98Z5V Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 38 minutes ago, Snow_N_Surf said: If you want more power in your vehicle for example. Throw a chip on a stock engine any you're likely to be disappointed (diesel trucks being the exception here. All the systems in the motor work together and if you modify one you may need to modify some others so they work properly and efficiently together. Preachin' to the wrong guy about engine mods, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 18 hours ago, Snow_N_Surf said: Unfortunately, it looks like the aftermarket has only produced a captured spring buffer system for the standardized AR-15 mil spec, probably because that's where the majority of sales lie. It's surprising that this would be considered a logical conclusion, given that a captured spring buffer is designed to satisfy a complaint with a working system, rather than solving any actual problems of function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 22 hours ago, Snow_N_Surf said: I understand why there are different recoil systems, Please explain what you already understand then - spill it. I want to know what you know/understand. I need to see where you stand on this, and why, in order to work with what you know and understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Aaaaaarrrgh. I just spent a bunch of time writing a response and the damn internet at this hotel logged me out. Gotta love technology. Guess it wasn't meant to be. Sorry, tangent, just frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Matt.Cross said: It's surprising that this would be considered a logical conclusion, given that a captured spring buffer is designed to satisfy a complaint with a working system, rather than solving any actual problems of function. The std buffer has it's merits, it's a cheap, simple and reliable system, but that's not to say it's the best possible solution to the problem. Other solutions may be more expensive and complicated but they may be a better solution depending upon the need or application. That's my abbreviated answer. I want to challenge myself and try something different. I'm learning a hell of a lot more by trying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 42 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Please explain what you already understand then - spill it. I want to know what you know/understand. I need to see where you stand on this, and why, in order to work with what you know and understand. I feel like you're baiting me. I'm not sure what you want me to say. It' pretty simple. There are various spring rates and buffer weights depending upon application. The ammo you use, barrel, length and style, gas system, bolt carrier group and weight, buffer tube length, silencers, all effect what spring and buffer you need to use. The buffers are pretty simple using a number of steel or tungsten weights inside to determine the weight. Their properties of the buffer work sort of like a dead blow hammer, but I'd still like to know the theory behind why the engineers thought that was necessary or the best solution. I'm guessing that the physics suggest that you need x amount of mass to slow down the energy created by the explosion in front of the BCG, but I also think this could be accomplished by using a shock absorber (for example) instead of a dead weight. Which brings me back to my original question about what the suggested buffer weight difference is between using a standard or titanium BCG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 This is interesting: https://nemoarms.com/product/large-frame-recoil-reduction-bolt-carrier-group-and-buffer-kit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Snow_N_Surf said: that's not to say it's the best possible solution to the problem. What exactly IS the problem? It seems like you're trying to invent a more round wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Snow_N_Surf said: Which brings me back to my original question about what the suggested buffer weight difference is between using a standard or titanium BCG? I’ll make this easy. Hydraulic buffers aren’t designed for general use. They are meant to be set up and tailored to a certain load and that’s it. It will work fine for that purpose. A standard set up offers you flexibility for all ammo. As for you titanium question I think start with the Armalite system and you can go to lighter buffer using standard ar15 buffers. It’s a simple and efficient design that works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 19 hours ago, Snow_N_Surf said: I feel like you're baiting me. Not in the least. I feel like I'm trying to explain something that you have zero interest in listening to, based on your knowledge that you have. I need to know where you stand, what you think you know, and the why on it all - just in order to have a conversation with you. You're blowing off everything that is given to you, and you rail off on some tangent about this and that - that don't matter. I want to know why it matters to you - and why you think it'll make a difference. I need to be on your level of what you understand, just to have a conversation with you about this shiit. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, Snow_N_Surf said: I'm not sure what you want me to say. It' pretty simple. There are various spring rates and buffer weights depending upon application. The ammo you use, barrel, length and style, gas system, bolt carrier group and weight, buffer tube length, silencers, all effect what spring and buffer you need to use. The buffers are pretty simple using a number of steel or tungsten weights inside to determine the weight. Their properties of the buffer work sort of like a dead blow hammer, but I'd still like to know the theory behind why the engineers thought that was necessary or the best solution. I'm guessing that the physics suggest that you need x amount of mass to slow down the energy created by the explosion in front of the BCG, but I also think this could be accomplished by using a shock absorber (for example) instead of a dead weight. Which brings me back to my original question about what the suggested buffer weight difference is between using a standard or titanium BCG? 1. You just described the PERFECT Race Gun. One that is tailored for zero felt recoil and muzzle movement, to stay on target, and win matches, with one specific load that's only made up to meet a Power Factor threshold, and be accurate. 2. Shock absorber? That's your recoil spring. 3. Ti vs. standard BCG? Is the Ti BCG 4oz less? You'd need a buffer 4oz heavier, if you're building a reliable gun that shoot any load that you throw in it (besides subs). If you want to build a Race Gun, just do it. When it doesn't function, we'll figure out what went wrong. When you finally find ammo that runs through it - good luck switching loads. RaceGun away, though - build that thing. I build my Large Frame ARs to run on any load that I run through them, unsuppressed - and still run if I toss a buddy's suppressor on there. Weird, though. They all have the same recoil system designs. That would include an 18.5" .308 Win AR, a 16" .308 Win AR, a 13.5" .308 Win AR, a 12.5" .308 Win AR, a 16" .338 Fed AR, a 20" .260 Rem AR, another 18" .308 Win AR, and a 16" .358 Win AR. One of these days, I'll add an 18" 7mm-08 AR to the pile, and I'll run the same recoil system design, that I know works. Edited February 25, 2021 by 98Z5V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 14 hours ago, edgecrusher said: I’ll make this easy. Hydraulic buffers aren’t designed for general use. They are meant to be set up and tailored to a certain load and that’s it. It will work fine for that purpose. A standard set up offers you flexibility for all ammo. As for you titanium question I think start with the Armalite system and you can go to lighter buffer using standard ar15 buffers. It’s a simple and efficient design that works Thank you, That makes a lot of sense. I've been turning to the Youtube channel: SmallArmsSolutions as a resource and that adds a perspective to the issue concerning hydraulic buffers that he didn't mention. As far as the TI BCG, my understanding was you may need to add weight to the buffer to compensate for it. I may be remembering this incorrectly, being that I did the research before building my AR-15. And that was my concern, no point in spending a bunch of money to lighten the BCG if you have to add some of that weight back to the buffer in compensation. That's one of the main reasons why I'm looking into other buffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Snow_N_Surf said: As far as the TI BCG, my understanding was you may need to add weight to the buffer to compensate for it. Well Holy Shiit! That comes down to MY proven theory that you need a certain amount of reciprocating mass! ENOUGH ASS TO CONTROL THE MASS!!! Guess I got that one right, yeah?... Edited February 25, 2021 by 98Z5V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, 98Z5V said: 3. Ti vs. standard BCG? Is the Ti BCG 4oz less? You'd need a buffer 4oz heavier, if you're building a reliable gun that shoot any load that you throw in it (besides subs). I thought I stated that - had to go back and check, just to make sure. Yep. I stated that. Hope that "YouTube Research" works out for you. Your best resource for no-bullshiit information is RIGHT HERE. Make sure you tell YouTube that, too - let them all know... Edited February 25, 2021 by 98Z5V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 3 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Not in the least. I feel like I'm trying to explain something that you have zero interest in listening to, based on your knowledge that you have. I need to know where you stand, what you think you know, and the why on it all - just in order to have a conversation with you. You're blowing off everything that is given to you, and you rail off on some tangent about this and that - that don't matter. I want to know why it matters to you - and why you think it'll make a difference. I need to be on your level of what you understand, just to have a conversation with you about this shiit. That's all. So here's where I'm coming from. When you said that the Armalite kit IS the buffer solution, hands down, game over...I agreed. You sold me, I got it, I believe you, I don't doubt you. And from there, I moved on to trying to better understand the application that is the 308-AR. I'm new to building guns. Actually started out wanting to buy a 1911 and ended up building an AR, because I couldn't find the 1911 that I wanted and ended up building an AR, lol. I want to learn, so don't mistake my questioning your advice with not understanding and taking it. If I have further questions though, I'm not the type of person to hold back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Snow_N_Surf said: So here's where I'm coming from. When you said that the Armalite kit IS the buffer solution, hands down, game over...I agreed. You sold me, I got it, I believe you, I don't doubt you. And from there, I moved on to trying to better understand the application that is the 308-AR. I'm new to building guns. Actually started out wanting to buy a 1911 and ended up building an AR, because I couldn't find the 1911 that I wanted and ended up building an AR, lol. I want to learn, so don't mistake my questioning your advice with not understanding and taking it. If I have further questions though, I'm not the type of person to hold back. But, you have been holding back - and pitching ideas that we now know are from YouTube. I've written about this so many times here, it's not even funny. Proven my points, time and time again. That's not on YouTube, but only here, so you must have missed it all. You've argued this thread the whole time, with nothing but speculation and bullshiit. Now, we know that's all from YouTube. If you STICK to proven designs... you'll find that the stupid questions, and arguments, quickly go away. When you pull the trigger, and the gun works - you'll see the difference. Until then - stay in fantasy-world, keep believing what you want, and keep eating the bullshiit that's out there. When you want to FIRE your gun, and really make it work - come back, and give details on what's NOT working. We'll fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: I thought I stated that - had to go back and check, just to make sure. Yep. I stated that. Hope that "YouTube Research" works out for you. Your best resource for no-bullshiit information is RIGHT HERE. Make sure you tell YouTube that, too - let them all know... As if you are the God knowing all of the internet. Sorry, this is the bathroom wall of society, I take everything I read or see with a grain of salt. You have to prove yourself to me just like anybody on youtube. I don't easily recommend any forum, channel, ect. You have to prove to me that you know enough that I'm willing to recommend you. This forum and it's members are not the end all authority, nor am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Snow_N_Surf said: When you said that the Armalite kit IS the buffer solution, hands down, game over...I agreed. I did state that, directly. 3 hours ago, 98Z5V said: I build my Large Frame ARs to run on any load that I run through them, unsuppressed - and still run if I toss a buddy's suppressor on there. Weird, though. They all have the same recoil system designs. That would include an 18.5" .308 Win AR, a 16" .308 Win AR, a 13.5" .308 Win AR, a 12.5" .308 Win AR, a 16" .338 Fed AR, a 20" .260 Rem AR, another 18" .308 Win AR, and a 16" .358 Win AR. One of these days, I'll add an 18" 7mm-08 AR to the pile, and I'll run the same recoil system design, that I know works. It works in these guns, that I stated that I have - and they run. Any more questions on whether or not it sucks, ir it works? I don't know how many rounds I have to send down range to prove it to you, but if you start asking for more proof, I'll start charging you for the ammo - with videos provided, for your comfort - of course. Get your wallet out, if you doubt what I've stated. I'm in for that. Pay me, and I'll give you definitive video proof of what I'm saying. Not that I haven't done that already, all over this board. The information is already here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Just now, Snow_N_Surf said: As if you are the God knowing all of the internet. Sorry, this is the bathroom wall of society, I take everything I read or see with a grain of salt. You have to prove yourself to me just like anybody on youtube. I don't easily recommend any forum, channel, ect. You have to prove to me that you know enough that I'm willing to recommend you. This forum and it's members are not the end all authority, nor am I. Bring it. I welcome it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Self-Implosion in... 3... 2... 1... Wait for it... He's gonna pop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, 98Z5V said: Bring it. I welcome it. Alright. I messaged you privately but if you want to hash it out right here I will. Just confirm that what I say will remain public and you will not make sure to ban me because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Snow_N_Surf said: I don't easily recommend any forum, channel, ect. You have to prove to me that you know enough that I'm willing to recommend you. For What It's Worth (FWIW) - I don't ever give a fuk if you ever recommend me, or not. I'm okay without your recommendation, for the rest of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Snow_N_Surf said: Alright. I messaged you privately but if you want to hash it out right here I will. Just confirm that what I say will remain public and you will not make sure to ban me because of it. I don't ban anyone. Ever. I prefer that nobody here gets banned - ever. They need to stay here, and live it out, like a man. Learn from mistakes, and all that. Stick around, hash it out, and learn how to converse like real adults. Sadly, that's not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_N_Surf Posted February 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, 98Z5V said: I don't ban anyone. Ever. I prefer that nobody here gets banned - ever. They need to stay here, and live it out, like a man. Learn from mistakes, and all that. Stick around, hash it out, and learn how to converse like real adults. Sadly, that's not always the case. Agreed. And this conversation has nothing to do with the topic. If you'd like to discuss it we can in PM or by other means as my PM suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 You won't see a PM discussion from me - not with you. You want to discuss the finer merits of this gun system, then you'll do it right here, in your own thread. You can either communicate publicly, like humans are supposed to be able to do - or you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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