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Don't fuckin' reply, and clog the thread up. READ the info, and soak it up.    Look at this thread as a READ-ONLY THREAD, and resist your urge to respond to it...

If you wanna reply, and talk shiit, then do it here - this is the shiit-talkin' thread, below - Hit the Matt-Cross link I inserted below...  NOT this one.  Information, information, information...  Nothing to see here, move along after it soaks into your brainpan...  Hit the link below to expouse your superior professionalism and general badassed-ness of yourself...




Edited by 98Z5V
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Basic Schedule is SET.  Shoot dates are solid, 18~21 October 2018, are the "firing dates."

Wednesday, 17 October 2018 - many people arriving, getting into Phoenix.  Pre-shoot prep will go down this day, as well as numerous trips to the airport.  We need to coordinate arrival times of flights, if flights haven't been made. 

The FIRST person arriving, that is confirmed, lands in Phoenix at 9:10am local.  If we can KEEP arrival times to "sometime in the morning" of the 17th, then we can accomplish alot more.  Think about that, if you're a flyer...  Or get your own rental car...   :laffs:

Thursday, 18 October 2018 - first day on the range.  We arrive, set up short-course action, and y'all get your lead out. Just do it,shoot it, get it out of your system.  We "refine" the range that day, add 300 to 450 through one canyon, and out to 660 to the north, for intermediate range.  Night shoot will happen on that night.

Friday, 19 October 2018 - Long Range Day.  Our max limit is 2200 yards - we'll only have 2 guns that can do it, both in .338 Lapua Magnum.  We can set up just about anything shorter than that, too,and we already have known-distances at 500 and 845 yards, confirmed.  We'll go WAY longer than that, this trip. I ALMOST bought a .416 Barrett for this one event, just to fuk up the two .338 LM guys.  There's gonna be a .416 Barret at the Fall Shoot next year, count your money now...   Make your bets.  I'm taking your money...   :banana:

Saturday, 20 October 2018 - back to Base Camp, with more short-range and intermediate work.  Many competitions will go down this day, feelings are gonna get hurt, butts will hurt, and somebody's walking away BRAGGING...   :lmao:

Sunday, 21 October 2018 - High Angle Day.  Last day out there.  Short-range work will get shut down for this - because we would be DOWNRANGE of your target area, when we're up in the hills, shooting down...  For those that don't hike up the hill, you will only have the intermediate distance target to fire at.  600-ish yards.

Sometime after mid-day, we'll break down camp and head back to my house.  Matt flies out at 11pm Sunday night. I encourage all others that don't have tickets yet - fly out on Monday, 22 October 2018...  :thumbup:

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Matt and I are getting our geek on, and computing shooting distances from the Long Range shot-location, to the distances.  The easiest one we can pull is due west (shot angle of 274 degrees).  We can go 1.22 miles, and still have a backstop that will prevent us from "going over..."

IT.  IS.  ON.

The MRAD will do it.  The Win Mag will have trouble, at that distance.  I don't think the Grendels have a chance, at 2,147 yards.  FUK ME, the Win Mag isn't getting there, either. Not 2K yards.

Ron, this is ALL UP TO YOU, BROTHER...   Rob, if you bring your .338 Lapua out, that's another option. No one else can do this...

You do it enough, and learn the techniques/science/math behind it, and you have a foundation to build on for future training. That's the goal of the Long Range event at the Fall Shoot - longer distance fundamentals.  Learn the basics of distance. You''ll have wind to contend with, no matter what, out here.  Ammo selection is key, as well as optics setup.  You'll see for yourself, that 800 yards is child's play.  This is also exactly why we're steering a separate event towards high angle shooting. It's WAY different when it's not a flat range.  


We had people that had never fired a bolt action rifle before, lay down behind a gun and plant a 660-yard 605-yard shot (last fall) centermass on an IPSC steel plate. First round.

I'll try to get ahead of this a little bit, for planning purposes.  I'll be running Long Range and High Angle (two separate events, two separate days).  I'm planning for this to be a true 4-day event, overall.  Others will be running the short course events, and medium range events (out to 660 yards max). If you can attend all 4 days, that's great. 

On Long Range day, we will physically be in a different location, than "normal camp."  We will truck over there, with gear.  All the short course and medium range can go on without interruption at the base location, in conjunction with Long Range.  The Long Range location is not that far from base camp, but you wouldn't want to walk it, and haul your gear - you'll just get there tired, and that will affect your shooting.  So, we truck it.

For the Long Range event, you don't need anything specialized, besides gun/ammo/magnified optic, but you will need to know the performance of your ammo.  You need to know the ballistic coefficient of the projectile, muzzle velocity, weight of the projectile, etc.  You need the data on your ammo. You also need to know your scope.  It would be highly, highly preferrable that you bring a drop chart for your rifle/ammo combo with you, for each rifle that you want to shoot at longer distances.  You can make your own DOPE chart right here:


The "Trajectory Simplified" chart linked above is more than sufficient for what you will be doing.

Since we're trucking over there, supplies and gear will not be an issue - we can pack whatever we'll need; that's not a concern.  This will be a daylight event, so we'll be back at base camp for dinner.

Now, High Angle day is different.  There are no trucks going anywhere up that hill.  This event will shut down much of the short course action, due to ricochets and what-not.  Not going through that again.  It will shut down the primary shooting for short course, up into the draw that we shot out to 450 yards (and night shoots) on previous events.  We're going UP that bigass hill, and shooting downwards. Primary firing direction will be due south, away from camp (which is due west from the hilltop firing positions). 

With that said, you need to be able to haul your gear (and your a$s) up that hill.  You will need a water-carrying capability. I recommend a 3L Camelbak, or similar product, at a minimum.  100oz bladder, minimum.  Carry more if you want, but water is 8lbs per gallon, for load carrying planning purposes.  Ammo weight is also a concern - AR15 30rd mags weigh 1lb, loaded.  .308 AR 20rd mags weigh 2lbs, loaded.  Rifle weight is, what it is.  If you're carrying multiple weapons, plan for that weight as well, both rifle and ammo.  You WILL need a sling on each weapon - you want to walk uphill basically hands-free of your weapon/s.  You will need gloves - you don't want to stop a fall, or a "tip" and catch your body weight on those sharpass rocks, with unprotected hands.  You will need a basic calculator.  Yes, you will.  I will walk you through rudimentary angle calculations and cosign information that will aid you in making angle shots - and I will give you that info prior to going uphill - you'll need to take that info, and use the calculator to compute your horizontal distance to target, over multiple targets.  You MUST be able to estimate range, through your scope.  Mil-dots, MOA, whatever. Cheat and use a laser range finder, quite alright - but that doesn't help you learn, that way.  It's like map reading and land navigation - any monkey can run a GPS, but if you can't truly read a map, use a protractor, and a compass - what good will your GPS be when the battery dies. You have nothing to fall back on...   Know how to estimate range with your magnified optic.  Your DOPE chart will also come in handy, from the day prior, on the Long Range event.

You will need sun protection - we'll be on that hill for a big chunk of the day. I recommend a boonie hat to keep the sun off your neck, and a long sleeved shirt to keep the sun off your arms - no matter what the ambient air temp is.

You will need the appropriate "carrying devices" to pack your gear and get it up the hill, be it a backpack, chest rig, ALICE gear, whatever.

I will be carrying limited Med Gear - gunshot wound/bleeding  items, bee stings/anaphylactic shock, wraps and SAM splints, and snakebite kit. Don't sweat the Med Gear, I got it.

For Attendees - Long Range and High Angle are not mandatory events.  In fact, we will certainly need people back at the base camp during the Long Range event.  Short course work can go on unabated during the Long Range work, and it provides people back at the base...

Reason for posting all that was for financial planning purposes, as the Fall Shoot is closer than we all think it is - we're 5 months out, right now.  I have multiple chest rigs configured for other things, but I just ended up getting a new setup specifically to haul my shiit up that hill for High Angle day - a dedicated rig for long distance shooting, and walking it all in.  For planning purposes, figuring out the money for stuff like this needs to be accounted for, in addition to everything else...

Bring or arrange to have a shooting mat. Even if you don't employ the thing in the standard manner, it can make a weird-shaped rock into a very workable supported position.

You covered hydration and sunblock and hats, so that's good. 

If you wear contacts like I do, have adequate changes to cover each day you'll be there, as well as eye hydration and contact rinse. Eyes and ears are important, protect them at all costs. Wind and sand defy even very good eye protection, so have a way to get that cleared up ahead of time. There are precious few times that we go cold range, so have good hearing protection on your person at all times.

Bee & wasp spray would be nice to have on hand, not an issue in Spring but definitely a needed feature for Fall.

Temperature can fall off pretty steeply at night, pack something warm because the really interesting conversations happen in the coldest part of the night and you don't want to miss out.

For the Long Range event, you don't need anything specialized, besides gun/ammo/magnified optic, but you will need to know the performance of your ammo.  You need to know the ballistic coefficient of the projectile, muzzle velocity, weight of the projectile, etc.  You need the data on your ammo. You also need to know your scope.  It would be highly, highly preferrable that you bring a drop chart for your rifle/ammo combo with you, for each rifle that you want to shoot at longer distances.  You can make your own DOPE chart right here:


Here's the primary reason I stated this, and why it's important for you to know.

From a technology standpoint, I stepped up for the Spring Shoot this year, and we all grew in "capabilities" for distance shooting.

$820 range finder ($1,490 with Kestrel Sportsman)

Street prices are closer to $700 for the rangefinder alone and $1,150 combined for the Kestrel bundle.

I didn't pay nearly that, not even close, when I found the range finder on sale for $299 (with a 30% back promo running from Bushnell at the time, making the thing $200) and $360 for the new and improved Kestrel 5700 Sportsman...  I killed this deal, and jumped all over it, and had it rushed here before SS18.  We didn't even know the capabilities of it yet during SS18, as it all arrived the day prior to the shoot...




Here's the last shot we computed through it, during SS18 - this was for the 12.5" Grendel, too.  10 mils of drop at 846 yards...   ?


If you know your ammo data, I can input it into this system, and we can make long distance shots MUCH easier. You need to find that data. You need to bring that data.  We will input that data.  This will shortcut everything on Long Range day, and aid in your shooting. It's not a "replacement" - but more of an aid in getting what's really going on with your gun/ammo.  We will perform "ballistic truing" on your hits, and come up with the real DOPE on your scope. 

If you know your load, and you can send me that data ahead of time, I can build your profile before you get here, and have it in the menu to select, on the Kestrel.  Ready to go.  This is an unreal advancement in capabilities, it's just nuts...

Here's a bitchin' article from Recoil Magazine on the technology available, and this combo is in it.  "Pull out your laptop and get your geek on..."  :laffs:



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For the Long Distance day, here's something that needs to be considered, and I've been doing this for a long time now.  Ammo selection, for distance.  You need heavy projectiles (except for the MRAD, that thing doesn't care...  :banana:).  If you plan on shooting the Long Range day, get the right ammo for your rifle, and it'll be alot better on you, for that event.

A quote from this article:




For example, a Sierra 175-grain HPBT bullet has a listed B.C. of 0.505. If we changed the bullet to a lighter Sierra 168-grain HPBT with a listed B.C. of 0.462, then it will drop 46 inches more at 1,000 yards because it is less efficient and therefore takes longer to reach the target. Even if both bullets leave the rifle at 2,600 feet per second, the more efficient bullet will be traveling over 100 feet per second faster at 1,000 yards.


I've been running Hornady 178gr HPBT projectiles for all my longer distance .308 Win loads for a few years now.  The sectional density is .268 and the G1 drag model BC is .530.  Way better than the Sierra 175gr HPBT listed above, at .505 G1 BC.  This load performs.

For the SS18 event, Matt and I loaded up 50 rounds of Hornady 195gr HPBT rounds in the .308 Win, and we didn't get to shoot them.  That's my .300 Win Mag projectile.  Found a load in the Hornady 10 Manual that listed this projectile at a 2.800" COAL, under the .308 Win loading section, so we figured "WHAT THE HELL!!!" We loaded them, but didn't shoot any of them - we were "overcome by events" out there.  The sectional density on that beast is .294 and the G1 BC on that 195-grainer is .550 - it'll be a better load, at distance, then even the 178s.  It will leave the barrel a little slower, but it will get to the longer target in a more efficient manner.

Get the correct ammo for the event, guys, if you plan on shooting it.  :thumbup:

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Night Shoots have become a regular, mandatory activity on the last two shoots.  Yeah, bring a pistol light and a carbine light (or one light that works on both), so we can shoot some short-course stuff at night.  Check.  Got it.

We shoot distance at night.  Distances at the Fall Shoot 2017 were 200 yards and 450 yards, at night.  Long gun. For Spring Shoot 2018, we shot 375 yards. 

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This is the information thread. Only information, for Fall Shoot Attendees.  Learn it, know it, don't show up stupid.  Heed the words, click all the links to info, and get here, on location,  ready. 

There's no babysitting going on, when people show up and say, "I didn't know THAT..."

Uh, yeah, you shoulda...  had you read before you left your patrol base... 

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2 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

What did I leave out, Matt?  What pertinent info has been left behind, brother?...


Quote your heart away...

If you have ANY QUESTIONS, ask them now in the Fall Shoot thread. What gear you will need for which shoots, etc.

What you need to bring bare minimum regardless:

Pillow, sleeping bag, pocket knife/multitool, bug spray, sunblock, spare mags for every gun you bring, portable liquid container(s) for hydration, OWB holster if you bring your pistol, flashlight/weapon light, spare contacts if you wear them, eye rinsing kit, sunglasses, ball cap or other suitable hat, camp chairs if ya got 'em, scope caps are always a good idea (sand & optics aren't an ideal mix), whatever prescription meds you need.

I'll think of more as the thread wears on....

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I locked this, just in case....

PS. If your build/buy a .416 Barrett, I'll make something to kill it.... I may have a .510 caliber barrel blank sitting on my bench looking for a home. My buddy resizes the 20mm Vulcan down to a 1700gr 12.7mm projectile. He turns his own projectile for it.... That's a LOT of copper!

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you want to buy ammo for the Fall Shoot, I'm now able to acquire ammo at dealer cost. I will ship the ammo and have it waiting for you at my cost. You only pay dealer cost for ammo, I take care of the rest.

If you want to have ammo waiting for you, PM me what you need and I'll let you know the cost.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/17/2018 at 7:03 PM, 98Z5V said:

Don't fuckin' reply, and clog the thread up. READ the info, and soak it up.    Look at this thread as a READ-ONLY THREAD, and resist your urge to respond to it...

It's getting closer, men. We're less than 3 months out now.

Plan your gig, plan your rig. Plan you ammo, most importantly.  I've received not one ammo solution yet, from anyone, on their ammo dope.  I can't plug in your ammo specifics into the Applied Ballistics Kestrel weather meter, if I don't know your ammo specifics... 

PM me the info, don't clog this tread. :thumbup:

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  • 1 month later...

Bump - We're 1.5 months out now, and I haven't had a single load PM'd to me yet.  Know your load, know your ammo - research the data on your favorite ammo - for Long Range Day.  It's GONNA make a difference...  PM me the details...

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