BigNate Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 (edited) A friend sent this to me and I thought I'd share it here... It's not an Armalite, or Knights Armorment or DD - but if it does not function I bet they fix or replace it - or , for the price, you can fix / improve it and be ahead of the game. PSA Blem AR-10 Yes - you get what you pay for. On the other hand - it's about 70% of what I just spent on parts (and on top of may spend add S/H and a few things I had on hand) and less than 50% of the list price of the parts that I bought to build one. I have PSA AR-15s that work well. Picture for the future when the ad is gone... Edited January 9 by BigNate Reorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpete Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 (edited) Going by all the PSA 308 ARs that @98Z5V has helped fix. All of them are blems whether they admit it or not. But I get your point, its cheap! Edited January 10 by dpete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, BigNate said: I have PSA AR-15s that work well. Everyone and their brother that manufactures an AR15 has the Colt TDP to follow. You can't fuk up an AR15 too bad, the plans have been outed for decades upon decades. These big ones are a different animal. No pattern to follow, and PSA definitely doesn't follow any of the 3 common patterns that are out there, that generally work. 18" midlength barrel - the gas port diameter IS gonna be wrong, and need to be drilled out. The entire recoil system IS going to need to be replaced. Your buddy needs to know that going into it, and plan that extra money into that "great price". Who really knows what the "blem" actually is - will it be cosmetic, or functional? There might be more money involved in making that thing run, besides paying someone to punch the gas port and buying a complete recoil system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 And it will need a proper length gas tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, shooterrex said: And it will need a proper length gas tube. Great point, Rex - I forgot that they can't get the gas tube length right, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNate Posted January 10 Author Report Share Posted January 10 (edited) 13 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Everyone and their brother that manufactures an AR15 has the Colt TDP to follow. You can't fuk up an AR15 too bad, the plans have been outed for decades upon decades. These big ones are a different animal. No pattern to follow, and PSA definitely doesn't follow any of the 3 common patterns that are out there, that generally work. 18" midlength barrel - the gas port diameter IS gonna be wrong, and need to be drilled out. The entire recoil system IS going to need to be replaced. Your buddy needs to know that going into it, and plan that extra money into that "great price". Who really knows what the "blem" actually is - will it be cosmetic, or functional? There might be more money involved in making that thing run, besides paying someone to punch the gas port and buying a complete recoil system. @98Z5V - So - what would you expect it to cost to make the gun above function reliably (or - if the answer is "no clue - too many and too varied problems" - I want to hear that)... Are the issues mentioned in this thread consistent (undersized gas port in the barrel, issue with gas tube length, replace the buffer and spring) - or is it likely that there are other problems as well? The "fine print" says that the blem is cosmetic only ("...may include, but is not limited to, forging marks under the finish, scratches, slight variation in the finish color coat..."). If they are looking at fixing those problems, I'm thinking that they'd be somewhere between $75 - $150 in "fixes" to make it function well ($15 gas tube, $40 buffer/spring, and somewhere between $50-$100 to have a gunsmith open up the gas port assuming that they don't want to buy a carbide bit or reamer and do it themselves). When I look at what is out there (complete guns) the only things I see even close to that price range are from companies that I've never heard of (may be good, may be bad, no clue)... then there's Ruger at about $1000, S&W at about $1100, and from there - anything from a name that I recognize starts at about $1500 and goes up from there. Building one with "good enough" parts, sourced today, looks like a $1000+ exercise. So - if $759 gets you an imperfect base gun from which to build and they can make it reliable for another $100 - it might still get them into the game... that's my thought anyway... Am I thinking about this wrong? Edited January 10 by BigNate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 If you can find it the Armalite recoil system for carbines is about $80.00 The gas tube is about $20.00 Measuring the gas port is easy if you have numbered drill bits. Drilling out the gas port is also easy. My PA10 came w/a rifle recoil system and stock. So I didn't need to change that. My gas port was OK. Never measured it or drilled it because the gun ran. I did replace the gas tube w/the proper length tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNate Posted January 10 Author Report Share Posted January 10 (edited) 8 minutes ago, shooterrex said: If you can find it the Armalite recoil system for carbines is about $80.00 The gas tube is about $20.00 Measuring the gas port is easy if you have numbered drill bits. Drilling out the gas port is also easy. My PA10 came w/a rifle recoil system and stock. So I didn't need to change that. My gas port was OK. Never measured it or drilled it because the gun ran. I did replace the gas tube w/the proper length tube. Thanks for this... I'm really struggling with how the gun could / would pass any function test with the wrong length tube? Is it just that they built a batch of their own tubes and had a manufacturing defect resulting in slightly too short / too long tubes which cause issues? I can't imagine that they used the "wrong length" (like a carbine length on a mid-length barrel)? I also noted that the current PA10 has an adjustable gas block - does yours? Edited January 10 by BigNate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 The midlength AR15 gas tube is what they were/are using . The Armalite carbine gas tube is about 5/16" longer. The original tube extended in to the cam cutout. Just not to the middle or just past the middle of the cam cutout. My rifle had a front sight. Now just a gas block. I also installed a rail in place of the mid length plastic handguards. The rifle ran from the factory. I chose to change things around. The gas tube swap is the only thing that I really needed to do since I had a rifle recoil system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNate Posted January 10 Author Report Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, shooterrex said: The midlength AR15 gas tube is what they were/are using . The Armalite carbine gas tube is about 5/16" longer. The original tube extended in to the cam cutout. Just not to the middle or just past the middle of the cam cutout. My rifle had a front sight. Now just a gas block. I also installed a rail in place of the mid length plastic handguards. The rifle ran from the factory. I chose to change things around. The gas tube swap is the only thing that I really needed to do since I had a rifle recoil system. Thanks much... that helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 It's more than just a buffer and spring. They don't machine the receiver extensions correctly Ifor carbine recoil systems), so to solve this they have reliefs built into the lower receiver forging, so you can't tell if your BCG is slamming into your lower receiver on recoil. Their uppers and lowers are proprietary, so that's a show stopper if your friend ever wanted to build another caliber upper to mate to that lower. There's an entire list of issues with these guns, over years, and a whole section on the issues and fixes, right here on the board. It's under-recoil (carbine setups) so bad that they are including the adjustable gas block on them now. The cheap recoil system that they put on there is on purpose, to save money, so the logical other shortcut is to under-size the gas port for that reason. The too-short gas tubes are because they are lazy, and just stick AR15 gas tubes in them. All in all, it's not a bargain, because you need to spend time and money diagnosing the issues, find out solutions, and either buy more parts, send it out for gunsmith work, or figure it out on your own. It's more than just a couple different parts here and there - it's time, money, ammo, patience, and finding the solutions and getting them done. Street price on an Armalite DEF10 rifle is about $1k. It'll work right out of the box, with a correct recoil system and gas system. That's another $250 over what that PSA lists for, but what is your time in research and failed testing, money for future parts and shipping to fix this thing, and ammo worth? Check out the PSA section here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 @BigNate, Primary Arms just put the Ruger SFAR on sale - pimp this to your buddy. Far, far better than a Blem PSA. Nevermind, that bastard went out of stock FAST,at $989. At least it's an example of the deals out there, that can be had. https://www.primaryarms.com/ruger-sfar-7-62-nato-ar-10-rifle-16in-barrel-20-round-magazine?trk_msg=81C3JKRDEOGK1BPSIP66CR5B7C&trk_contact=8V0L65B89JG3CKL2PPP2IG35AC&trk_sid=40K2FJICEF6247GALSPD0DIAGG&trk_link=G5309UI3L4FK16UUI434GB1VP8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/149350/ruger+sfar+7.62+.308+win.+rfl+16+inch+20rd. 20" same price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNate Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 Thanks gents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 My psa runs and shoots. I wouldn't buy another unless it was really discounted. The only parts still from the factory are the receivers, and rifle recoil spring and buffer. Not that all those parts needed replaced I wanted to change things to suit me. I can build more and come close to the "bargin" price if I watch sales and don't get in a rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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