Crimsonboat Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Does anyone have any experience with this scope? I'm seriously looking at getting it but I have a few unanswered questions. 1: mounting to an AR platform would require a riser scope mount, correct? Which would require a stock with an adjustable comb height? 2: obviously with such a large objective lense it will do very well in low light conditions but is it that much better than a scope of the same price point with a 50mm objective lense? And 3: (kinda off topic) would a scope with a 50mm objective lense require a riser mount/adjustable comb height? Sorry for the dumb questions, somewhat new to the scope scene and there isn't much info out there about this scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 What caliber are you shooting, and what's that Vortex Crossfire gonna cost you? I have better recommendations, based on your caliber... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Not all mounts are created equal when it comes to scope mount height for the picatinny rail. Optimum is the lowest one that will clear the objective or basically place the center of the scope closest to the center of the barrel. The higher the scope is mounted the steeper the angle the bullet has to take to cross the line of sight. This can make for interesting mid-range trajectory with some set-ups. Vortex for the most part makes pretty decent scopes. I have two of them here, one diamondback and a cross-fire going from memory. Despite not being the higher end viper variety they have super clear optics and no issues with either one to date. Even with that said my dedicated hunting rifles for our out West outings get topped with Leupold's (older VX-II and III's), but it even appears now that they are wondering into the lower end market......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonboat Posted November 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 It's going to be a .308. The scope should cost somewhere around $300-350. I have a vortex 1-6 on my 14.5 ar15 and I really like the scope. I've shot a lot of Leopold's in the past and I really liked them but the vortex lifetime warranty is hard to pass up. I'm mostly interested in this specific scope for the low light shooting but if it's a huge hassle and not much difference between a 56mm and 50mm objective lense then I would just forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Vortex has really stepped into this game pretty hard. A good friend of mine who passed recently was a big part of their success. He represented them thru his business here on the East Coast. I tried a couple of them out on lesser quality rifles that I own as mentioned, good quality for the money. Even with that said there are a lot of lesser name optics on the market that make the grade and get raving reviews, so it pays to shop around some. For me It's still tough to move away from Leupold as they have proved to be worth every penny on the dedicated hunting rifles I've used out West for the past 3 decades or so. I've lost count of the HARD falls I've taken, a few right on the rifle or the scope but I usually try to save them vs myself! Never had one deviate even the slightest from zero no matter how much abuse they've seen.......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 24, 2019 Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) Alright, without any real answers to what I asked you, here's what I'm gonna advise you on anyway. .308 Winchester round through an AR. Primary Arms 4-14x44 ACSS HUD DMR .308 scope, in a LaRue LT-158 mount. If you want my reasons for telling you that, answer what I asked you before. Edited November 24, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonboat Posted November 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 Speaking of not answering questions, how does that recommendation answer any of my questions? I asked about a scope with a 56mm objective lense vs a 50mm. How is suggesting a 44mm objective lense scope applicable to this post? Let me clarify, I'm not asking you to tell me what scope I should get. I'm asking if someone has experience with scopes with large objective lenses and mounting them on an ar platform and the difference of their low light shooting qualities. Furthermore, if I dont answer your questions then just dont respond to my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted November 24, 2019 Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 24, 2019 Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 6 hours ago, Crimsonboat said: Speaking of not answering questions, how does that recommendation answer any of my questions? I asked about a scope with a 56mm objective lense vs a 50mm. How is suggesting a 44mm objective lense scope applicable to this post? Let me clarify, I'm not asking you to tell me what scope I should get. I'm asking if someone has experience with scopes with large objective lenses and mounting them on an ar platform and the difference of their low light shooting qualities. Furthermore, if I dont answer your questions then just dont respond to my post. Yeah, I have a lot of experience shooting in low light, with that very scope, and it's way better than that Vortex Crossfire that you're looking at. That's exactly why I suggested it in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted November 24, 2019 Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Yeah, I have a lot of experience shooting in low light, with that very scope, and it's way better than that Vortex Crossfire that you're looking at. That's exactly why I suggested it in the first place. @CrimsonboatI have personally seen 98Z5V (and Matt Cross) consistently nailing targets with the only illumination on the target being a flashlight propped on the ground in front of the target and the target was 500 yds away. No moonlight at the time either! He definitely has low light shooting experience. Edited November 24, 2019 by 392heminut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 I’m confused. While not entirely off topic, what question didn’t get answered? I saw what caliber and what does the scope cost. Then I saw the answer of .308 and $300-350. did I miss something somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Rut Roh......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) On 11/24/2019 at 6:58 PM, DNP said: did I miss something somewhere? Yeah, you missed me, missing him answering that, and that's MY fault, and MY apology to @Crimsonboat for it... I clicked the "update" link, and it took me to the last post made - and I didn't READ UP, where he answered that price and caliber question... Bottom line is this - that Vortex Crossfire is Vortex's entry level scope, and it's not that great. A 3-12 scope with a 56mm objective - that 56mm objective is gonna be a BITCH to mount on an AR, without having some crazy-high rings - which is gonna fuk your checkweld and scope acquisition up. My recommendations were simple - you don't need that entry-level scope, with a huge 56mm objective, to shoot in low-light (or no light), and it offers zero benefits - and the price is too high for it. You'll get into High or Extra High scope mounts to make a 56mm Obj work on an AR, and it fuks everything else with your shooting up. Recommendation #1 - LaRue LT-158 mount. You can have it in 1" or 30mm. It has 10 MOA of cant built into it. It clears 44mm objective lenses, and it clears 50mm objective lenses, on an AR, and I have a few of each to show the clearance. It will not clear a 56mm obj. Very few one-piece mounts out there will. You're stuck with rings, then, and High or Extra High - and they need to fit on the upper receiver. That's just a pain-in-the-ass to go through, figuring it out, trying to make it work, on a 56mm obj lense on an entry-level scope - that's not gonna do that well in the long run, -------- Recommendation #2 - Primary Arms .308 ACSS HUD DMR scope, 44mm obj lense. It's a GREAT reticle for a .308 Win round, you don't dial anything at distance once you practice with it, it has 5mph and 10mph wind holds built into the reticle, it has ranging built into the reticle, it has an illuminated center section, and it ranges to 1000 yards, in the reticle. No dialing - all calibrated holds. It's EXCELLENT in low-light or no-light. It doesn't need another 12mm of objective lense to work well in low-light or no-light. ...for what the OP asked about. Low-light. So, once again - my apologies to @Crimsonboat for my post of "no comment" - when you indeed did comment, and I didn't see/read it. That's MY fault. You can get that Vortex scope if you want - but I just gave you reasons that it's not gonna work that well for what you want, on this platform. Edited November 26, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 I thought I was losing it, or missed something from somewhere else. I couldn’t figure out why he was catching a bunch of crap. Thank you for the acknowledgment of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonboat Posted November 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 9 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Yeah, you missed me, missing him answering that, and that's MY fault, and MY apology to @Crimsonboat for it... I clicked the "update" link, and it took me to the last post made - and I didn't READ UP, where he answered that price and caliber question... Bottom line is this - that Vortex Crossfire is Vortex's entry level scope, and it's not that great. A 3-12 scope with a 56mm objective - that 56mm objective is gonna be a BITCH to mount on an AR, without having some crazy-high rings - which is gonna fuk your checkweld and scope acquisition up. My recommendations were simple - you don't need that entry-level scope, with a huge 56mm objective, to shoot in low-light (or no light), and it offers zero benefits - and the price is too high for it. You'll get into High or Extra High scope mounts to make a 56mm Obj work on an AR, and it fuks everything else with your shooting up. Recommendation #1 - LaRue LT-158 mount. You can have it in 1" or 30mm. It has 10 MOA of cant built into it. It clears 44mm objective lenses, and it clears 50mm objective lenses, on an AR, and I have a few of each to show the clearance. It will not clear a 56mm obj. Very few one-piece mounts out there will. You're stuck with rings, then, and High or Extra High - and they need to fit on the upper receiver. That's just a pain-in-the-ass to go through, figuring it out, trying to make it work, on a 56mm obj lense on an entry-level scope - that's not gonna do that well in the long run, -------- Recommendation #2 - Primary Arms .308 ACSS HUD DMR scope, 44mm obj lense. It's a GREAT reticle for a .308 Win round, you don't dial anything at distance once you practice with it, it has 5mph and 10mph wind holds built into the reticle, it has ranging built into the reticle, it has an illuminated center section, and it ranges to 1000 yards, in the reticle. No dialing - all calibrated holds. It's EXCELLENT in low-light or no-light. It doesn't need another 12mm of objective lense to work well in low-light or no-light. ...for what the OP asked about. Low-light. So, once again - my apologies to @Crimsonboat for my post of "no comment" - when you indeed did comment, and I didn't see/read it. That's MY fault. You can get that Vortex scope if you want - but I just gave you reasons that it's not gonna work that well for what you want, on this platform. This is exactly what I was needing to know. I have been looking into that primary arms scope since you recommended it and I wish I had known about them sooner. I'm not savvy with the scopes yet as I have only owned one and it's a vortex and it's been great as far as my limited knowledge is concerned. If I may, do you have any experience with the 3-18x50 from primary arms? It also seems like a pretty outstanding scope. At almost twice the price point though. I'd be ok with that if it was worth the difference. I'm not crazy about the ACSS HUD reticle but I do like the r grid 2 b or the BPR MIL reticle in the 3-18. I am just unsure of how accurate a holdover system can be with so many differing variables. With the mil dot system if I understand it correctly you basically set your own drop compensator based on all the variables. As for the Larue mount, I dont really care for the return to zero aspect as my optics tend to stay on a rifle when they are mounted, I understand the 10 moa cant and how well built the larue mounts are but is it really worth $200? I have the aero ultralight on my ar15, it only weighs like 3 oz and is somewhere around the $60 range. What I dont know is how much cant it has and there isn't any information on their website. I'm assuming the larue is somewhere in the ballpark of 9 oz because that's typical of other mounts I have seen and they dont state the weight on their website. So is the larue worth the added 6 oz and over 3x the cost? Again, newbie here, just trying to get some knowledge. Also @98Z5V thanks for clearing up our miscommunication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Crimsonboat said: This is exactly what I was needing to know. I have been looking into that primary arms scope since you recommended it and I wish I had known about them sooner. I'm not savvy with the scopes yet as I have only owned one and it's a vortex and it's been great as far as my limited knowledge is concerned. If I may, do you have any experience with the 3-18x50 from primary arms? It also seems like a pretty outstanding scope. At almost twice the price point though. I'd be ok with that if it was worth the difference. I'm not crazy about the ACSS HUD reticle but I do like the r grid 2 b or the BPR MIL reticle in the 3-18. I am just unsure of how accurate a holdover system can be with so many differing variables. With the mil dot system if I understand it correctly you basically set your own drop compensator based on all the variables. As for the Larue mount, I dont really care for the return to zero aspect as my optics tend to stay on a rifle when they are mounted, I understand the 10 moa cant and how well built the larue mounts are but is it really worth $200? I have the aero ultralight on my ar15, it only weighs like 3 oz and is somewhere around the $60 range. What I dont know is how much cant it has and there isn't any information on their website. I'm assuming the larue is somewhere in the ballpark of 9 oz because that's typical of other mounts I have seen and they dont state the weight on their website. So is the larue worth the added 6 oz and over 3x the cost? Again, newbie here, just trying to get some knowledge. Also @98Z5V thanks for clearing up our miscommunication. Big post - I'll answer it in colors... What I bold for you above in color, I'll answer in the same color... It's almost like "me like crayons..." because that's how I am. Yes, and they're fantastic. The 3-18 development from them released last year at SHOT Show, after a bunch of companies previously "talked about" releasing 3-18 scopes for the long-distance gaming/competition crowd. PA did it. They didn't announce it, talk about it - they listen to what others were talking about, and made it. I don't have one - but I will - and I saw them at SHOT last year, and they're fantastic. It's all about the illumination on those two. The R-GRID is a center illum dot - the Athena BPR Mil is illuminated for the whole grid - you WANT illum on the whole grid, if you're shooting low-light/no-light, with wind. That entire illuminated grid makes a bigass difference when you're shooting wind, low/no-light. I have other PA scopes that just have the illum center section, and running wind at night is tough, with them, because that whole grid isn't illum. Go Athena BPR Mil, in that case. And yes, for those that think I'm crazy about scope illum - you NEED a scope that dials DOWN enough in the illumination, that it's not TOO bright for what you're shooting. It doesn't matter how BRIGHT it gets - it really matters how DIM it can get. If the lowest level washes out with brightness for what you shoot in low/no-light - then it's worthless. I've commented on this before, and proven it to guys that come out here for the shoots... You can pull that LaRue LT-158 mount for $160, all day, direct from LaRue. You select the VFZ mounting option, which eliminates the quick-detach levers. You lock it on with a provided wrench, that comes with the mount. It's $160 for that mount, in the VFZ flavor. All mine are like that, and I don't have the QD levers on my LaRue LT-158s. The 10MOA of cant is invaluable for distance. It just gives you extra down travel in your scope, for distance, because you have to zero higher, due to the cant in it. I wouldn't do a distance-AR without one - because you're just wasting scope elevation travel without it. There is zero elevation built into any of Aer0 Precision's scope mounts- they're flat. 0 MOA scope mounts. I have a few of those also, and can confirm that. They don't offer a scope mount with elevation built into it. I prefer the Aero scope mounts, if I'm making a lightweight-ish gun, that I'll never shoot beyond 600 yards, and that's based on their weight... If "distance" is a game you'll play, then the LaRue mount will outshine just about anything you can get, you'll never ever be able to break it, and if you get into a traffic accident and bust up your car/truck/whatever, AND your LaRue Mount - you'll get another one from Mark LaRue, for nothing. That takes it for me, right there. There is not better quality, there's higher prices and lower weights - but it's the quality. Select the VFZ Mount option, and see that mount price drop to $160. Edited November 27, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonboat Posted November 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 Well, I've got a lot of stuff on order now. I'll post a build thread when I start getting it all. Thanks for all the insiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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