survivalshop Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) I was looking at the Ramshot Load data & I have been loading with Tac Powder with in the .223 load data & stumbled across their load data for the 5.56 pressure data & since I have some of their X-Terminator , which is said to be good for the 5.56 loads , I tried some out the other day while doing some Chrono testing for the 25-45 Sharps . Some good results were got , even though I was testing in the beginning of a Thunder storm & the last two were in a pouring rain & done with quick shooting . all were MOA & some if I took my time I'm sure would have been sub MOA . Rifle has a 24" , 1-10 Ultra Match Barrel from Olympic Arms & was installed when built in the late seventies . Bullet was 62 gr. Hornady FMJHP Powder / Charge wt. Avg. Vel. ES SD # 13 , X-Terminator 24.0 gr. 3044 fps 59 26 # 14 ,X-Terminator 24.3 gr. 3080 fps 7 3 # 12 ,X-Terminator 24.5 gr. 3097 fps 5 2 # 17 ,Tac 24.8 gr. 3053 fps 45 22 # 16 ,Tac 25.0 gr. 3066 fps 25 12 # 15 ,Tac 25.5 gr. 3118 fps. 20 10 Interesting results , I'm kinda digging the X-Terminator for consistency & will do more testing . I was sighting in a different scope on the 24" so they were all over the paper until I got them on center , of course by then I had gusting 30 knot wind & a down pour . I will post the target with the better outline of the %.56 loads , but it can be seen in the 25-45 Sharps reloading Thread , its the # 2 Target . Edited June 17, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Ramshot Tac is a very good powder for loading heavy 5.56 cartridges. I used to use it for the 75 and 77gr loads, then switched to Varget (then, couldn't find it for a few years), and ultimately switched to RL-15. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up more Tac for the 5.56 heavies, at all - I just don't look for it when I'm picking up powder. Tac gets the 77gr SMKs to 2750fps with ease. Here's a bookmark I keep for Tac and 77s... https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/mk-262-black-hills-blue-box-77-grain.674792/ Edited June 17, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Is the COL the same with 55grs. and the 75-77grn ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 thanks bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted June 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) The Test Rifle ( has a different scope on it now ). I know 69 gr. SMK work well with this twist rate & also 53 gr. SMK shoot very good , I never tried 77 gr. , the 62 gr. are not bad also . If you look at the X-terminator ES &SD , they should be a better load If I wasn't in a hurry for the shots , I know all would have been better . I will make up the same loads & some a little different & I think I have a few 69 gr. SMK's left .Also , I was zeroing in the scope at the same time . Edited June 17, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I've found TAC to work very well in 77 gr BTHP. Not the best, but very respectable. TAC is lights out in the 762x51 with 168 BTHP! Edited June 18, 2017 by mineralman55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 20 hours ago, survivalshop said: The Test Rifle ( has a different scope on it now ). I know 69 gr. SMK work well with this twist rate & also 53 gr. SMK shoot very good , I never tried 77 gr. I don't know if the 77gr projectiles would do "well" in that barrel, but they might. Typically, I'd give the recommendation to not shoot that combo, because you should need a 1:7" or 1:8" twist to properly stabilize the 75s and 77s. I put quotes around "well" above - your rifle will shoot them, for certain - you typically wouldn't get the accuracy out of them with a 10-twist that you would with 7 or 8... However... I've got this sneaky feeling that YOUR rifle would shoot 75s and 77s with great accuracy, and here's where that feeling comes from. First, it's an Olympic Arms barrel, which are notoriously accurate (really, not making a joke - people that dog Oly obviously have never shot one of their barrels). Second, it's not just the "regular" Oly barrel, it's the Ultra Match barrel, and those things are RIDICULOUSLY ACCURATE. Third, you're working with 24" of barrel... I think that thing would do pretty damn great with some 75s and 77s. I really do. Just a feeling, and that would go against normal recommendations for ammo-for-twist combinations. Now I kinda want to see it. If you want, I'll ship you out a T&E care package of Hornady 75gr HPBTs and Sierra 77gr OTMs for loading... I've gotten a very, very slight accuracy edge with the Hornady 75s over the 77 SMKs, so I primarily only load the Hornadys anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted June 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I think your right about the Barrel length & how most Bullets will shoot , the reason the 1-7 is used on the M4 with heavy Bullets is because of the short barrel . I have tried the 69 gr. SMK @ 200 yards & they shot real good , but at the time I still had the A2 Upper & Sights on , as I built it . Now with a Flat top & Scope , the rifle may shoot very well indeed . I did notice something shooting this rifle with these loads , some fired Brass were landing on my bare Arm & made me stop to clear the hot freaking thing off me . this has all the original Buffer components in it & before I shoot again , I will change out the Buffer Spring with a new one , I just happen to have a couple laying around . Might change out the Bolt component Springs also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 That 1:7" twist first came in the M16A2, to better handle the tracers, which are weirdass bullets to begin with. Later, it was automatically adopted into the original M4A1 with the 14.5" gov profile barrel. Colt knew what the hell it was doing. Back to M16 stuff - However, at the time, all we had was the 62gr M855 projectile, which ran better in the 1:7" twist than it did in the M16A1 1:9" twist. 55gr M193 was still around, but the big push was to switch all units over to the M855, whether they had the M16A1 or the M16A2. I got into quite the pissing match with a cadre-base in an NCO training school over this - as they didn't understand the concepts behind it all. Went to a school, and the WHOLE cadre were talking shiit about weapons qual, which was a grad criteria. They were all talking poop about how "You might think you can qual at a certain level at your HOME unit, but WE conduct the qual REAL here - you WILL qual LOWER than you do at your home unit - because WE do it REAL HERE!" Alright, motherfuckers, it's on now... They asked us before the range what we usually qual at home station... easy answer for me - "Scaled paper targets or pop-up range, doesn't matter, I shoot 40/40 and Expert, every single time." They laughed - "You won't do that HERE, not at our REAL RANGE with REAL STANDARDS!" Cool, we'll see - you dickheads will eat your words... So, we run the qual range. M16A1 rifles (training house, with old shiit), and all they can get is M16A2 ammo those days, which was the M855 62gr green tip. That M16A1 barrel, with the 1:9" twist wasn't gonna stabilize those 62gr fatties as well as it would have run some 55gr M193, but it's not a bad rifle with that ammo, at distance - IF you know your holds at 250 and 300 yards for it. And I did... Shot a 40/40 on a pop-up range... They almost shiit, and started making excuses. "Well, you got lucky," and "once in awhile someone comes through here and doesn't do bad..." Eat a dick, you idiots. By course design, later in the course of instruction, we had to give a student-led presentation. My topic was on barrel twist rates vs. projectile weights, and how that affects accuracy at distance... They didn't know what the fuk I was talking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted June 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 To me it looks like the X-Terminator is a better choice for this Barrel , of course ES & SD or Velocity , don't mean good groups , be it close or far ranges , but it sure helps with consistency in groups & basically , isn't that what we are looking for ? I will still load up the next test loads the same way , just to see how the two different Powders print & I want to see how well they do out of my 16"s . A 1-8, Piston & a 1-7 twist, DI . I have been loading all these Tac Powder loads to .223 spec's , I should have read up on it more , as said I some how missed that loading data when I looked this Powder up . Yes Tac shoots well with 155 gr. 308's too ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Only have one 69 gr. SMK , have 5 , 55 gr. SMK 's & about 30, 52 gr. SMK's , so I guess I would have to order some 77 or 75 gr. Bullets , I like the BC of the tipped SMK . The whole thing about this is , I've been setting up all my rifles for the more normal Combat ranges , I have no where to shoot over 200 yards . The place I found that has a 800 yard range is a joke , the bro's at the range tell me none of them will go shoot there again , they have a raised platform that will only seat or accommodate six people & when they move around the platform , it shakes & moves around . F that . So the 62 & 55 gr. loads will do me just fine & I will concentrate on those & my 155 gr. for the 308 , at least until I find a long range facility that won't cost me $ 100 to shoot for a day & is not 100 miles away . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted June 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) I have four loads to test with the 5.56 & Tac, X-Terminator Powders , really two loadings with two different Primers , in two different rifles & I also think I will compare velocities with the 16" Piston Rifle & a 16" DI rifle . all 62 gr. FMJHP Hornady Bullets. X-Terminator - 24.5 gr. W/Remington Bench Rest Primer & CCI primers Tac -- 25.5 gr. W/ Remington Bench Rest Primers & CCI Primers . Will post Chrono Data & Target from both the 24" test Barrel Rifle & a 16" Piston rifle. There will not be a comparison of groups , because of the differences in Barrels & Scope power , with the 24" BBL. having the edge in both categories . Mixed with 25-45 Sharps Edited June 29, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 I had to make more up last night , because I will be testing Velocities with three different rifles . 24" 1-10 ,DI rifle gas , 16" 1-7 , DI Mid gas , 16" 1-8 Mid Gas Superlative Arms Piston system . I want to see if the exhausted gas Piston system looses Velocity compared to the DI gas system ( if at all ). 24" rifle gas , DI , Ultra Match SS HB 1-10 twist rate 16" Mid Gas, DI Wilson s Combat light wt., 1-8, SS Barrel 16" Mid Gas ,Superlative Piston system , Government wt. Brownells Barrel 1-7 Nitrated ( the least expensive bbl. I have ever used in an AR ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) ^^^ This will be a good one. In 5.56, I don't own anything anymore that's not 1:7" or 1:8". In the .308 gas guns, they're all 1:10". In one .308 bolt gun (Kimber), I have 1:12". Edited July 1, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 Some more 5.56 Chrono results from today , I had a very strange ES &SD , we knew it had to be a fluke & I couldn't repeat it so I shot three more rounds of the same load & you can see the results below . I have found a new powder for my 5.56/.223 5.56 POWDER WT. PRIMER BULLET AVG. VEL. ES SD "" Xterm. 24.5 gr. Rem.BR 62 gr. FMJHP 3143 2 1 "" Xterm. 24.5 gr. Rem. BR 62 gr. FMJHP 3143 13 7 "" Xterm. 24.5 gr. CCI 62 gr. FMJHP 3147 19 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Holy SHAT!!! ES of 2, and SD of 1!!! What were those CCI primers? 400s, 450s, or 41s? Edited August 23, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Holy SHAT!!! ES of 2, and SD of 1!!! What were those CCI primers? 400s, 450s, or 41s? STD CCI , I think their # is 400 . That was a cold rifle , first shot group , so pretty much a fluke . Interesting avg. Vel., I don't think I have ever had some that close , even though they were the same Powder charge . I always like to see how Primers change the equation , even though its small , these were new CCI & the Remington BR were much older , 6-7 years old . Edited August 23, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) I load almost everything that's a small rifle primer with CCI 400s, but I use the CCI 41s for a couple different loads. Hornady 75gr HPBT loads, Barnes 70gr TSX loads, Sierra 77gr SMK loads (when I even load those anymore-which is seldom). For several years now, I've been on the hornady 75s for the 5.56 heavy loads - I've seen a very, very slight accuracy advantage with those, over the 77 SMKs. 7" twist barrels show it the most, but I've got a few 8" twist barrels that like the Hornady 75s better, too. I've got one 16" .223 Wylde barrel with an 8" twist that is just stupid accurate with 69gr SMKs, though. It's fucking ridiculous. If you decide to try the CCI 41s, drop a full grain on your charge, and work back up - they make a difference... Edited August 24, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 0:10 AM, 98Z5V said: I load almost everything that's a small rifle primer with CCI 400s, but I use the CCI 41s for a couple different loads. Hornady 75gr HPBT loads, Barnes 70gr TSX loads, Sierra 77gr SMK loads (when I even load those anymore-which is seldom). For several years now, I've been on the hornady 75s for the 5.56 heavy loads - I've seen a very, very slight accuracy advantage with those, over the 77 SMKs. 7" twist barrels show it the most, but I've got a few 8" twist barrels that like the Hornady 75s better, too. I've got one 16" .223 Wylde barrel with an 8" twist that is just stupid accurate with 69gr SMKs, though. It's fucking ridiculous. If you decide to try the CCI 41s, drop a full grain on your charge, and work back up - they make a difference... I'm going to do 10 shot avg. Chrono tests , now that I have a couple loads to work off of . At the same time I will use a 1-7 & 1-8 16" bbl. rifles also to test with the 1-10 , 24" bbl.rifle , the 1-7 is a Piston system with a ported adjustable regulator , which I'm curious about its difference to the 16" DI Rifle . As far as the Heavy Bullets , that may come later, but I have a good supply of 62 & 55 gr. Bullets of all sorts to try . I have a solid Copper 55 gr. HP that is custom made , I got about 1K of them & 500 169 gr. 30 cal. from the manufacturer to test . The 30 cal. are about gone & really never found a loading that worked very will with them , but the .223 bullets have shown some good groupings in a couple loadings . Solid Copper experimental Bullets . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 (edited) Copper solids will surprise you - I load the 70TSX identical to the 75 Hornady HPBT - due to the length of the 70TSX. The solid copper weighs a little less than lead bullets, but man are they long (due to that). Here's a comparo of the (left to right) Sierra 77 SMK to Barnes 70 TSX: Edited August 27, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 Those I posted above are long too . I think if they had more groves in them like the ones you show , they would shoot better , if I had a Lathe I would tune som more into some to try it . Barnes went to more Groves a while Back . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 Damn , I knocked over my test loads for the 5.56 loads that I was going to test in the two 16" bbl's & they mixed up when the lid opened , now I have to load some more of the same to test . I tried to weigh them , but it was inconclusive as to what was what , they were too close , Damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alamo Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Howdy, I too am using the TAC for .223. Loading the Barnes 70 gr TSX over 22.3 gr of powder & CCI #400 to 2.250 OAL. Just starting with this load in this caliber, but I really like Barnes in .308 and have been using that for some time. 98Z, you mentioned you're using #41's for your 70 gr TSX loads. Is there some particular reason, did you experience any funkiness/ failure to ignite at a certain point with the #400's or are you just heading off possible troubles at the pass? Reason I'm asking is the kid at the reloading counter gave me a couple boxes of #450 the other day (basically equivalent to #41 right?) and I didn't realize it until I got home. I ended up sticking em in some once fired LC brass I had laying around, they're just waiting to get charged up. I worry that my gun stuff will get into mischief if it's just sitting around idly, "Devil's Hands" and all that, so I try to utilize as quickly and as often as possible. Figure I'll use those cases to do some 5.56 loads under the 70 gr TSX with the Barnes data (perhaps 25 gr of powder to start). http://www.barnesbullets.com/files/2016/03/5.56-NATO-16.5in-Barrel.pdf BTW, I'm shooting them out of an 18" 1/8 twist Palmetto State Armory barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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