very many at all. Might need a decent cleaning, actually...

Pretty sure I'm running your recipe straight up. CCI #41.

Alright @98Z5V and @BigNate I got out to run some testers through my 16" Wilson Combat. I only have an 8x LPVO on this thing, but I was shooting pretty solid. Trigger pull was consistent and the crosshairs were steady. As solid as one can at only 8 power. I'd venture to say I could easily clean these up with a little more magnification, but it's what's on there for now. The plan is to develop a 75 gr load for this, get a 10x on there and shoot the restricted class one day out at the Accurized AR Match. But for now I'll just play around with it until the funds become available for another optic. @98Z5V preferred load, 24.2 gr of RE 15 was a little slower than I'm looking for with this setup. I was barely under an inch with 24.1 and 24.3. 24.2 blew out a little bit to just over an inch. Not terrible but the SD's were heading in the right direction as it got faster. (accuracy node) 24.3 got me 2670 fps with 11 SD. I ran a couple other powders and it looks like that 75 gr Hornady wants to fly closer to that magic 2750. The book says max load is 24.9 gr, so I'm gonna try and get it there, if I can. I'll keep playing with it. It'll give me something to do... Anyone know where there's a stash of RE 15? Lol

That's a product of every day being a Saturday for the majority of my 20's and into my 30's. Good times! With almost 500,000 rounds through one shotgun, I'd certainly hope I picked something up along the way!

I found the projectiles for sale, but at $1.00 ea I think I'll hold off for a while on playing with those. Lol.

I found these while I was snooping around the other day. https://www.alltacticalus.com/products/norma-101575502-7393923317175-4851 If you're not familiar with Ammoseek.com it's a great starting point for just about everything. They seem to list about 90% of what online.

I did a primer test with my original, unsuppressed load for the 77 gr. It's 24 gr of IMR 8208 XBR running a Federal 205M primer. That's the unsuppressed formula and I've now refined it to 23.5 running a CCI 450 and suppressed. I had a bunch of different primers and just wanted to see what the difference would make on that recipe. Everything was the same with these loads. Powder, bullet, depth, prep, all loaded and all shot at the same time staggered so that results would be consistent. It was really interesting to see the difference between the CCI 41 and the CCI 450 compared to the Federal 205M that I had been running. But as far as the 41 and 450 goes, there is a considerable loss in fps and half the SD. Safe to say that the Remington 7 1/2 did not show well in this test. Take out the flyers and the groups are fairly equal, except for the fps and SD. 70 fps slower and half the SD for the 450. Obviously more testing could be done, but I'm satisfied with sub MOA results. Now that I've refined the load at 23.5 with the CCI 450 I'm printing well under 1 MOA consistently. Scope adjustment between groups. Different day, same load. Damn flyers!

I hear great things about White Oak barrels. Maybe I'll get one when I burn this one out. Get in touch with Bruno Shooters Supply. They had Varget when I was in there last week.

Yep, that's what I'm getting out of that same BA barrel. In testing I have multiple 5 shot groups at or under 3/4". I use IMR 8208-XBR and CCI 450's and have single digit SD's. Working really well. Having trouble finding that powder and I'm down to 2 lbs. I'll try this recipe if I need to. Good to know there's another good one out there. Anyone have a line on 8208 XBR?

@BigNate I just put together 50 test loads with that Hornady 75 gr BTHP w/ cannelure you just ordered to put through my 16" Wilson Combat. CCI #41, annealed and trimmed Lake City Brass. Notice I made 10 of @98Z5V preferred load so that I can give them a fair shake in testing. Trying 3 different powders. At 2.250" OAL, the cannelure is perfect and crimps just like it's factory. Looking for that magic 2750 fps and under 1 MOA without pressure signs. I'll letcha know how they work out.

Ah, yes. Wind. The great equalizer...

I guess you should use what you have, but I've never been able to get a 62 gr Green tip to group any better than a shotgun pattern. Lol. That scope should work exactly well for you. Check these out: https://www.armorally.com/shop/hornady-75-bthp-match-22-caliber/

I had that exact barrel and it shot REALLY well. From what I've seen, PSA has Tool Craft make all their BCG's. I actually just bought another one from them. So no issue there, either. (Just tell @98Z5V you have all Aero parts so he doesn't blow you up. I use a lot of PSA stuff. He doesn't fuk with me too bad. But he can't until he actually beats me. ) Having a decent piece of glass on top will be well worth your while as well. One of my buddies that shot with us had a $100 Weaver and that was his biggest struggle the whole match. Had a real small window of eye relief, like 3/4" and just cross hairs, no BDC, no hash marks. If it wasn't for inferior glass, he would likely have done a ton better. And there's no reason you can't run a 308 that you already have dialed in. There's a class for that, with only a handful of guys running them. In my opinion, from what I know, there's 4 things that you need to do well in this style of shooting. Or any style of this shooting, for that matter. Barrel, bullets/ammo, glass and trigger. The rest is just fancy stuff.